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Serious time part two: I think the general issue here is an attitude/mindset issue. I know what you're thinking. Either I'm shit-talking the mods or the users. Back in 20-whathefuckever when "autism" was OT's favorite word, I might have said it was both. Now, I have to say it's mostly the moderation strategy. To you, we must seem like a bunch of rowdy children asking for picture threads and making fun of each other and rubbing our snot in King's face. Sure, I get it. You want to avoid conflict, keep everything classy, keep up appearances and all that. To us, though, you seem like children yourselves for seemingly ignoring the entire purpose of a forum and hoping that it will be filled with sunshine and rainbows and well though-out paragraph-form political lectures. In a section where most people have only first languages and a love for anime t1ts in common, what do you expect? Moreover, what do you want? What we want is to d1ck around, have fun, call each other shitheads, relax, make fun of my music taste, and go on with our days. What, in particular, bothers you about that? Before, I could see why OT needed the moderation. Now? Absolutely not. I haven't see one thing that I've considered offensive on OT this year, and I say that trying to look at it from an unbiased perspective. Really, what have we done? The only thing I can think of is the ritualistic shitting on new users, and if you cited that as the reason for the issues, I would understand. But you don't. No, you don't give enough of a shit to intervene on their behalf, or tell people to stop bugging them, or talk to them yourself; therefore, it must not be that. So I ask again, what is it? Is it the "shitposting"? I put quotation marks around that for two reasons; one, I'm a snarky black woman online, and two, it's not even shitposting. Since Darkshade linked Urbandictionary in his definition of shitposting, I'll give you mine: "top kek" "lol" "hahah" "(Something someone else said with a ^ underneath)" "( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)" To be fair, we do those things sometimes. Maybe, at most, 5% of the time. Those are shitposts; if they're the entire content of a forum, the forum suffers. They mean nothing, and nothing can really be used to respond to them. They kill conversations like a vicious, Taco Bell-fueled mach three shart. Funny thing is, you don't hide those. Rightly so, I think; it's hardly worth the bother of clicking. The "shitposts" you hide tend to actually be part of the discussion. One-sentence joke replies aren't shitposting. They're jokes. Your definition of shitposting is "jokes." Your definition of shitposting is what makes up 75% of real-life conversation. We can't all be Shakespeare all the time. Even I can only muster up one of these textual coilers if I feel the need. I think you know that. I think you point at the shitposting rule as a scapegoat to hide things that might look bad upon you, or that you simply don't like. To hide what we consider an entertaining discussion because you consider it crude, rude, or simply a bother to deal with. So how should you moderate OT, in order to maintain the perfect balance between everyone being pissed off at you guys and us making Cleveland Steamer threads? I think the moderation of OT should be guided by these main points: - It's about fun. Remember, this is OT. This is a place for fun and making fun, not your average liberal arts college bulletin board. - Only lock if it's against the rules, not because you think it might be later. That decision can be made if or when it develops into such a situation. If you could predict the future, you wouldn't be moderating a pokemon forum. - What you think and what we think may be different; That's not a bad thing. A difference of opinion is not the end of the world. - Stop hiding things without telling us. There's nothing more annoying than having something you made disappear without a trace--and without any indication it was there, or any notification to you that it's been wiped off the face of the internet. I know it looks cleaner than a blank or edited post, but any way that notifies the user what they did wrong would be much better. - Friends poking fun at friends is not conflict. Best post discussion. Hidden immediately because we can't make fun of each other. Show me someone whose feelings have honestly been hurt by this forum and I'll show you my taint. - Shitposting is not short-posting. Nor is it joke posting. I understand it's a very subjective thing, but if we're willing to quote it and/or like it, it can't be that bad. - The rules were not made for you to use as an excuse. Be realistic. If it doesn't break the rules, or cause unnecessary strife, don't cause unnecessary strife by locking/hiding it. - It's okay to ask. Be that asking someone the intention of their thread, their post, or their dank meme, this could clear up a lot of miscommunication issues. For instance, if someone had asked Heimann if he meant his thread to be mean... - Have discretion. I can't say much about this. It's all up to you. Just remember, the forum is ostensibly here for us to have fun in, not just for you to be able to look at without seeing any bad words. - This forum does NOT represent PokeMMO as a whole. Some of the issues seem to be over the fact that OT is not presentable. To whom? The three children from General that visit there every year? Really, when your in-game chat is mostly people talking about weed and making cancer jokes before periodically descending into a "who can be the most racist" competition, I think you have bigger things to worry about than us poking fun at each other. - Have a sense of humour. Sometimes, things can't be helped. - Don't ban alts until they do something deserving of it. I know this is just as unlikely as the one above it, but c'mon. You preach about expanding your userbase, and yet every time an old user comes back, you decide that their mild-mannered politeness ABSOLUTELY CANNOT STAND FOR ANY LONGER and ban them again for something they did two years ago. If you want a bigger userbase, stop pushing them away. --- I guess my point is that I'm politely telling you to grow up and realize that people aren't 100% constructive or serious all the time. In our case, we're almost never serious. Does that mean we can be a bit of a handful? Yes. Does that mean you should have a panic attack and clamp your massive moderater thighs down upon our heads any time it looks like we're having too much fun? Although I do like me some watermelon-crushing thighs, the answer is no. I figured that would be obvious, but recent events suggest it's not. Hence the great text wall of China you see here. I know my view is biased. I know yours is too. A happy medium is possible; call me a cynic, but I think the best chance of that is to have OT moderated by someone who knows OT enough to call their shots well, yet is polite enough to not let it degenerate into a circlejerk of Republican senate proportions. No offense meant to any of the mods here as people; I'm sure you're all very nice. As mods, you're a little overboard right now. If you really want to, you can make the new OT into something it shouldn't be. Make it a place tailored exactly to your taste, not ours. Make it a place for long-winded, polite, intelligent posts only. After all, the Writing forum is quite popular, isn't it?

There was nothing wrong with OT except the moderation. Seriously. We aren't all children who need their eyes shielded from everything. Moderate when something NEEDS to be moderated, not when it MIGHT NEED to be moderated. If somebody wants to make an OT Best Posts thread, and you THINK somebody MIGHT get upset from being posted their without permission, DON'T DO SHIT WAIT FOR THEM TO COMPLAIN ABOUT IT, IT'S THEIR JOB AS HUMAN BEINGS AND USERS OF THIS SERVICE TO COMPLAIN TO MODERATORS WHEN THEY DON'T WANT UNWANTED ATTENTION BROUGHT UPON THEM Like, you don't have to be at everyone's beck and call, you can lock threads that are clearly toxic and insulting users, or shit that is NSFW. Just PLEASE stop treating OT like it's some precious fucking glass sculpture ready to be dropped.

I LITERALLY LEAVE FOR 12 HOURS AND YOU LOSE OT

i guess u guys went off topic or something

mfw read this as "Shitpost Forest" at first

Oh my god that was the longest not 5 days.

Does Chris Brown run that subforum ?

it didnt so we're forced to live with our creepy uncle that nobody likes; The Round Table.

This is like when you stay in a hotel, and it's really nice and cozy but no matter how many mints they leave on your pillow, it's just not your bed.

it doesn't feel like home

First suggestion. If a thread is deemed 'questionable' with the content inside PM the OP and discuss changes instead of locking/hiding the post.

Deleting all threads so we can only have a POYThread, thanks daft.

50 dollars on the Alpha female

allow me to moderate it, I have experience moderating on this forum and I understand when a post is a joke/discussion and isn't going too far [Spoiler] then ot can become the circle jerk it deserves to be [/spoiler]

POYT are really usefull for forming beep bonds beetwen members of the comunity, it also makes easier for people to get accepted, making said comunity better for everyone Think about it mods

I don't know why you're so fixated on the alt thing. It wasn't explicitly stated that you could only trade it once. The idea isn't perfect, obviously; Allowing very easy access to a specific pokemon for only one week is definitely not an ideal solution. But honestly, the state of genderless breeding right now is beyond terrible, for basically no good reason. The argument that not everything should be equally difficult to make is a valid one, and it works for every pokemon other than genderless breeding. Some pokemon are slightly more difficult to breed than other ones, to an extent, sure. But Genderless pokemon are basically 20x more difficult to breed than everything else for no good reason. It's one thing to have one pokemon be slightly more difficult to breed, it's another to have a group of pokemon that are SIGNIFICANTLY more difficult to breed than everything else for no reason other than the misfortune that they were originally labeled by Nintendo as not having a gender. And that's the biggest issue, the fact that it's so arbitrary. It's not like we're saying "oh, these pokemon are harder to breed because they're really stong", or "they're rare in the wild, they'll be hard to breed"; They're hard to breed for no reason other than the fact they were genderless in the original games, and a workaround to make them simpler to breed was either pushed off to the side by the devs or overlooked. In other words, how difficult they are to breed isn't really justifiable; they're a group of pokemon that are arbitrarily more difficult to breed than others. If the point of the new breeding system was to make it less-RNG based while avoiding the endless cloning factory so that there's a system where players can create reasonably good pokemon without negatively impacting the economy, why are there a group of pokemon that you need godlike RNG to be able to properly breed? It's not like these pokemon are special; I mean, if a Zapdos (once legends come out) was more difficult to get in PokeMMO than breeding a good Snorlax, that's the kind of disparity in difficulty I can understand to an extent. The genderless problem is 100% arbitrary and is unhealthy to the game, especially with how already ditto centric breeding already is. The idea in this thread isn't exactly flawless, but it's one thing to point out flaws to a solution and it's another thing to try and pretend the problem doesn't even exist.

now that I am at my comp and not on my phone kinda annoying they plan to try and keep the entire OT subforum in like, 1-2 threads while they do whatever they are doing to the subforum (with so far, no communication as to what that is) for whatever amount of time they're doing it. I realized this morning I wanted to post it "Stuff that Brightens your Day" as well as 1-2 other topics (like I generally do in the morning/the first time I peruse OT) but that won't happen I suppose edit: also when will they learn that lack of communication as to what they're changing isn't going to make people happy lmfAOOOOO like jesus christ

This post is essentially feedback and suggestions for both concerned staff and OT posters. I think that off topic has been moderated in a "one child is bad they all are punished" way for a tad too long. I am not blaming any one moderator for this, and I also see the contribution the OT community has to this. I don't think it is correct that an OT poster can go into a thread they dislike and get it locked/ruin it for everyone (I have personally done this in the past and knew very well what I was doing). When we have controversial threads in OT then we are usually approached with the "If you're good you can keep it, if not then I will take it away from EVERYONE" approach. I understand this is tempting because you want us to behave and you also want to make your jobs as moderators easier but this type of relationship does not work. Pick your rules for OT, follow them to a tee (as much as humanly possible), AND make them clear. I have witnessed a couple warning points in OT that stem from innocent jokes among friends, I don't personally think this should be occurring if no one feels hurt/upset unless they're posting gore/porn/etc. Let's just make OT rules clear and have them followed consistently. Put two moderators in OT so they can discuss back and forth and try to make the best choice possible. Two people with strong opinions who aren't "Go with the flow" and who can communicate and work well together. Communication with the posters is good too, and I commend Daft for that. Both OT posters and moderators/globals need to work on communication. Daft was doing well in this regards because he would communicate and discuss. No moderator is perfect, especially when they're tossed into OT as a newer CM. The people who post in OT need to be forgiving and understanding and also realize that at the end of the day if we don't get exactly what we want we can adjust to that. It's impossible to have every single person happy. In terms of communication I see no reason why a moderator should go into OT and tell us we are all negative and that they avoid OT because they would rather do other staff things, it's not constructive and it's lumping everyone into the same boat. I won't say we are never negative, etc, but still, it's just not a necessary thing to say (just like we have said some very unnecessary things to moderators). Moving forward we should try and SOLVE things instead of concentrating on who is right or wrong, and punishing them. It's absurd. Would we rather sort out issues or complain about them? I know I was laughing my little butt off last night seeing everyone be angry but waking up to OT being completely gone was a bit of an annoyance. It really just went along with the whole "if some of you are bad then it's gone" concept I mentioned earlier. I'm just going to summarize things I have said and add a few things: 1) Hire two moderators and make sure they're people who can work together and communicate effectively. I want Daft back because I adore him but give him some help ! 2) Punish offenders and not the entire group - yes we are friends for the most part but that doesn't mean we are all involved 3) Moderate controversial threads accordingly as opposed to locking them up (yes, some may need to be locked if they're breaking rules like full of gore etc) 4) Let us joke and have fun - encourage people who feel harassed to speak to moderators, and if harassment has occurred then deal with the people involved ONLY 5) Shitposting - If you don't want us to shit post then DEFINE what it is you don't want us to do. When you say don't shit post I have no idea what you want me to avoid. I also think casual posting is absolutely fine - although I am sure some moderators would disagree. 6) The OT community needs to stop with the witch hunts and take some anger management classes (jk but seriously). You want a SOLUTION not conflict, right? Although conflict is fucking hilarious let's just not go overboard. [s]7) Make King a moderator so she can be popular. [/s] Also I would like to ask is there a chance that you won't be bringing OT back? It seems crucial from a forum moderator perspective but I never can tell what you guys are up to when stuff like this happens. And that is enough seriousness for me today.

w-wait let me get this straight, that is an online digimon game with digimon world 1 mechanics ?

I mean I literally go to sleep for the night, wake up a few hours later, and you guys burned down the house.

We are going here! not srs just waiting for updates [spoiler][/spoiler]

"Lets shut down off topic for shit posting and make a temp thread for the posters in shit post general! "

HELP THERE'S TEKKEN IN MY DIGIMON

Give me my like count back

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvXncLFXel0[/media]

So, I'm not a person who really uses the OT section at all, but I may have an idea. What if there were a warning for each forum user before entering off topic? Would only have to be viewed once, or every so often, and would simply warn the user that what they are diving into may not be the most heavily moderated content on the forums. That way, staff covers their butts. Daft gets some work lifted off of his shoulders. And OT posters would have more freedom to post what they want.

Yeah I remember when I was a mod I didn't get into fights with the community about how to do my job because I knew how to do it. Granted I didn't moderate OT but I wouldn't have any issue moderating OT then or today. Good times though. I got to be mean to Plizard all of the time. Streams were fun.

Second suggestion. Deeply consider if what we're getting in trouble for is negatively impacting your forums. Is a user spamming scat porn? Sure, let's take care of that. Is the user opening a secondary relationship opinion thread, half-jokingly? Maybe we just let that one go. I've heard a million times the argument of not allowing certain off topic posts, but why? You're keeping a player base, we're having fun, contributing to the community, and no harm is done.

Are we looking for honest suggestions, or ones that mods won't disagree with? Not trying to be rude, given the posts made by mods before it was closed, it's a valid question.

Because when we consider swords and armors in other MMO's (gonna use runescape, cause it's the easiest) it is clearly defined what is the best armor for each role. With pokemon, that is nowhere near the case. It isn't like Gengar is Rune armor and Salamence is Dragon Armor, thus they shouldn't be treated differently. Rare equipment in other games are rare and expensive generally because they are good and op. Are genderless pokemon good and OP? No. So why are you forcing them to put in so much more effort to walk on stage with the other great gendered pokemon? See, you can make a good pokemon team without using genderless pokemon and still compete. Even if your team has genderless pokemon, it doesn't mean the team is any better, or any worse. But, if you don full dragon armor, it is certainly better than full Rune armor. Runescape has justified the price and rarity of each armor based on the armor's stats. However, you are trying to justify rarity of pokemon based on, well, "just cause". That's why it's a bad comparison.

Okay, I understand that suggestions to fix genderless breeding might seem odd to you Rachel, since you don't acknowledge the problem at hand. I was gonna make a long post explaining it over again, but I think Senile summed it up pretty nicely. Also refer to my posts in this thread: https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/50776-genderless-breeding/, and the post Senile refered to above. If this is not enough evidence for you that there exists a problem here, then I am honestly clueless about what to do. For the suggestion itself, it can easily be tweaked to work better, if that's what people want. Make the pokemon gifts, sure. Instead of having a weekly period, its possible that this trading guy will offer you a random genderless/all-male pokemon for trade, and will not change this offer untill you trade him. There could be an hour long cooldown between everytime he gives a new offer, for example. There are many other ways to make this suggestion work, please don't bash the basic idea. And for the weapons analogy - this game requires you to have pretty much all weapons. In other games better weapons allow you to get rid of the old ones. Of course they have to be harder to obtain, otherwise you would just obtain the most difficult weapon first. The idea of having different difficulty for different spieces for an arbitrary reason is not at all an obviously good idea, and should be justified in another way than a terrible analogy.

Trade a bad one, get a bad genderless in return. What is the problem with making multiple good pokemon, especially if you breed a rare one yourself? The point is to create a level breeding field. I don't know how you can put your hands over your eyes as the community complains about this time and time again: genderless should be as easily obtainable as other pokemon too. Why do we justify the lack of solution through the phrase "some species are harder to breed". You know as well as I do that genderless need natures, IVs and hidden powers. Let's not ignore the fact that some people caught better breeding periods and managed to get their hands on pokemon like 30+ all across Starmies, Magnetons and Hitmonlees. Let's give newer players a chance to catch up other than feeding them the bullshit that if they clinch their teeth hard enough, a perfect ditto will pop up.