Randoms Feedback / Discussion Thread

[Munya]

Just making sure it wasn't something we weren't aware of, sometimes people think something is reported and then it never ends up actually being done.

[Poufilou]

On 9/3/2022 at 9:54 PM, Bertolfoso said:

 

I think there's a bug here, probably something with the Rotom forms, as I have 3 grass types on my team

 

Also this bug that's never been taken care of zzzz 

[Sargeste]

Yeah all the Rotom forms are clearly in the randomizer as the base Electric-Ghost type so it just picks one and slaps it in the team. The same thing happens with Wormadam, where all three forms are read as the base Bug-Grass type.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Sargeste

[Posidonseas]

Idk if it has been issued again but imo dustox with id-qd-roost should be banned.

I ve never lost a game with this in my team and only once won against it - had aggron head smash is why

[caioxlive13]

10 hours ago, Posidonseas said:

Idk if it has been issued again but imo dustox with id-qd-roost should be banned.

I ve never lost a game with this in my team and only once won against it - had aggron head smash is why

is a Crit-me-not set, exists others 200 sets like that on randoms. Also, Bans doesn't exist on randoms. They remove usually useless sets, and downgrade the level of the mon if he got a high winrate, or one of their sets do that. 

[Sargeste]

13 hours ago, Posidonseas said:

Idk if it has been issued again but imo dustox with id-qd-roost should be banned.

I ve never lost a game with this in my team and only once won against it - had aggron head smash is why

I think removing recovery from these kinds of sets is better than flat out getting rid of them.

[Posidonseas]

5 minutes ago, Sargeste said:

I think removing recovery from these kinds of sets is better than flat out getting rid of them.

Yeah i think this could work too. 

But seriously its ridiculous having like 5 poke either u or the opponent and left with dustox winning the game. 

I mean it can happen and happens with shell smashing pokes but they r still easier to counter

[Poufilou]

I also feel like this Dustox one is particularly strong, you can't even hax it out because of its ability. It's also quite easy to "hide", you only really fear rock/fire/flying (rock and flying being easily revealed because of Stealth Rock/ground immunity), and if you bait them to be revealed you can easily setup iron defense or quiver dance depending on their offense attack and it's basically gg. Even Trick/Switcheroo is annoying cos you don't want to do it when you don't know it's set yet (some quiver don't have iron defense) and get Sludge on your mon for nothing. I also think I never lost with this pokemon.

 

I don't know if it will be removed or not because statistics is kinda weak to determine if it's really strong or not because there are an outstanding number of people playing Randoms that have no idea what they are doing and it makes the OP stuff look weak in numbers. Lol. 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Poufilou

[Offlliner]

Will we be able to get shaymin in randoms?

[DaftKitteh]

On 11/13/2022 at 6:00 AM, deletee said:

What is up with the abundance of gimmicky crit-me-not sweepers in randoms? It is seriously detrimental to the ladder and to some has made repeated games borderline unplayable.

 

There are far too many sets that are unviable outside of this hellish randoms meta PokeMMO has birthed. I mean really, we have countless throwaway sets showcasing defense boosting moves with rest, and that's fun?

 

It seems immensely counterintuitive to litter this gamemode with an absurd amount of sets that do not reward good plays, nor predictions, nor even a basic understanding of competitive play (because the sets are uncompetitive)! The cherry on top is how regularly we run into game states that result in mind-numblingly long battles that boil down to whoever can roll better RNG first. Yes, Pokémon will always be heavily influenced by RNG, and this is increased tenfold in a literally random metagame, however this is not the "wild card" factor we should aim for.

 

I'm shocked no one has remarked on how damaging this commonality is in a mode that, by design, is meant for a slightly more fast-paced and casual experience compared to other ladders. 

I came here to say pretty much this, and I'm glad I didn't have to put the effort in to make it cohesive. 

More specifically, this part
 

Quote

It seems immensely counterintuitive to litter this gamemode with an absurd amount of sets that do not reward good plays, nor predictions, nor even a basic understanding of competitive play (because the sets are uncompetitive)!  The cherry on top is how regularly we run into game states that result in mind-numblingly long battles

Things like Lickitung, Seed-sub Jumpluff, Cosmic Power users, etc. become literal win cards with very minimal strategy required.  Lickitung especially, with it's heal bell/wish/seismic toss set, may as well have a move called "Skill issue" that uninstalls it's opponents client if they lack a fighting type.  Basically anything with a health-recovery move is one mistake/bad-team-roll away from sweeping half-or-all of your team in a spectacularly snail-paced fashion.  Stat boost sets with Nasty Plot, Quiver Dance, Swords Dance etc. help counteract these things, but present their own issues.  If my matches don't go the way of "Well fug, his lead can super effective 5/6 of my team", or "Literally nothing I have can out damage it's heals", it goes the route of "hueuehuheuheue one quiver dance/nasty plot and I'm plowing through the whole team".  Very few wins or losses felt like I really earned them, and I think moving the extreme offense/defense sets a little closer to the center balance would re-orientate gameplay towards strategy instead of team-rolls.

Recovery moves should be a tool to be used when you predict your opponent will switch out, not a tool to outstall any sets that can't do more than 50% damage without a crit. 
Likewise, stat buffs should be less about sweeping an entire team of 100% health bars, and more-so a lategame strategy to apply after you've chipped your opponent down. 

That said, randoms has been so phenomenally well balanced since the start, all things considered, that I'm honestly impressed at the results.  The quirky sets and huge diversity between matches is phenomenal and keeps the gameplay fresh.  I keep logging in because of the addition of this tier, which speaks to the fact that it's literally the greatest thing to be added to the game.  After burning out due to 5k hours in Runescape, and 4k in Pmmo, I'm tired of the grind and like that I have the option to just play the game and chat with people. 

#RandomsBestTier

Disclaimer:  I've always been pissy about wall sets so take my complaints/criticism with a grain of salt. TLDR: skill issue

Edited August 20, 2023 by DaftKitteh
I wrote this after pulling an all nighter and felt like ranting

[Poufilou]

 

The automated leveling balance does not work for "original" forms of Rotom and Wormadam ; despite being lowest every month, they actually lose level instead of gaining it, while the other forms, in the upper part, do not change level and stay consistently strong / actually gained level somehow despite being at the highest. 

 

Randoms has become pretty boring for a while now, since there is no novelty in that format, despite new HAs, despite new moves, despite some mons that can clearly have better sets. If you guys don't want to make efforts into that format, then remove its slot to give it to a better one like LC. Or make Randoms a limited event-thing with special prizes idk. 

[caioxlive13]

7 hours ago, Poufilou said:

 

The automated leveling balance does not work for "original" forms of Rotom and Wormadam ; despite being lowest every month, they actually lose level instead of gaining it, while the other forms, in the upper part, do not change level and stay consistently strong / actually gained level somehow despite being at the highest. 

 

I think just like the randomizer, the automated leveling consider all alternate forms of rotom as rotom. So the high ones are OP but who is actually takings the debuffs are the base forms.

[Poufilou]

3 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

I think just like the randomizer, the automated leveling consider all alternate forms of rotom as rotom. So the high ones are OP but who is actually takings the debuffs are the base forms.

Wow, I never thought of that. I don't think anyone reading my message would have had this deduction. You are very smart and your comments are always helpful. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Poufilou

[Matthzinxl]

This is low priority and I honestly don't care one bit, but when should this receive an update?

[Rache]

2 hours ago, Matthzinxl said:

This is low priority and I honestly don't care one bit, but when should this receive an update?

I haven't been able to give the format any significant attention for a while, but I'd like to put some time towards it early next year once we're done with this set of seasonal events.

[drewq]

38 minutes ago, Rache said:

I haven't been able to give the format any significant attention for a while, but I'd like to put some time towards it early next year once we're done with this set of seasonal events.

This is a rare chance to make the game better by doing less work. Remove this disaster of a tier 🥰

[Sargeste]

1 hour ago, drewq said:

This is a rare chance to make the game better by doing less work. Remove this disaster of a tier 🥰

Don't flat out remove it, remove the ladder. It's still included in a lot of fun unofficial events and in my opinion that's where it's most enjoyable.

[gbwead]

It's not really interesting to see the same sets being played over and over, especially since those do not get updated.

Auto generating the mons based on all the data guathered in the OU/UU/NU ladders would be ideal imo. It's an enormous amount of work to constantly update manually the database of these sets. There is so many things to improve in PokeMMO. Updating Randoms manually when it could be done automatically seems like a colossal waste of time.

Edit: There was 150 000 Garchomps sets that won games in OU in October 2023. The data is getting collected already. When you receive a Garchomp on your team for Randoms, it should be one of the 150 000 Garchomp sets that were played and tested already. This would keep random interesting. There is no reason to limit each mons to a few bland sets when there is litteraly a gold mine of data that could be used to spice things up.

On top of that, if the Randoms ladder was using true competitive sets that are relevant in the OU/UU/NU ladder, it would make it easier for new players to be introduced to the PokeMMO metas. The Randoms ladder is right now completly disconnected for the competitive scene and there is big missed opportunity there.

Edited November 16, 2023 by gbwead

[caioxlive13]

42 minutes ago, gbwead said:

It's not really interesting to see the same sets being played over and over, especially since those do not get updated.

Auto generating the mons based on all the data guathered in the OU/UU/NU ladders would be ideal imo. It's an enormous amount of work to constantly update manually the database of these sets. There is so many things to improve in PokeMMO. Updating Randoms manually when it could be done automatically seems like a colossal waste of time.

Edit: There was 150 000 Garchomps sets that won games in OU in October 2023. The data is getting collected already. When you receive a Garchomp on your team for Randoms, it should be one of the 150 000 Garchomp sets that were played and tested already. This would keep random interesting. There is no reason to limit each mons to a few bland sets when there is litteraly a gold mine of data that could be used to spice things up.

On top of that, if the Randoms ladder was using true competitive sets that are relevant in the OU/UU/NU ladder, it would make it easier for new players to be introduced to the PokeMMO metas. The Randoms ladder is right now completly disconnected for the competitive scene and there is big missed opportunity there.

Is a noteable thing.

I've played for the Challenge league today on randoms , and my opponent showed a Subs + SD Gallade. Even being good, the most optimal version with subs, would be with Bulk Up. This is the top choice for Gallade on OU that doesn't run AV s*** or Scarfed sets.

But sometimes is because the format is just outdated that the properly sets can't be implemented. On same duel i had a nidoking. It was full physical. However, if the HAs was on the format, the best set for the Nidoking would be full Special, or some mixed s***

I think when everything came back to normal(After LNY probably), i hope the randoms get some attention.

Edited November 16, 2023 by caioxlive13

[TohnR]

On 12/20/2022 at 12:14 AM, Poufilou said:

Also this bug that's never been taken care of zzzz 

I opened this at work with sound on. I hate you now 🤣

[Raichuforyou]

I'm going to say this again, but sets where a Pokemon is using its opposite attacking stat that is normally its highest (Bellossom using Leaf Blade instead of Giga Drain, Rapidash using Flamethrower instead of Flare Blitz) does not feel good at all, especially when both special attacking AND normal attacking sets have the potential to be selected. It can be a guessing game for some Pokemon on what set they're going to run, and make some switch ins with mons like Blissey a gamble at times. It feels good to surprise someone with these weird sets, but I'd argue that the "net fun" of being at the receiving end of it outweighs its benefits and overall health to the tier.

I don't think Showdown functions like this at all, and generally makes somewhat static sets that stick to the general strengths of a mon. I get the argument that putting both attacking and special attacking sets as options makes the gamemode more "random" but I don't think it achieves the right balance between randomness and strategic gameplay. In Showdown, randoms tends to prioritize unpredictability while still ensuring that the sets make sense within the framework of a Pokémon's natural strengths and weaknesses. This approach keeps battles interesting without compromising the overall integrity of the game.

[caioxlive13]

17 hours ago, Raichuforyou said:

I'm going to say this again, but sets where a Pokemon is using its opposite attacking stat that is normally its highest (Bellossom using Leaf Blade instead of Giga Drain, Rapidash using Flamethrower instead of Flare Blitz) does not feel good at all, especially when both special attacking AND normal attacking sets have the potential to be selected. It can be a guessing game for some Pokemon on what set they're going to run, and make some switch ins with mons like Blissey a gamble at times. It feels good to surprise someone with these weird sets, but I'd argue that the "net fun" of being at the receiving end of it outweighs its benefits and overall health to the tier.

Sometimes the sets are good, like the Nidoking Physical set i got in the Challenge League. But i think it should use mostly sets from PvP, with some exceptions handled individually. 
For example, for Nidoking,  the Special sets outclass Physical sets, but this doesn't mean Physical sets are bad. Garchomps use mainly Physical Attackers or lead sets, but a Mixchomp or Tankchomp is not a bad option.

For tiered mons, i think should evaluate the sets individually, but for untiered mons, then focus on which sets are best.

[Skytenker]

 

Hitmonchan counters my whole team lol, is this just bad luck or a bug?

[caioxlive13]

On 11/28/2023 at 4:02 PM, Skytenker said:

 

Hitmonchan counters my whole team lol, is this just bad luck or a bug?

Bad luck, happens. It's randoms.