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No vote trump

I actually think our current meta is getting worse and worse as time goes by. In couple of months - if not already - it could easily be the worse OU meta I have ever seen in PokeMMO. Like this comment if you agree ^^ (polls are fun, more fun than Snorlax)

I simply enjoy talking to myself. I sometimes need to conversate with someone who understands me. I think it would be a good way to make you note some funny stuff so you won't get mistaken in breeding and shit. Please make it happen.

Details: unlimited players (dont really expect any more than 32, rip unofficials) Lack of officials this week, decided to host a tourny. Don't be shocked it's OU Date and Time: Date: Tuesday September 20th Time: 7pm BST | 8pm CEST | 2pm EDT Registration: Put your ign here now. Ill do role call/ last minute sign ups before we start Location: Silp co ch 7 Clauses: Evasion / Sleep / OHKO / Unique Species / Self-KO / OP Item Tournament Clauses Explained Banned moves: Baton Pass OU Ban List Dragonite | Dugtrio | Gengar | Salamence | Tyranitar | Wobbufet | Blissey Bracket: http://challonge.com/SHOU Prizes: 1st: comp gardevior + 700k 2nd: 300k

Details : Players | 6v6 NU Date and Time : Date: Tonight Time: 9:00 PM EST Location: Hoenn DayCare, Ch 7 Registration : Registrations will happen at the event sight or on forums. Drop dem IGN's Clauses : Sleep/OHKO/Pristine/Species/Hax Item/Evasion/Bag Item/Time/Self KO List of clauses and what they mean Banned Moves : Baton Pass NU Ban List : Dragonite | Dugtrio | Gengar | Salamence | Tyranitar | Wobbufet | Blissey Aerodactyl | Alakazam | Arcanine | Blaziken | Chansey | Charizard | Milotic Cloyster | Dusclops | Espeon | Flygon | Forretress | Gardevoir | Gyarados Heracross | Jolteon | Kingrda | Ludicolo | Magneton | Medicham | Metagross Porygon2 | Rhydon | Skarmory | Slowbro | Snorlax | Starmie | Swampert Tauros | Umbreon | Ursaring | Vaporeon | Venusaur | Weezing | Breloom Hariyama | Linoone | Machamp | Marowak | Slaking | Houndoom | Dodrio Altaria | Ampharos | Armaldo | Azumarill | Clefable | Cradily | Donphan Hitmonlee | | Nidoqeen | Zangoose | Kangaskhan | Lanturn | Scizor Manectric | Nidoking | Omastar | Pikachu | Sceptile | Slowking | Sneasel Steelix | Swellow | Tentacruel | Vileplume | Jynx | Houndoom | Quagsire Crawdaunt | Hypno | Crobat | Exeggutor | Haunter | Miltank Meganium | Fereligatr | Typhlosion Prize: 1st place IVS [ 27,21,27,28,20,31] +600k 2nd Place 300k 3rd Place 150k

I'm not sure a laxless meta will be more stall-centered than the one we are currently seeing. Chansey is a wonderfull special wall but its options are limited a lot. Which isn't the case of Snorlax. Chansey has basically two moves changing : or toxic or Twave. And when seeing the type of team you're facing, you can quite easily guess what is the move. If you fail, then it only costs you a heal bell or having a mon para'd/tox'd. Whereas Snorlax has, like stated many times before, the ability to run everything to catch his counters off guard and kill them. As a consequence, your switches on lax are severly reduced to walls to check the moveset and even when you know what it runs, offensive mons have huge difficulties to switch in. On the other hand, Chansey opens the door for many offensive mons. The first are obvioulsy nearly every physical and mixt attackers who can setup on Chansey. Others are special sweepers that have a recovery (growth venu, growth jolt, block cm slowbro, gardevoir, etc.) which have proven their effectiveness many times. When played with Wish, strong specs attackers paired with a set up physical sweeper will give real troubles to Chansey too as it can't heal itself without giving you a chance to setup. And finally, if Chansey runs twave, it won't be as effective against stall. So I don't really see how Chansey promotes a stall meta when it offers really more open windows for offensive mons. My personnal experience of this game is that I've never been able to play as offensively in OU as during the "Chansey-meta". It's a meta where i used to see a lot of new sets working pretty well and not as much based on rng as it is now. Every playstyle offered its possibilities and it wasn't more stall then it is right now. That said, i don't see how the argument of the bad players not being able to beat Chansey unless ppstalling is an effective argument. First, because it's just a personnal assumption based on a previous meta where mixt attackers weren't as viable as they are now and where we didn't have specs and life orbs. And secondly, because it's one of the rule of tiering that we shouldn't keep something in the tiers because something else would be problematic. And finally, i prefer seeing a good player pp stalling and winning cause he's better than seeing a game based on bets about lax's moveset and paras.

@Imperial uguu just delete some damn mail you aint that important deadass

HP Fire venu, timid or modest please.

For me the meta looks like that: A poke to counter lax appears, becomes good at it (Rhydon). Snorlax adapts to it and fucks you over in official because your team scouted the opponet's main Snorlax counter and Snorlax used Surf. Get rekt. Another poke appears (Dusclops). Snorlax adapts. Uses Sub and Crunch. Another poke appears (Skarm). Snorlax adapts, uses Fire Blast or flamethrower. Sure Snorlax can't run all the moves at once but he really does not fucking have to when scouting in this game is so easy and not discouraged at all. All he needs is a proper set against a previously scouted enemy. Matchmaking is a different story but we all know that it's the tournaments that really matter, and regardless, Snorlax is a problem in matchmaking as well. And obviously keeps spamming paraslam everywhere, paralyzing and haxing every poke not immune to it, seriously deciding the outcome of the match. I even described my example of how my Snorlax screwed over my enemy thanks to paralyze and hax. Besides I've seen a fucking whole lot of battles where people just sacked their entire party to set up their curselax at the end and win with it, for me it became way too good not to use and it causes problems to literally every player. I've watched the replays that Jim, Nik and Gbweak posted and I'm fucking disgusted about this poke to a degree where I belive Snorlax is even more cancerous than a goddamn Dugtrio E: Let's not forget about CB Lax made to pursuit trap and fuck your Starmie sideways, preventing you from spinning

"Those" that's only night

Details: 1v1 OU Tournament Single Elimination Single Battle Level 50 Date + Time: Date: Tomorrow, Monday , 19th Time: 5:00 PM EDT | 9 PM GMT Location: Saffron Karate Dojo, Channel 7 Clauses: Sleep/OHKO/Pristine/Species/Hax Item/Evasion/Bag Item/Time/Self KO List of Clauses and what they mean Tournament Mode will be used for all duels. Banned Moves: Hyper Beam Banned Pokemon: Nothing. Prize: 1st Prize : 1 Million Yen 2nd Prize: a conversation with bestfriends Signups will take place at the tournament Hype.

Sry fellas can't get off in time to make this. I better hear tales of ariados running rampant though

Moved to Unofficial Tournaments because TJ is a nab

Just please stop with these loaded questions. Acting like you can see only one counter-argument against Lax ban isn't only absurd but incredibly arrogant.

just ordered my iphone 7 jet black should arrive around my birthday

I hate the fact that this is the most action I've had all year

@Havsha relationship goalssssssss <3

Oh shit, that post was the 666th so it gotta be true

The reason why I was criticizing your comment wasn't that I find anything wrong with you considering Snorlax Uberworthy as a Pokemon. Heck, it most likely should be. My critique was to point out the kind of ethics in your argumentation was poor. Automatically assuming that the person questioning the Snorlax ban is only doing so to avoid 'stale Chansey metagame' is basically trying to shut down any kind of counter-argument (and therefor discussion) that person has for you when you already assume their counter-argument is going to be bad. The same way I could be asking a loaded question of 'You just hate Snorlax because you cannot teambuild against it?' and that would be a stupid question because instead of listening to what you have to say about the topic itself I just pre-emptively give no credit to your opinion. You also should avoid using words such as 'truth' when it comes to tiering because there are no objective truths what comes to tiering. Just opinions. This is all arbitrary. Also to be Uber it doesn't need to be par with other Ubers, it just needs to make current OU in some notably significant way less playable with it than without it. Does Snorlax do that? At this point a lot seem on board with that so we'll see.

tbh I blame #namedrop =)

But thats the truth. Im only interested in fairness and competitive health for Ou tier. It's true that the pokemon is overpowered for OU . The best counter being Tyranitar , Gengar, and metagross triangle which walls it off entirely. The fact is it's up to par with the other Uber pokemon which Is why I persist in saying let it return uber. I see no other reason to leave it in Ou tier rather than to add more RNG and avoid a chansey meta. An offensive spdef wall like snorlax with a damaging stab move that causes 51% paralysis in a few spams seems incredibly unhealthy. Doesn't milotic with recover and haze vs snorlax with curse body slam rest and return seem like a huge stall fest as the last pokemon out of 6 on each side? Isn't the current health of competitive OU what this discussion is about? The fact stands that snorlax poses a huge threat on multiple levels and its best counters are uber. Something must be done about this.

Tourney in half an hour, be there or be jay

Imo, considering Snorlax leaves little to no place for creativity, the meta can only get worse by becoming stale and utterly booring where skills no longer determine who is the winner of a duel. Once again, I am refering to the fact that unhealthiness is directly related to centralisation in the case of Snorlax and I am also refering to the fact that players will eventually lose interest in playing competitively in PokeMMO since there is nothing competitive about our current meta.

I don't mean to sound salty, so bear with me when I say this: there will be a discussion thread, or at least a number of players posting about how unhealthy a meta dominated by Chansey really is. So whether you are getting hit by 30% Body Slam paralysis or having to dodge Thunderwave spam, it really doesn't matter much. What Snorlax offers to the meta is the ability to strike back with your special defense wall in a variety of different ways. Chansey just flat out has one moveset, swapping between Toxic and Thunderwave as it evades Growth Jolteon and Venusaur. A number of posters have already made it apparent that one of the absolute worst things about a Chansey meta is the fact that the safest switch in to Chansey, is another Chansey. Bleh. Currently, we have one of the most diverse, popular, and fun OU tiers we have ever encountered. We will always have something to complain about, so what's the real problem here? Being unable to account for versatility and having your counter-team counter-teamed, or Snorlax actually being uncompetitive/unhealthy? After reading through most of this thread, I believe it's the former.

Take it Slow, Bro - Round 4: NikhilR vs Maekaaay Star Of The Show Finals: Frags vs lAlejandrol

Oceanic September Tournament Round#3 yaritan vs Bluejim

I would like to see some replays from Official Tournament games in which Snorlax is clearly shown to be unhealthy for the game. Please write the name of the Tournament, round # and the two competing players. Using this, the Tier Council can review those cases and analyze if / how Snorlax has been the problematic factor. My personal stance on Snorlax is that a ban would likely have a negative impact on the metagame, recreating the stale "Chansey-metagame" where the obvious replacement for Snorlax on most teams will be Chansey, and the safest switchin for Chansey is yet another Chansey. This leads to unnecessarily long and boring matches for both spectators and players. Many skilled players will argue that "Chansey is more exploitable than Snorlax, so it isn't as big of a problem" which holds truth, but another truth is that not every competitive player is as skilled as the players arguing this and will not see the exploits a Chansey offers. (Or the main counter of Chansey has fainted in the duel before Chansey did and the only way to now beat it is to pp-stall) It also needs to be stated that one of the issues with Snorlax (Body Slam paralysis) come due to the fact that there's an increase dislike among the competitive playerbase for RNG, as seen in the OU Discussion Request thread, Confusion thread, Suggestion for haxless tournament and arguments for complex ban on Body Slam Snorlax. When looking at the situation from a helicopter point of view, as Tier Council leader I must look at the whole metagame picture and not just the Official Tournament semis and finals. Each normal / ranked matchmaking game is affected by the change made. The OU Tier has never been as popular as it currently is, which is obvious by the sheer amount of usage statistics I get to process each month, currently around 250 daily matches being recorded on average! I will not rush the decision on Snorlax due to community pressure, as I believe the effects need to be thoroughly discussed and precautions of a potential test ban have to be agreed upon. As I've said before, the Tier Council meeting about Snorlax will take place this month and hopefully we can sort it out.

Haha you got me there. I totally didn't link that thread for you to check out for yourself if metal coat is there in the list or not.

@Rendiz Help

My friends, You can both just whisper me <3

Can we ban this shit cancer called snorlax already. Makes me so sad getting haxd every fucking time from body freaking slam making me sack all my pokes and lose cause i got parad every time this shit hit me. I got knocked out from todays official because my venusaur got parad one turn before it gives final blow to snorlax. Also body slam vs me had its shiny moments in matchmaking more times than i can actually remember. If banning body slam on snorlax isnt possible then just ban the freaking poke.

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So, i think its time to start a new tier for some change after playing OU for 3 years Wish list : (Doesnt have to be perfect, just need 31s on the important Ivs, i have a tight budget) Careful Raichu - egg moves wish, volt tackle Bold Misdreavous Impish poliwrath hasty electabuzz Adamant Tropius Timid Venomoth Naive Victreebel Jolly Fearow post here or mail me in-game IGN : SpartacusGD

Suggested before, never saw any discussion about it. I see absolutely no downsides to playing a notification sound when you enter a Matchmaking battle. I've seen far too many people win and lose battles simply because their opponent didn't want to watch the timer count down. Sure, you can use the Pokemon cries to remind you, but I don't anyone that actually leaves the game sounds on when playing. Game music is kind of annoying and most people turn the sound off, apart from notifications. This wouldn't be such a problem if more people were willing to whisper the opponent and remind them, but most would rather have a free win than an actual battle.

9pm tonight cuz everyone has the same timezone

Congratulations to BlueBurger for 1rst place

Plz chansey is cancer but cureable unlike snorlax. I say we ban snorlax and all adapt to the new meta. Chansey also already had its discussion and they decided not to ban it when it was stronger than now so why would it get discussed then.

The players who complain about Snorlax are mostly experienced players. Experienced players hate when they lose despite playing better than their opponent. If you think of that last statement, it's quite honestly the opposite. Imagine if you had to as a new player play against the top tier players with 6000 less playing hours and trying to succeed against them. To me THAT is what would scare people off from this game when we have no divisions of level in this game. In addition, did you think about 'competitiveness' in your first 1000 hours? I sure as hell didn't. This may be a bit off topic whether lax is banworthy but saying Lax will get people off from this game doesn't make the slightest sense. It makes already people who have won it all have more unlucky bumps for their next trophy. Is it fair? Maybe, maybe not.

I'm not against a stale chansey meta, I'll adapt anyway. You all wont, and in 2-3 months time, if lax is banned, another discussion will come about chansey's unhealthiness to the metagame, and you'll start doing the same circle that's been going for a while now, hoping for a better metagame, while knowing deep in your mind you're never gonna get it, so it's something to do until X things come to the game. What we can do is just adapt to one metagame and work with it, and not constantly switch back and forth. But hey, it's pokemmo, things always go like that, so you all have to adapt to that too.

15 pages and you think all of those were filled by everyone agreeing snorlax is aids? It's a discussion for reason, no need for false assumptions

I have explained why Snorlax is uncompetitive several times already and I know you read my posts since you commented on them. I don't have the energy to explain how I feel about Snorlax in OU all over again, but feel free to look back at first pages of this discussion thread. The fact that 256 man bracket are filling up or that we see a lot of different pokemons being used has little to do with the current meta, but more with how the game have changed from a technical standpoint. Over the past 6 months, the player base from which usage is gathered has significantly increased thanks for matchmaking and automated tournaments. New players = new playstyles = new pokemons being used. Saying OU is fun because 256 man brackets are filling up is absurd since we only had one 256 man bracket tournament so far. There is no comparison to be made here.

Revived from the dead...

Sub + Crunch is a set some run. As is Sub + Surf Kinda forces you to bring both Rhydon and Dusclops if you want to counter it which I find quite annoying Milotic is one Pokemon that consistently does well against it but it isn't fair if everyone is forced to run that. The fact that it can get many moves to counter different Pokemon means it's horrible to prepare against

Scarf water spout ez

Plz tell me a good cleric that doesnt fear snorlax.

ban body slam ez solution

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W E E B S R U N R A M P A N T I N T H I S C O M M U N I T Y H O W D O W E S T O P T H E M

Holy shit I want that 2nd place

Since, you like questions so much here is a question for you. Why do you write in such a large obnoxious font and write paragraphs of shit that isn't particularly relevant and nobody cares about? It's like you don't want people to help you.