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YourAngst

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  1. IGN: ArisTheFang Time Zone (UTC Format):+2 Discord: aris0600 Preferred Tiers: ou,nu Fluff: Im one of NecasInTrouble's homies trust the process this is my time to win.. Donation: LF manager to donate
  2. All i want to say is that i for one don t like how the gallade problem is treated , just like last time when gallade was disscused the main complaint was that the wall braker , wall brakes . Yes there are some specific mons gallade brakes that other wall brakers don t that is however a given and should not be used as an arrgument against gallade , let me tell you besides the diffrence of 1.4 and 1.5 sharpness ( a diffrence that is negligible) there is not a single argument that can be used against gallade that also dosen t applay to more or less all the other wallbrakers in the game . First of all if Sableye alone can handle evry gallade set then its more then perrfect , with acces to priority w-o-w , taunt and encore seb can be used to good success against both deffensive oriented teams and offensive oriented teams therefore seb can have a solid role in OU and not just be there for gallade Regarding the other wall brakers that also fit those ''uber offensive'' characteristics that gallade ''has'' , we have : Nidoking , you don t check this thing deffensivly unless you have chansey/bliss and unlike gallade , nido also has acces to uitilitty moves so nido should get baned as well Yanmega , as funny or stupid it may seem to some of you yanma is held back by its typeing (stelth rock) put tinted lens on it and again you don t check this deffensivly unless you have a pink blob with you , ban this as well Crawdaunt , you can check this deffensivly but you need something very specific best bet being poliwrath and again useing the logic if only one pokemon can check the problem pokemon then ban the problem pokemon , bye craw Mamoswine , mamo is the funy one here , unlike the other 4 here mamo dosen t have a damage boosting ability and yet it can be more problematic then all of them , better typeing offensive wise then gallade and unlike gallade an acctaul useful priority move that gives stab , why is nobody talking about mamo? Just becauuse there are rotoms and skarmorys flying around? Again unlike the gallade - sableye case there isn t a pokemon that is immune to both mamo's stabs if anything mamo should get disscused first before gallade Don t get the wrong ideea i am not saing that any of the above should be baned im just pointing out that there are many pokemon that fit in the uber offensive cloak , there is no gallade sppecific arguments that has been made and dosen t applay to other wall brakers as well , also notice how 3 of them are from UU ? This alone should speak for its self just because they are not OU by usage dosen t mean they don t have the ability to do what gallade does now . And one finnale thing i want to touch on is that in moments like this we should see the problem from both sides of the spectrum , we all saw and know how the metagame looked /was before gallade and then 1.5 gallade, with gallade at 1.3 and with gallade at 1.4 and this is important to know since gallade as much as is hated , keeps some very very nasty stuff in check that the other wall brakers don t , i know that offensive power creep will always stand out more and faster then deffensive power creep however assumeing everyone who complains about gallade does so because it provides an unhealty offensive power creep then we should be honest and admit that a deffensive power creep would not be healty as well if gallade were to go now we would see a huge spike in deffenisve power creep with zapdos around , gallade needs to saty the way it is now , imho
  3. What is the TC's stance regarding dug?
  4. I think you missed the point of my post mick but yes ban dug or atleast complex ban it
  5. I like you re post Azpheil its well made and it does get the main point across as to why some people consider dug and its arena trap a good addition , however there are some parts of it i for one find are either vague or don t quite adress the issue This is very true and i agree but like both Skye and me (i don t want to sound like a broken record so if interested go check out the first page of dug's disscusion where i replayed to ziios post) already said the outs/ways to play bad matchups : double switching , hazzards are already taken out of the ecuacion thanks to arena trap working in conjunction with magic bounce , not to mention all the teammates that benefit from this paring , stelth rock hydrei does well into dug + MB however like i said ( in the same post ^ ) volcarona dosen t care much about hydrei and can easly switch into it and not fear much from hydei As for the part i found vague and i don t want to seem like i am grasping at straws If you were to simply replayce ''dug+magic bounce'' with anything that is considered too much for our metagame you can make the argument that nothing should ever be baned and eveything that is baned should be unbaned at once , dm hydrei welcome back , sd chomp return of the king , shaymin too much for uu? never heard of it . Yes , i know you said this first but the team preview one stood out more to me , again like me and many others have said in order to prepare for this team you will become a lot more exposed to other more used/popular mons this should at least rise an eyebrow as being toxic and again like i did above : The problem lies in the playerbase not adapting their teambuilds to arceus , keldeo , sd chomp , dm hydrei , brigth powder - sand vail chomp Don t get me wrong i like you re post and even if it dosen t seem like it i do like to see TC members comeing here and telling us theyr thoughts regarding discussions like this but like i already pointed some part are too vague and others are just skipping around what is considered a bad matchup , not to mention the not adapting part , again by this logic you can just as well throw the most outrageous things in OU or any tier for that matter and just tell the playerbase ''addapt to it '' , '' play around it '' , for exemple i think that brigth powder - sand vail chomp should be allowed all you have to do is simply adapt to it and use ice beam - wide lens slowbro its easy , does the exmple i use sound very questionable and maybe even bad? Should not , is the ''same'' school of thought as useing shed shell on ttar
  6. the point of a balance team is to be able to flawlessly or atleast close to flawless be able to switch from offense to deffense , from deffense into high gear the combo of chansey, skarmory, suicune , zap , gliscor and -instert steel type- can do exactly that , if the team fells more pasive then it needs to be then the other pokemons can become more offensive then thay are and by that i mean movepool / ev spread /nature / item(s) doing this if the team is more passive then it needs to be will allow the team to keep the same core mons while also addresing the other issue of it being to passive , to me personally team is fine and dosen t feel to pasive and like i said :
  7. I feel like this discussion dosen t go anywhere so far so i once again propose the ideea to simply complex ban arena trap+magic bounce , i know that to most of you this will either seem like a pointless complex ban, since it dosen t address the main problem with dug and that is arena trap and the effects/problems it brings and to others this complex ban may seem like only a small band aid solution regarding dug but hear me out There is one ''argument''(not much of an argument the way it was worded) that despite being said in a very condescending way i feel like most of us could get behinde with diffrent wording and that is ''mindlessly copying smogon regarding dug's ban'' - or something along those lines , so trying to understand this point of view i think i see where its comeing from basically our metagame is a lot more dynamic and more prone to chnage when compared with the older metagames where dug was baned, due the constant updates made by the devs not to mention that those older gens also don t recive as much or as offten tiering as we do , also the initial ban on dug in gen 7 was thanks to Z moves wich allowed dug to guarantee kill the mon it had traped allowing the team dug was supporting wich was ussualy stall to win a 5v5 stall game affter this it got baned from gens 6,5 and 4 for doing similar stuff however in those other 3 gens like i said in my previous post dug is a lot weaker and does not have acces to a nuke ( z moves) but what it does have its magic bounce support wich allowed to dug to keep its focus sash intact and safely trap and kill the pokemon it had to trap , now some may say ''magic bounce did not exist in gen 4 and dug was still baned'' that is true however our metagame is more close to those of gen 5 and 6 and i belive that this complex ban will fix the current problem of dug . This complex ban brings the best of both worlds really ( atleast imo) for those that want to keep dugi , the pokemon itself completely intact with all the qualitys it has to offer both in ability and movepoll they can and at the same time it also makes dug a lot more easy and fair to play against ( again imo) since now it will take actual skill and cerful maneuvering to keep dug's focus sash intact the way things are now those dug teams focus more so on preventhing hazzards on the field useing magic baunce rather then relying on deofg or rapid spin , they do use defog too but that is more so if espeon is either dead or to low to hit the field again , however without the help of MB they now can only use defog and/or rapid spin to clear the field , now dug has more counterplay to it since now its traping has some interaction to it at least when compared to the way it is now The way dug is now thanks to MB allowes it to keep its focus sash intact so it can sfely trap and kill what it wants to without fearing a KO itself not only that but dug once left at one hp has options in its movepool for everything that comes in affter : something faster then dug that wants to secure the KO - dug has sucker punch for chip , something that wants to set up and boost its speed- rock tomb . something slower that wants to set up - memento / toxic , if none of the above it can just set stelth rock , its true that dug can t do all of this at once but it can do a lot more then its realtive low stats allow it too and to me all of this is manly due to its partner MB being able to keep its sash intact . Overall dug as a pokemon despite haveing an ability that eliminates a core mechanic of the game that has been here since gen 1 aka since the beginig wich is switching , its still at its core a preatty trash pokemon all things considerd (affter all you can see on all the posts that i made in this thread and in others that I never reffer to dug alone but allways to dug and friends ) so i want to hear others thoughts regarding this complex ban ideea
  8. When you do comeback i want to see you the new king of both showdown ladder and smogon tours untill then i can only wish you the best of luck , may you re focus blasts never miss
  9. This team has a powerful deffensive core so far 4th pokemon should be skarmory due to the strong synergy it has with chansey and now you would have a team composed of wish pass chansey , deffensive skarmory that lays hazzards and preferably a defensive zapdos with defog to remove hazzards from you re side of the field and a cm suicune that wants to set up , powerful line-up so far and with a quick look another adition of great importance would be a physical mon that also wants to set up since you to have such a strong deffensive core so far haveing you re damage dealers be set up'rs won t be a problem , one pokemon that comes to mind that can set up while also further improveing the deffensive core would be SD gliscor , cerful nature with poison heal ,toxic orb and facade as for the last pokemon you would want something that resits rock moves since nothing so far can t tank rock moves so another steel type like empoleon, ferrathorn or bronzong can fix that issue , hope this helps and keep in mind there are many pokemons that can fit in the core of chansey-suicune-zapdos the ones i mentioned are not the only options
  10. You re team is not bad at all however i would change the sets a bit a 4 attacks chomp works better with choice scarf rather then life orb since a life orb set can be easly play around and more often then not you will lose HP on chomp due to life orb without geting much done also haveing 2 life orb users on the same team is overkill since this team is not HO and more oriented towrds balance since you do have a strong deffensive core it would be unwise to have to life orb users not to mention scarf chomp offers great speed countrol something you re team lacks a bit and only speed control coimeing form infranpe being naturealy fast but that alone won t be enough most of the time Regarding infarnape i would swap thunder punch for u-turn , that way you have 3 mons with mometum moves those being scizor , rotom and now infanrape with so much momentum you get more opportunities to get scarf chomp or scizor on the field and force progress also again life orb dosen t work that great in this type of balance team since it does limit the potentil to play for the long game so alternatively you can opt for a boosting item on infarnpe like black belt or charcoal , not only will this change increase the longevity of infarnpe but also won t give away the item on infarnape and this can make you re opponets think you are choice lock Since the only way to remove hazzards with this team is starmie rapid spin a bulky starmie would fit a lot better and i would swap psyshock for recover
  11. 110% agree with this post , this man is spiting nothing but straigth up FACTS ! Devs do a solid and implement this change
  12. Yes it is very funny indeed , this argument can just as well be used against you , first let me ask you what do you understand by ''improve the competitive scene''? There were plenty of arguments of how DM hydri would have ( and has have more or less) improved the competitive scene , just because it was in a way most of us didn like does not mean it was healty and the exact same goes for dug in the current state , as funny and ridicules you find the 3% usage to be is a very important factor as to why is such a problem . And this is the part where usage comes into play , all the things you mentioned are real threats in OU , however the diffrence between those threats and dug is that those threaths have big usage , you know you are very likely to encounter them so you prepare accordingly for them when teambuilding and since dug has so low usage you most likely won t be prepared to face a dug team and if were to be prepared for dug you most likely make you re self more exposed to other more commone threats like the ones you mentioned and is for this reason why dug's low usage works so well in its favore , if dug teams where to have a higer usage the meta would start to dance around them just like it did with dm hydrei while it was allowed . I guarantee you that nobody has a team that is entirely( all 6 mons) weak to dug , at best each team has one or two mons that are weak to ground that of its self is not a problem the problem comes when you CAN T switch out of that ground type , being weak to a ground types that traps you and kills you does not mean you are weak to every single ground type in the game Yes it is and will get into it Problem here is that you compare those 3 base on one aspect they have in common , wiche is traping , all 3 of them do the traping part in very diffrent ways lets start with ttar. Yes ttar does pursuit psychics and ghosts quite well however it can t easly do that , for psychics most common one that comes to mind now is starmie , ttar despite having good sp def and hp dosen t raw switch into starmie unless you either switch in on a rapid spin or switch in via a momentum move and even then a bulky starmie won t die to pursuit as long as it dosen t switch out so even if you do trap and kill the starmie that starmie would have hit ttar with 2 strong surf by now not to mention if this instance where to happen you as ttar can go for a crunch insteed of pursuit if the starmie user reads that can freely switch out , a scarf jolly ttar does outspeed starmie however as long as it dosen t switch out it can survive one pursuit and either rapid spin the rocks away or hit ttar with a huge surf , not to mention that this scarf ttar would take a lot more from surf then a bulky one so even tho the traping did happen and starmie died interaction between those 2 still happend this interaction is very important and shows a huge diffrence between ttar traping starmie and dug traping a grounded mon , in the ttar/starmie one there are ways for one of the parties to make a bad read , to make a mistake aka the traping either did not work or was not as succesful as it could have been (ttar has taken damage or a lot of damage ) so this resuslts in a healty interaction , same can t not be said about dug as dug only needs to click one move onace the traping begun and the trapped can t do anything against dug most of the time so its a toxic interaction or better say there is not interaction at all As for the ghost types the same thing applays , ttar dosen t frelly trap the ghosts since there is the risk of geting burned by w-o-w , even chanda oance traped by ttar can opt to go for a flamethrower and hope for a burn , as for gengar can do the same go for w-o-w if it has it for a focus blast so even tho ttar can trap and eliminate psychic and ghosts its not something risk free there are ways for the traped pokemons to do something against ttar and do not fall flat on theyr face onance ttar has hit the field Magnezone can only trapa and kill the steel types but it can t do that for free , against deffensive ones like like skarmory and ferra while magne can in theory switch in on them for free and trap them it comes at a cost and the only way to make it risk free is to trap them on a double switch , witch can be hard to pull of , not to mention that most magnezones will be choice lock so while there may not be any interaction here between the traper and the traped the interaction comes affter , magnezone traping and killing a steel type is a huge momentum sink and due to it being choice lock a set up can easly come in and take advantage of that , it dosen t have to be a setuper either it can be hazzard setter to set hazzards up for free or even a u-turn/volt mon to take back mometum from the traping , offensive steel types however have more outs regarding this , scizor is hard to get a hold off due to u-turn spam makeing a slippery target for magnezone not to mention scizor can just opt to go for CC , it may not hit magnezone with that CC but it also prevents magne from raw switching in , a bulky lucario sruvvives HP fire and kills with CC , bisharp can also survive HP fire with a bit of hp invesment and kill magne with low kick+sucker punch , what i am trying to say here is that even if the traping of the steel type where to happen that traping does not eliminate interaction While yes over a long series of games even if those 2 don t have what to trap they are still useful , however the way you described dug as to be dead weigth it is not true , even if dug has nothing to trap it can opt to do other things , such as act as a suicide lead haveing acces to not only sthelth rock but also rock tomb to set even more speed control for the rest of the team as well as memento so even in a case where something slow may want to set up in front of dug , dug can just memento and make that setupr ussles also anoter thing that you mentioned is that the other 2 are not ussles if stelth rock goes up that is true if not for sash dug would be a way way worse mon( will go over this in a bit ) however you are not geting stelth rock up against those dug teams and even if you get them up and keep them up then it ussualy means its way to late , ttar and magne can die to priority tho only mach punch true but they still do die so i don t really know why you said they won t . Multi hit moves do work but you know dug is not going to stay in and eat those , stelth rock is no , you simply don t get stelth rock up against that team and this one small thing is what makes dug so hard to deal with , simply because there is no way to remove its sahs without direct damage to it and in doing so dug as done its job , what are those faster mons with u turn ? i would like to know the only one that is faster then dug naturaly and has acces to u-turn is Accelgor outside of that everything else needs to be scarf and for those fast scarf mons with u-turn shedninja exists , shed will simply blink them and make you re scarf momentum mon be locked on the field while shed can go for batton pas and gain even more momentom on you , again there is not much to play around as long as dug has its focus shash intact all forms of interactions regarding arena trap are removed this does not happen with the other two that have a lot more downsides to theyr traping when compare to dug. The reason dosen t differ at all , here is a quck run down : dug was OU up till gen 7 SM where it got that stat buff atk went from base 80 to 100 that + acces to Z moves made dug a great teammate for stall teams useing the combo of arena trap-z move to eliminate key threaths to wich the stall teams would start and well.. stall so affter some time it got tested , demded uncompetitive and baned , this is gen 7, affter that players started and used dug in the earlyer gen despite being overall a way weaker dug it did achived the same results and thus it got baned from all of them besides ADV and it is a fine and ok pokemon in ADV for many reasons (more on that later) but yeah dug was allways there players were never aware of it Just like last time lets stop for a moment , forget about that stat page and what it shows , yes it is important but even without all the extra information it does offer by takeing a quick look at only what pokemons are the most used you do see how dug does destroy most if not all of them , how? its simple dug job is only to take out key mons that can stop its own teammates from seting up and one of those teammates is volcarona well know for runing over many teams affter one boost , you migth say now ''oh but the team was weak to volc '' no it was not weak to volc however onace the dug managed to take out that key threat the said team becomes weak to volc so dugtrio in of itself as a pokemon dosen t not destroy half the tier , its the other pokemon it heavely enables quite easly ( since its hard to brake the sash) that destroy half the tier onace theyr check its gone The chess exmaple is very good and to further build on this analogy made by frags , competitive pokemon is essentially chess , expect we also have rng , in chess the first thing you should do is to start and develop the boarde aka get all the pices out and moveing all the pices not just the horses and some pawns , even the bishop,rooks need to move ,quenn too here this can be viewed as useing all 6 of you re pokemons trying to spread damage acroos the field (the boared development) while minemazing risk and just like in chess the value of you pices/pokemons will shift each turn , now imagine that you re opponent's quenn is dugtrio and from the get go this quenn was not set in her normal starting possision but insteed ready to take down one of you rooks as soon as they are left unguarded therefore during you re turns you did not move/use you re rooks and because of that your side of the bored is not fully developte / you are not useing all 6 of you mons meanwhile you re opponent has done the bored development and its ready to shift into offense , does the chess analogy make sense now? This is what dug does to most of the teams rn Who did copy paste from smogon? I would like to know , show me that person and show the the text they did copypasted aowdhu ye i fell like all the explenation i did up to this point does sum it up why dug or ataleast why arena trap+magic bounce is not a good fit at all This one is the most simple one to explain , you , me and everyone else here whether they like to admit it or not have teambuilding patterns and tendencys and we do fallow those patterns and tendencys whether we are aware or not, concensly or subconcensly , simply put you re patterns and prefences allow you to have a easy time against this dug team , fun fact my own patterns and tendencys allowed me to have a swell time against dm hydra and yet i did not come into the hydra disscusion claming it is easy to play around it just because I as an individual had succes against it , i still acknowledge hydra as a threat to the metagame at large , something most ppl here on this forum are not able to do regarding dug... sad Last time i did this doctor you seem to have taken it as some sort of personal atk it was not back then and this one is not one now but since you asked why dug bad in pokemmo seems only fair to start w u from ur first post So far from what ive seen only matt and godhell have acknowledged that dug is a problem more so thanks to its teammates while everyone else seems to only focus to dug in a vacuum , dug would not be as strong as it is now if not for espeon being able to keep its sash intact , some folks don t want to ban dug since that would mean to ''mindlessly copy smogon'' by that logic we should also remove the sleep clause , since smogon has it , remove the freez one and moddy allowed everywhere too anyway I for one am down to try a complex ban too arena trap + magic bounce or even arena trap+magic bounce + wonder guard for OU , this is all for now
  13. I agree that bad match ups are a thing and do exist , they will exist even with or without dug in the tier however , no matter how bad a match up is and you find yourself geting the short end of the stick those bad matchup can still be won ,( and i don t mean won by geting hax/ lucky during the game) there are outs from bat matchups, those outs are comeing or should be comeing from you not you re opponent makeing a mistake ( spolier: wich is the only out that can happen when faceing a dug team) things like double switching for exemple is the most well know out of a bad matchup , good switching in a bad matchup along side risk management of when to stop geting momentum with switching and start attacking or doing something else that gives you progress , like geting up rocks/hazzzards, are the bread and butter of geting out of the bad matchup and wining that bad matchup . I know that those things are not possible in every matchup , some are so unplayble that nothing can save you and yet more offten then not you can still pull a vicotry over a bad matchup , ofcourse it does require you to stay on top of the game and make no mistakes but it is possible and that is one of the beautys of competitive mons. Dug being the way it is , double switching its no longer an option since not all of you re pokemon want to face dug , most of them will die in one move from dug and then you are left with no answers for you re opponents threats you re bigest out from this bad matchup is already out of the question . The second out wiche would be geting hazzards up , keeping hazzards up and spreading damage is also out of the question , all of this one thanks to dugs strong synergy with MB espeon and shedninja , like i said above the synergym of those 3 is so strong and overwhelming that you are constantly faceing 3 mons all at oance , you can t even reliably get hazzards up against this team , i know since ive faced this team a fair bit already at this point , if you do get them up most likely means you are out of resources to have a chance at wining . The fact that this dug team has a low usage rate makes thigns even worse , since you won t see it comeing and preparing for it in the builder means you have to use something like hydregon or wevile , im not saing that those are bad mons and thet they have no other purpuse other then being good against this team however this makes it very restrictive to teambuilding , not to mention that volc can easly come in and scare both of those 2 out since it beats them quite hard tl:dr ban dug
  14. Yes , yes , yes , THANK YOU! THANK YOU 100 TIMES! ❤️ Finally we can discuss about this expect there is not much to discuss , to me dug dosen t have uber support characteristics , however dug and its arena trap it is as unhealthy and uncompetitive as it can get , main problem being how well it pairs with its best buddys magic bound espeon and shedninja , this synergy alone is so powerful that despite the format being 6v6 - 1v1 at a time , dug makes it fell like a 1v3 at a time and you can t do anything regarding this combo , some may say use x or use y and this makes it even more restrictive to teambuilding There is no positive aspect dug and its anthics bring to the game idc what anyone says dug is toxic and promots a toxic playstyle , please ban it soon Thank you
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