pachima

Damn. A wallbreaker beats walls. Who would have thought? In other news, water is wet. (Except Volcanion. It's a gas) What are these calcs supposed to show? That Nidoqueen, a wallbreaker, indeed breaks walls? How does it do against Offense? How easily can it actually shift momentum versus those walls? How easily can it exert pressure on offensive threats? Maybe Nidoqueen is indeed busted, but these calcs tell me absolutely nothing except that a wallbreak is really able to break walls. Next. Why are you obliged to follow the usage, at all, when the tiers are a mess, when UU is in such a chaotic place that it lost 10 different Pokemon to NU in the span of 2 months? Why are you dropping anything at all, independently of how busted or not it is? What about let the tiers stabilize even in the slightest before just collapse everything at once, for no reason other than to further kill these lower tiers? Will you fix it? No, you won't. Otherwise, you'd start now, which is fairly obvious you aren't doing. You keep pushing responsibilities for the next month. It has been almost half an year where NU and UU are at their lowest points ever, only second to when Dugtrio was allowed in NU. Are you expecting to accomplish, by just nuking 5-6 different things at the same time, that by some divine miracle, it fixes the tier? Even worse than that. Half of these things that are about to potentially drop, please take a closer look at what they are, are all a direct influence to the sudden rise of Toxicroak in UU, mostly due to both Feraligatr and Crawdaunt gaining access to their HA. Finally, why are people in this game consistently mentioning defensive answers to potentially uber defensive walls? What in hell is this argument? A Pokemon cannot be uber defensive, because it is walled ???????????????????????? Excuse me, what? I don't care what defensive answers deny a defensive threat, not even in the slightest. I care how many offensive Pokemon that defensive thread handles, how many it doesn't, in what circumstances it does and does not. Unfortunately it is not the first time a defensive behemoth that completely centralizes the tier is deemed fine just because other defensive pokemon handle it. Is Vaporeon indeed uber defensive? I don't know, and after reading your justification, I know the exact jackass nothing, except that another defensive Pokemon handles it??? Justifying a defensive threat by not even speaking about offense is, by itself, laughable in way too many ways. (Oh, and I can't wait for the : B-but Sceptile and Eel handle it. Nice. 2 out of how many?) Note I am not necessarily against or for some specific decisions. I am against the fact people are unable to actually come up with their decisions, and think it is wiser to just come up with random nonsense facts that have nothing to do with their arguments, just to show they are clueless to whatever they talk about. Tierings aside. Can we really just ignore usage for the time being and stop murdering NU for no reason other than to feel obliged to follow a policy that has been outdated ever since 1535? End of rant. Thanks for putting up with my bs.

congratulations @Gunthug. Solid winner. And congratulations for everyone else who got something. Thanks @Shadow for this beautiful thing, and for the other judges who had to evaluate so many entries. Props for the explicit point system as well 🙂 Next one when?

Yes. Drop Cloyster-Vaporeon-Gastrodon-Tentacruel at the same month Toxicroak goes to OU. Because it is inconceivable they will just be used again in UU after that, thus leaving NU in a completely unnecessary chaos for a few months for absolutely no reason other than spending a few minutes discussing the actual Pokemon you are dropping. Also, why isnt Salamence Gatekeept from UU for the time being. UU is in absolute chaos. Instead of just dropping another huge bomb to the tier, why don't you actually realize what is wrong with it in the first place before proceeding with unnecessary big changes? Having updates is a terrible excuse for why tiers are how they are right now. Updates are irrelevant, when you have the power to gatekeep whatever you want. Finally, why the hell are we still using usage system in lower tiers? Even worse, Why are we still using 4,36 marks for those tiers? You have literally dropped 4 Pokemon to NU last month, reshaping the tier that is yet to adapt to it, but we are now looking to drop 6 more, because why not? Because a few months ago NU had stable 13k matches monthly, but apparently that was too good so we better ruin it as well to the point of dropping it to below 10k. Doesn't it strike you as a huge flaw in UU, when for the first time ever UU just dropped 10 different Pokemon to NU in just 2 months? No, of course not. Let's just keep dropping stuff as well as dropping other stuff to UU every month and blame it to the devs that are just adding new stuff to the game, instead of actually taking action and actually make tiers enjoybale for as long as possible. But this isn't a game at all apparently. What matters is we have fun in 2035 when tiers are stabilized. Jesus hell. Enough is enough. This is the absolute worst lower tiers have ever been ever since ladder update, and yet we have not a single word of what is being done to attempt to fix it. Instead, just drop new stuff and blindly follow the usages, because that is the easiest approach for everything in this game.

IGN: Deffonotpachima Preferred Tiers: Any Competitive accolades (optional, although it certainly increases your chances of getting picked): I usually perform good in forum pvp events Discord contact: Dumbino #3152 Fluff: 🙂 Preferred/Least Preferred Potential Manager: Idc

First things first. UU is broken. We have 3 Pokemon above 56% winrate. 2 of which above 20% usage. This is unprecedented outside of non-tiers, and should strike as an obvious flaw considering we both are counting mirror matches, dropping down the actual winrate, and that people were complaining PZ was broken when it was nowhere the combination of these 2 numbers. I still think Shaymin is broken, but the tier is so fragmented in an unbalanced way that is completely nonsense to just discuss multiple things at once, and P2 just needs to go asap first.

You dont like a tier where a mon that has over 25% usage has 57%+ winrate despite this number being dropped down due to mirror matches?

or you die.

I disagree. Even after Randoms were implemented, UU had a somewhat nice influx of games in the past. (27k games monthly at some point) One of the worst NU metas, for instance, had less than 5k games monthly (While dugtrio was in), and after it was banned, thus freeing the whole metagame, games quickly shot up to over twice that amount, to a steady 12-13k per month, which sadly have dropped already because nothing has been done in the tier since then. It's fairly obvious the problem isn't the rewards or whatsoever, otherwise people wouldn't have played in the past, or wouldn't play OU right now. The problem is that tiers are a mess, and there has been no effort into making them satisfying to play again, which, of course, is reflected in the numbers. Boosting rewards doesn't solve the actual problem, and is more of a quick-short-term bandaid, that will ultimately result in nothing at all. While certain people refuse to do anything about it, and opt to go blind about this mess, because of laziness, the problem won't go away. It has been proved so many times in the past that a more satisfying meta will result in more monthly matches, that I absolutely have no idea why people insist its a reward issue, and I have even less of a clue why other people believe nothing can be done, or nothing should be done.

That's not how it works. Porygon2 can usually afford being on the field on stall teams because stall teams are, by definition, meant to keep switching. This means that eventually p2 will be on field. What happens when P2 is on the field? Offense is forced to lose a mon. What happens next? Stall will just keep switching over and over again until P2 is on the field again. Is this valid the other way around? No. Because offense isnt meant to keep switching. It is meant to keep exerting pressure. Offense is meant to keep shifting momentum. Usually, against stall, this is very possible, since most Pokemon there are very passive, thus balancing the two styles. However, P2 just ignores all this and says: No, you won't have momentum, and you will lose a Pokemon. It doesn't matter if you can then revenge kill me because my team is meant to switch into whatever you send again, and yours is not. TLDR; Shifting momentum offensively is the only way Offense can deal with more defensive playstyles, and P2 completely denies them of all that.

I agree with everything. Just one thing. P2 is naturally faster than Machamp, which means AV machamp cannot be either 252 atk or 252 HP. Also AV machamp cannot outright OHKO P2, which means realistically Machamp will only come once.

Because pachirisu is the best mon. IGN: Deffonotpachima Title: The legend of the One Words: 2026 Thanks for the world raise from other events.

Actual TC chat for NU: - Hum, NU is actually nice to play right now. Maybe a little too nice. - Agreed. What should we do? - Destroy it. - Cool. how? - Let's see. Sharpedo and Scraty surely won't be an issue. - Great. Anything else? - Eh. Golbat was only top 3 mons last time it was in the tier. It won't change much. - Perfect. Are we done? - Nah. Slowbro was also a predominant pokemon in that tier. No reason not to add it. - So are we adding 2 pokemon that can potentiallly shape the meta around them as well as adding 2 potentially uber-offensive pokemons. Superb!!! - Kudos!! - Amazing. - 10/10 - But. What if, in the absolute minimal chance, the tier breaks?. How do we know what is creating unwanted ripples, since we are just adding 4 dominant Pokemon at once? - ?? - What do you mean tier breaks? - Nah, Won't happen. -True. -Also, if it does. It's not an issue at all. Tier was dead for years. It won't hurt them if its dead for a few more months. -Agreed. Besides, Golbat might actually rise again because of Shaymin in UU. -Haha yeah. See? No need to worry. We thought of everything. -And then once shaymin can potentially rise again, Golbat drops again. - Yeah, but by then its 2025. It's fine.

nice. Any sort of offense just died in UU. Going back to 60% stall teams in high tournaments. Fun.

The issue with Draco Meteor Hydreigon is how its bulk allows it to trade damage against most of the stuff, at the same time as it prevents the enemy from switching comfortably. If you slap a Choice Specs in those calcs you'll realize Assault Vest doesn't really matter. Offense doesn't switch on it. Balance doesn't really switch on it, or needs dedicated answers. Even stall needs to gamble with whatever move Hydreigon clicks. Bulky Offense just dies because they don't have the speed or the bulk to handle it. Things become much much worse when you can't even know what set Hydreigon is using beforehand, and thus you have to potentially lose something just to scout it. By removing Draco Meteor, most sets lose their main power, thus it can be handled much easier. Simple.

First. That's not how it works. I asked you what stops Shaymin in UU from being overcentralizing. If you, or the TC, are ready to move it down, you should be able to answer that. Since you haven't, the argument was given. But I'll bite it. How many offensive Pokemon switch reliably on Shaymin? Answer: 0 How many offensive Pokemon reliably revenge kill Shaymin? Answer: 2 (Durant and Sigilyph) (And Offensive Crobat, since its gradually rising). Also durant isn't that reliable, since it can lose against both scarf and bold versions. Let's bear in mind Porygon-Z was banned despite having lots of revenge killers, and although shaymin doesn't hit as hard against stall, it completely renders more offensive builds useless. Having a dedicated wall for it in offensive teams doesn't work either because Shaymin is able to handle every single wall in the tier individually besides Mandibuzz, which is quite bad nowadays, and just got nerfed. You are forced to have multiple switches to this thing, which invalidates virtually every offensive team and basically forces everyone to either play Balance or stall or something in between. Is this enough of an argument?

First of all, using usage for a Pokemon that can only obtained once, imediately after it was available, is kek. (But whatever. Not here to discuss the system) Second, did you even bother to read what I said? If you did, why are you disregarding the argument given? If you didn't, why respond at all? Do I need to quote my own post to highlight the key words for you to understand where to look at?

Sure. Once you explain to me what deals with it without overcentralizing the tier with the same Crobat-Bronzong-Rotom cores. Unless, of course, you want a tier where you instantly lose if you don't bring them all.

I agree these changes won't matter much when it comes to regen, and that it actually buffs the ability, as if it wasn't already a problem. If I am not mistaken, gen9 regen was nerfed to 25% heal instead of 33%. That could be nice, especially since it is pretty much a given we are getting other regens eventually.

Funny. MMO balancing has always buffed a more defensive playstyle to the point MMO meta is by far the stalliest of most gen5 metas out there. Funnier. Most were so hyped to see stall further buffed with hazards slapped on most walls, because apparently MMO isn't stally enough for those people. But God forbid them to actually balance the game and for the first time in ages giving a buff to offense, when compared to official counterparts. Besides, some people completely forget the fact Pokemon is a game and are willing to spend 1 hour of their life per match, mindlessly clicking recovery buttons, just because they are either unable to think, or simply refuse to. This, while not being necessarily a bad thing, is not fun, and happens WAY too often, the the point most tournaments are dragged to hell because of a few matches that delay the whole thing. Most people don't have 5-6 hours to invest straight in each tournament, and honestly, neither should anyone. Again, I am not saying it shouldn't happen at all. Just that it happens way too often. Does this completely kill defensive styles? I don't know. I can't know, and neither can anyone. We have never tested similar changes, and any comparison between this and other metagames outside this game are irrelevant. And while it may indeed unbalance this game and turn into an issue, it's a risk at least I would be willing to take. If it works, we may be able to turn tournament into a much more enjoyable experience. If it doesn't, then they'll find a way to mitigate it somehow if deemed necessary.

To this day, and to you all Pokemmo addicts, a merry and shiny christmas.

1- Hippowdon, a defensive Pokemon, is being justified because it allows other Pokemon coming in 2- Hippowdon, again a defensive Pokemon, is being compared to goddamn Ambipom On the other hand, Salamence was considered to be a Crobat replacement, so... XD

People sleeping on Cristi's team lol.

I don't see it being a big problem in NU. On closer inspection, there are many Rock/Steel types in the tier that can irritate him and make its life a living hell. It will irritate some offensive teams a bit, but nothing unheatable.

IGN: Deffonotpachima Time Zone: BST Discord: Pachi#3152 Preferred Tiers: All Fluff: Didn't want to participate, but this is a really good host.