OrangeManiac

I wish I knew.

Okay seriously, you've contributed many posts to these forums for a good while. Many, many posts. At this point you should already know how tiering works in this game. I honestly think these kind of posts should be moderated and just deleted, it's really taking focus away from actual needed discussions. If after hundreds of posts you don't understand the very basics, the concepts everyone should read and understand before making a single post, then you probably shouldn't contribute to these discussions because it's a complete distraction.

Needless to say, restricting yourself to #1 to #150 is gonna limit you a lot unnecessarily. But if that's your requirement, I'll do my best to help you out. Here's some of the best (standalone) Gen 1 Pokemon in the PokeMMO metagame: Chansey: Absolute behemoth of a wall. It's very annoying to face and slow to play but it is used for a reason, it is arguably the only way you can make sure rain teams don't run you over if you play only Gen 1 mons. Also provides you a Stealth Rock setter from Gen 1 Pokemon which is very needed. Gyarados: Very threatening Dragon Dance sweeper with near perfect coverage. Can sweep teams on a correct board. Gengar: Also offensively very threatening. Has an insane movepool and opponent will have to be on their toes all the time playing against one. Weezing: With Chansey, created a very solid defensive core together. Weezing handles Fighting-attacks, which Chansey is weak to and Chansey handles any special sweepers that are threatening Weezing. Dragonite: Very diverse, has plenty of roles it can do well due to its insanely diverse movepool and great distribution of stats all over the board. Starmie: One of the only (good) entry hazard removers from Gen 1 with Rapid Spin. Offensively decent too. Jolteon: Since the aforementioned Gen 1 Pokemon are lacking a Volt Switch blocker, using a Jolteon to prevent Volt Switch spam might be a good idea. Machamp: A slightly worse version of Conkeldurr, to be honest. But if you want a strong physical Gen 1 mon it's definitely useful. Tentacruel: Another potential Rapid Spinner that is a bit less used (and thus in UU) but has some positive traits, like checking Scizor and whatnot so it's an alternative to Starmie. So yeah, if you want a Gen 1 comp team I'd probably start exploring from these and use the 6 you like the most. You want a Stealth Rock setter (Chansey), entry hazard remover (Starmie/Tentacruel) and probably a Volt Switch blocker (Jolteon). I'd also suggest Weezing to complement the defensive core. Last 2 offensive Pokemon can be whatever you like the most, I'd probably use Gyarados and Gengar/Dragonite as the offensive Pokemon of the team.

Oh wow, luck is an element in random battles. Who would have thought.

@MightyMichele First of all, you must really hate fun. And even more when other people are trying to have fun. This on its own should be enough to sum up everything you just said. But drawing real-life economy comparisons like "no free lunch" to fan-made online Pokemon game isn't only ridiculous but also kinda sad. This game isn't real life, I hate to break it to you. Even if for whatever reason you wanted the economy of PokeMMO to be a simulation of real life in any way, you have like 100 bigger issues you should fix in MMO economy that are far more illogical than the concept of "Random battles". So don't even start that whole argument. I wouldn't even need to defend Randoms because obviously what you just suggested about having to pay for Randoms or being event-limited will never happen but I am going to anyway - Random battles is a great way to allow new players to try playing competitive Pokemon before they need to invest time and effort to it to see if they would enjoy it. This was also discovered in Pokemon Showdown, where people don't even need to breed and raise Pokemon. In PokeMMO environment Randoms is arguably even more important because there is even bigger cost of getting all the resources to raise something you will find out you didn't enjoy after all.

You just said a whole lot of nothing there while completely skipping the actual point of that post - it's an awful idea to have key gameplay features obtained by having to invest real money through donations. That's why "just make it an RP feature" is such a bad suggestion always and it just screams desperation, it's almost like your idea isn't useful to the game on its own so you have to convince the devs they would get for it money so they would do it. About the actual suggestion, I don't really care either way. Seems odd to me 150 player limit would ever come up to any team even if every single player had an alt in the team. Or then you're just having an open recruitment when literally anyone from Global chat can join. But any actually serious team and a team with any hope of success are a little bit more selective with their recruitment. But I don't necessarily see any harm in increasing it.

I think we know who is behind this game

Wouldn't really use individual case examples in a comp. discussion thread, ever. Short answer is no, you can list literally endless amount of cases where a supposed counter may fall to some RNG - it's just the nature of the game. Competitive tiering discussions are done looking at a performance of a Pokemon in a longer period, if Serene Grace Togekiss was clearly "overpowering" it would be one of the most used Pokemon in the game. It's not even close. The whole idea of handcrafted nerfs to Serene Grace is just big nope, doing any non-canon nerfs is a horrible idea in general and even more so if it's done to something that isn't even broken.

I don't think I necessarily support a rule. Anyone should be able to host events whenever they want. However, if someone is going against the general consensus of the community whether their event should be even organized right now then they shouldn't expect a high amount of community participation and also not to expect their event to be considered all that legitimate by the broader competitive community. But anyone can and should be allowed to host their casual event whenever they want, I don't think we can really object to that.

I get that you would have to disqualify people from the tournament they were not allowed to participate in and warn them not to do it again because there is a rule for that - but disqualifying someone from a victory they had achieved before completely legally is a very serious punishment. And the problem here is that disqualifying someone from a legally obtained victory isn't just a procedural decision anymore, it is clearly a punishment. How on earth does intent not come into play when you are deciding when and how to punish people? I know some people might argue "you are supposed to know you can't play qualifiers if you already qualified!". Except in competitive circuits of many different games you actually can, official Pokemon circuit included. So for the sake of appearing in any way as a credible tournament hosting organisation, please revise this decision like you did about Queest vs YuoZ.

I have no vested interest about this, I know neither of these people but this just seems wrong. For a good while, reading forums hasn't been a must to participate in PvP play so I think it's unreasonable to punish people for not having read this clause on a forum thread. There was no malicious intent with this either, if people were trying to be deceptive they would use alts to play other qualifiers but these players used their main accounts so they clearly weren't aware of this rule. I don't understand why this rule exists to begin with, in previous seasonals if an invite holder won another qualifier the invite went to the next reserve. But if you must have this rule you have to have this enforced in the in-game client, preventing people with an invite from even queueing to the tournament.

Don't get me wrong, seeing all these unofficial tournaments hosted by the community is great. Only issue is that this is getting way too disorganized now. It's not great to have plethora of major events going at once - it hinders the experience for both the events going on previously and also the new ones. The problem is that there is no organization between different tournament hosts and people just release long tournament series without really discussing until the main thread of the event is released. That's why I'm suggesting we should open (preferably pinned thread) to unofficial tournaments where people can share their ideas of a tournament they wanna host and community members can give feedback whether they are willing to participate in it and when would be a good time to start the tournament series. Hosts for different events could also potentially set up a concrete yearly calendar about events so it doesn't get so clustered and confused like it is now. Also, something I really think this community should get rid of is the "first come, first serve" basis for major events. It almost feels like whenever a major event like PSL ends, people are instantly rushing in with a new event after it just so that other people won't manage to host their events in time. I think a proper community wide discussion thread would help out here massively. Tell me what you think.

The level of irony in telling people to go outside while shitposting on forums of a fan-made Pokemon game is quite incredible.

Wow okay so that might be just one of the worst posts I have ever seen in suggestion forums and I don't make this claim easily. Let me just go through this bit by bit. While competitive players primarily expect the most common set for a Pokemon, the level of uncertainty often causes players in many cases to play cautiously because they are not sure of its build until it uses an attack or it is attacked. Being certain of the nature negates any uncertainty in this regard and allows the opponent to skip the "cautious scouting turn" which in many high tempo matches can be a huge benefit. Also, if you're playing like you always assume every opposing Pokemon to have its meta-build, then I'm guessing you have rarely made past round 3 of any tournament. Just the possibility of a changed nature would keep opponent being unsure of its nature and forces them to play more cautiously. Again, it is different that a player knows a Pokemon is "one of these four possible natures" than "I know for a fact my opponent is Adamant". There is a huge difference. And I can't believe I have to spell this out. Then just speaking anecdotally for a second, how come you can claim that playing while knowing or not knowing the nature of your gift shiny is effectively the same. How many gift shinies do you have? Or any competitive achievements in general? Do you have any first hand experience of being in this scenario? As far as searching your name, you definitely don't as I don't see you have won a single thing but please correct me if I'm wrong. Meanwhile, I have had multiple cases where players have said their knowledge of my nature in my shiny affected the decision they went for in a battle. While, I could have easily avoided this by not using a shiny in a battle to begin with, I still think shinies are the desired trophies in this game that should be encouraged to be used and a disadvantage like this certainly isn't helping with it. Being retroactively able to change the nature would fix this issue to some extent, although I am a realist and don't really expect this to ever happen.

Yes it does make sense. The problem with gift shinies (and being locked to one specific nature) is that it doesn't take long until every player in the game knows the nature of your gift shiny and it puts the player using it in a disadvantage. Being able to change the nature would solve this issue and make gift shinies actually competitively viable. Now, I am aware the devs probably are not going to implement something this specific and a thing that affects such a small number of the playerbase but assuming that having your gift shiny being locked to the nature you decide from the beginning doesn't have any downsides is just wrong.

I really need to start saving for this one.

A small QoL-feature that I think would be nice is having a toggle on the Pokemon's move window to prevent learning any new level up moves. Honestly, even more time consuming than leveling up a baby Pokemon all the time is to press cancel on like a million level up moves which just feels so annoying and pointless. Also useful when you already have your moveset ready and you wanna save a bit of time. It's not that clicking cancel a million times is even MMO-related grind, it's really just a major inconvenience and rather major annoyance when doing any breeds with species that have a baby Pokemon form. I don't know if this has ever been suggested, did a few search words and found nothing related.

Team Name: Solemn Promise Team Tag: [VOW] Registered Players: CHUCKunso, Senjutsuka, OrangeManiac, Draekyn, Hysteriantics, TohnR, Sargeste, Forfiter, Abstractt, Imabetheverybest, JeanMarcH, DridrigoFK, Zigh, Rynners, EricTheGreat, StriderxD, Isperea, TheSosukeAizen, Artemiseta, Parke Team Captain: Draekyn

While only a handful of Hidden Abilities and later gen abilities were released recently, it is already clear that the impact they caused to all of the tiers is significant and will be in the future. The lower tiers are currently in an absolute chaos and that is an understatement. The idea of entire tier reset has been throwing around here and there but that discussion can be stopped because today Kyu dropped an absolute bombshell of an update saying new Hidden Abilities will be gradually introduced to the game little by little. While we cannot know the exact frequency how often this will happen, I would still argue this changes everything. PokeMMO's tiering was designed around expecting stability and supporting stability. The usage movements done every 3 months were done so that Pokemon near the cut-off point wouldn't be constantly moved between two tiers every month while people in the lower tiers had to constantly redesign their teams unsure if a Pokemon is going up or down a tier each month. Only exceptions were done monthly if something had suddenly over 6,7% usage in a month to raise a tier or 1,7% usage in a month to lower a tier because this indicated a high likelyhood a Pokemon would be moved in the next 3-month-cycle. This system provided competitive play and tiering needed stability. That stability is gone. Not only does it take months for people to discover the full potential of released Pokemon, every new addition shakes everything even more. Because stability no longer is a reasonable goal for lower tiers in this game, the only reasonable option is to abandon that 3-month system altogether. The tiering moves have to happen monthly for now. It makes no sense people have to play lower tiers knowing that the Pokemon they have to prepare in lower tiers is going to be staple in the higher tiers but due to the 3-month-rule it may take up to 3 months of suffering with a Pokemon that you know you only need to temporarily prepare against. Also it simply leads to very weird looking tiers. You may have some old outdated relics in higher tier while having Pokemon that gained incredible boost with updates in lower tiers and you would have to wait for months for things to stabilize because you cannot really make an argument for a ban with the current tiering policies (looking at you UU Alakazam and "NU" Espeon). These kinds of things take away the whole point of tiering and makes the tiering system look incredibly chaotic and pointless to any competitive player with reasonable experience and also takes away the whole purpose tiers were designed. While we're in this chaotic time (meaning new things coming in constantly), you have to update at least OU tierlist monthly. This would at least start to formulate some kind of a shape to UU tier, which then could potentially create a playable NU tier. Also the amount of data OU matchmaking gives every month is by numbers reasonable enough to make decisions based off on monthly usage. Other issue that needs to be addressed are quickbans. While before in the stable era of tiering, quickbans should be used sparingly because you had to get that certain level of certainty and evaluation of whether a threat is broken not only on paper but also in practice but now we simply don't have that stability to make those assessments. Rather, there are so many potentially broken threats in the metagame that it is almost impossible to create and evaluate a potential suspect test when people are preparing for tons of potentially banworthy things at once. In other words, you cannot tell if a metagame went better during a suspect test if all that was done during that suspect test was focusing some other broken threat more. This kind of a suspect test could indicate a metagame went worse during a suspect test due to more centralized usage, while in reality people were just using more resources to focus on another broken threat, which by looking at the usage would indicate a worse metagame than before. What this all means is that suspect tests during a chaotic period of a metagame can be useless or even counter-productive to the true evaluation of whether a tier has improved due to a ban or not. The solution to this is simply that Tier Council makes difficult decisions they think are right, even if they are made too quickly. If a Pokemon seems too strong for the community and for the Tier Council, it is better to let it go. This all can be revised when a certain level of stability has been reached. But currently we cannot get overly diplomatic about every single Pokemon - if it seems too strong it deserves to be gone. The point of Tier Council is to be competitive experts and to analyze if a Pokemon is too strong for the metagame and can it be reasonably handled, it is not to point out that every 3 months usage will do the work for us. Difficult decisions must be made but in the current state of the game it's better to make a couple of hasty decisions than doing nothing because otherwise the lower tiers will remain in a constant unplayable chaos state.

Oh I completely forgot all discussion happened here, my bad. I think the key point is that Espeon undeniably is a better Alakazam now. It makes no sense having Espeon in a lower tier than Alakazam, when they are similar at their role but Espeon's ability makes it far more useful. It's not necessarily that Espeon is "broken" but having it in NU makes no sense from tiering perspective.

Espeon at least to BL2 for now, I don't think I even need to explain this one. edit: oh there was Espeon already mentioned in the other thread my bad

bro why did you nuke Electrode then

Serperior currently has June usage of 1,20% in OU. Contrary takes 73,68% of Serp's usage so it's safe to say this usage is after the update and the Overgrow is before the update. By this, it is reasonable to assume post-update Serp's usage for whole June has been 1,2% * 0,7368 = 0,88%. Update was released 24th of June, which means Contrary Serp has been available for 6 days, which is 6/30 days of June so 1/5th of the available days in June. If it is assumed Contrary Serp was available for the whole month, Contrary Serp's usage would have been 4,4%. And this all is also despite the fact that during the event people play matchmaking far less so less usage accounts to the statistics after the event was released, as well as Serp's being less available for less wealthy players due to expenses. TL;DR It is already evident that Serperior is going to OU. Just ban it from the UU in the meantime so people don't have to teambuild against a broken threat that will be guaranteed to leave the tier anyways in a month of two.