OrangeManiac

So your argument is because there's this interaction with one Pokemon, then there's no need to hide opponent's ability for all the other Pokemon - which in the core games is supposed to be hidden information? Or why are you commenting this in this thread?

Ah yes, I went my first 5000 hours without OT shiny. I think it was about 5 years of playing.

There are Pokemon, for example Bronzong and Bronzor, that has two viable abilities - Levitate and Heatproof. While Levitate is more common one, you could use Heatproof to catch opponent off guard. It's a legitimate strategy that comes with playing those Pokemon. Only when attacking the Pokemon, you will gain the information which one it is. That's the main reason having this effect could showcase opponent information, they should not be getting. If the game shows Ground-moves are ineffective against Bronzong for example, then you gained information it is Levitate for free, which goes against a legitimate mindgame option Bronzong user has. Edit: Oh, Rache edited her earlier post so Im just repeating the points

There is a big difference here. Hydreigon/Chomp had their moves removed so they wouldn't have to be pushed to Ubers, because the devs insisted that no Pokemon should be out of competitive play. Assessing a random power to a move isn't done out of similar necessity to prevent a Pokemon from going to Ubers. Gallade was the first time such arbitrary numerical nerf that has been applied and if you think it didn't cause any controversy then go read even a couple of comments about that whole discussion. It opened this exact can of worms we have right now where people are suggesting random numerical adjustments to things which is just a horrible look and this is exactly many people opposed 1,3x/1,4x Gallade in that discussion. Also, I'm not arguing what the devs will or will not do, I have no power over them neither do I want to have. I'm just arguing what I think makes the game look bad and what doesn't. I've always thought the 1,3x/1,4x Gallade nerf made the game's competitive look bad in that regard but in the end it's their game so they can do whatever they want.

There's just so much wrong with this. You clearly have no clue how chess A.I. works and why it isn't applicable to a game like Pokemon. In chess, A.I. can use raw calculating power to calculate every reasonable line to come up with "the best possible move". In Pokemon, there's way too much variability from RNG damage ranges to secondary effects to actually playing the psychological mindgames against your opponent, which they can more easily beat if they know they are playing against a predictable computer. There is rarely in Pokemon such a thing as "undeniable best play" because you always have to make assumption of EV spreads, movesets, opponent's strategy and so on. I have no clue why you went on such a weird tangent about chess A.I. in Pokemon but please stop going any further with this, as you are not making any sense. Then on the other point of discussion. Assessing random move powers to things that has no resemblance to canon games is an awful idea. It just makes the whole game look like a hissy-fit thrown by 15-year-old because in their subjective mind something in the original game wasn't right so now thousands of players have to suffer through it, while majority of the playerbase wants to play Pokemon games that at least some way resemble the original games they grew up with. That's why keeping a move with older gen mechanic is much better option than randomly coming up with your own customized power and effect that makes the whole other community just scratching their head.

I think it's slightly arrogant to imply that the things aren't the way you want them to be just because the devs "haven't studied other MMOs". In short - no, this is not even intended to be some survival RPG or whatever you imagine in your head for a "Pokemon MMO" to be. This is just a way to play the core Pokemon games with your friends, and by forcing you to put some effort into getting yourself the valuables you want. That's the way this game has always been and they're not gonna change it after 12 years just for you.

Knock Off is one of the most broken moves ever created. It was a gigantic mistake even on its time but we need to remember that Knock Off always existed in an era where reliably at least one Pokemon could hold an item that couldn't be knocked off. In gen 6, it was mega stones. In gen 7, it was teracrystals. Even having a somewhat reliable switch-in to Knock Off made it still stupidly broken and the most splashable move the game has ever had. Also, like Forfi said the buffed Knock Off has never existed without Fairy-type. All things put together, Knock Off is stupidly broken anyways but we're lacking the few things that can even somewhat keep it from becoming the most brainless and spammable move in the game's history. That's why it's reasonable Knock Off was never touched and updated to newer gen mechanics, unlike many other moves.

It pays tribute to Scarlet and Violet I guess but I don't think it pays tribute to VGC historically. If we look at the VGC ruleset for each game besides Scarlet & Violet in their release: So if we look historically, VGC has been very allowing for legendaries throughout its history. If anything, VGC has been known as the format where power levels are high and people who don't like it can "go play Smogon". In the end, it's your tournament so you're free to enforce the kind of rules you want but I just thought it was odd that your ruleset followed VGC ruleset exactly but not in this specific regard. Lastly, I will say that I think the lack of Suicune will actually be harmful to the metagame. Swords Dance Garchomp is one of the strongest Pokemon in the game and Suicune being a bulky water-type with Icy Wind is one of the ways to keep it in check. Suicune itself is sitting on a measely 3-4% usage, being anything but overpowered. So I think restricting players from using these not-too-powerful legendary Pokemon will actually allow the strong MMO threats to become even stronger or at least have much fewer options for counterplay.

There's a difference between restricted legendaries (the really powerful ones like Kyogre, Mewtwo, Lugia, Palkia, Reshiram, etc) and your average legendaries like Articuno-Zapdos-Moltres or Entei-Raikou-Suicune. In regards to VGC, they have never been treated the same way just for being legendaries. VGC usually calls the restricted legendaries "Special Pokemon", you can see which Pokemon count as such from here https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Special_Pokémon Also VGC has (almost always) banned mythical Pokemon but that's arguably more due to accessibility than "balance". Point is that these three categories (legendaries/restricteds/mythicals) have been always treated separately and there has never been restrictions on the less powerful legendaries (unless it is due to Pokedex-restrictions). I think Scarlet & Violet was the first game to begin with no legendaries as it had banned Chi-Yu/Chien-Pao/Wo-Chien/Ting-Lu from Series 1 but you could argue their power level was so significantly higher than the non-Paradox Pokemon that it was justified. But historically looking at VGC, something like legendary birds or legendary dogs have been never banned. (Only maybe Pokedex-restricted as part of a new update but not due to their power) Also calling Articuno broken in MMO environment just isn't right. Articuno is absolutely awful in PokeMMO environment. The metagame is against it, it doesn't have Terastalization option. There's literally nothing to be worried about it. Zapdos is the only legendary in Top 20 most used Doubles Pokemon and even Zapdos is far away from being broken. I think the only one to be canonically banned from VGC would be Shaymin as it is a Mythical Pokemon. But even for that, Mythical Pokemon have been generally banned due to being unaccessible outside of distributions events rather than being overpowered (as regular Shaymin is mid af).

Just curious - why are legendaries banned from this event?

Whoever has their Pokemon fainted first, loses. Selfdestruct/Explosion has the user faint first, then do damage. Destiny Bond user first faints, then gets KO. That's why using those will lose you the game. If you KO, then die to Life Orb/recoil/etc. you won the game. That's how it is in regular Pokemon games and there's no reason to deviate from that. There used to be a Self-KO clause for Explosion/Selfdestruct/Dbond only because the system didn't always display the winner correctly. That's why the clause was enforced.

Those are just my ratings, maybe better to see what others think 🙂

I agree that the game needs more legendary implementation as soon as possible. As you demonstrated, we still are lacking a large variety of legendaries into the game. Starting from somewhere would be very welcome. I agree that The Lake Trio and the Regi trio would be the safest additions to the game. I would probably go as far as saying that their effect on MMO Doubles metagame is not going to be all that notable. From the Lake Trio, Azelf is probably the only one having some kind of theoretical niche with reasonable good Speed and Special attack and decent coverage. The Regi Trio doesn't seem all that impactful to me. Being slow and weak to Fighting kinda defaults you into a mid-tier Trick Room sweeper, at best. Justice Trio also sounds interesting, Terrakion would probably cause at least some impact on the metagame (if for nothing else, than the Beat Up Justified cheese). I think I'm slightly more cautious with other legendaries compared to you, I'll go over them one by one. Group 1: I really don't think we want these. Group 2: Not necessarily broken but incredibly centralizing, to the point of being potentially obnoxious to playing experience Group 3: Probably not broken but will become the indisputable champion in their own role Group 4: Strong but generally just fine for the game Group 5: Probably not even top tier in current Dubs

I don't think I have ever seen an economy-related suggestion getting everything this wrong in forums before. First of all, you don't deserve getting your investments getting raised in value. Like every economic investment, it's a gamble. Based on the fact that some people have made profit with this strategy, doesn't mean you are entitled to get rewarded just for buying a vanity and holding on for it a long time. The reason why vanities even have raised in value before is that (some) people have had more money than they have known where to use it for. The hint is on the name, it's a vanity item. You don't need it for anything. However, because people had more money than uses for the money, they started using that money for vanities. Because there were more and more players with too much money, people were able to ask high prices for old limited vanities. The fact that even old limited vanities have lost a bit of value recently means that people actually are using Pokeyen for game-related things. From MMO economy point of view, that's a great thing. You don't want an over-inflated game because then everyone has money and the money is basically useless. You were able to see this effect a lot in GTL. Sometimes the cost of buying a ready competitive Pokemon was cheaper than making one for yourself. Breeding braces was one of the main money sinks in the game and people clearly rather than wanting to buy comps were trying to get rid of them by sometimes selling them at a net loss. Yes, part of it can also be that the bubble has burst. Everyone was investing into vanities with the expectation it "has to increase in value". Well guess what, if everyone invests with this mindset, the opposite will happen. Yeah, a lot of my vanity investment have lost in value. Almost all of them recently. I'm not gonna cry about it. I can at least appreciate people have clearly some better things to do with their money now.

Perish Song Follow Me + your own physical set up Phasing moves like Roar/Whirlwind A lot of Taunt Be untouched by Chansey in the endgame and win PP stall It's annoying for sure but there's ways to beat it