DoubleJ Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 What is this? This thread is being opened to discuss Porygon-Z and its presence in the Underused Tier (UU). Porygon-Z is being considered a potential Offensive Uber in UU. Why? Porygon-Z has an outstanding offensive presence and can readily decimate opposing teams with little to no support. Its abilities, both Download and Adaptability, allow it to increase its already outstanding power to pressure many defensive teams and cores. It has a knack for being able to 2HKO the majority of the tier and has resulted in the movement of several Neverused pokemon, or rise in previously less used Pokemon, just to check it (think Gigalith, Spiritomb, Dusclops, Mismagius, etc). It's access to Trick, Recover, Teleport, and a variety of other support moves also add to its success. Was a Quick Ban considered? Porygon-Z was suspected earlier in the year by the Tier Council and determined to not be an offensive uber at the time. Since then, several dramatic changes have occurred to UU including the movement of Heracross and Metagross (two premier checks), as well as the addition of Lucario and Porygon2 (now both banned). Given that it was deemed acceptable then despite its overwhelming statistics, abilities, and movepool, the Tier Council felt it was appropriate to re-evaluate it, rather than Quick Ban it. Downside? Porygon-Z is rather fragile and can be Pursuit trapped when locked into certain moves. Unlike its pre-Evolution Porygon2, this Pokemon really does not have the sustainability to make a lasting impact and is used as either a hit-and-run cannon or a tactician with a well-timed Trick. While having impressive power, boosted Tri-Attack still has trouble breaking through counters such as Gigalith and Bronzong. It also has an unfavorable speed tier, which means that the majority of other Choice Scarf users outspeed it. Overall, Porygon-Z has proven to be a menace on paper but less problematic in practice. Calculations? Spoiler +1 252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 126-148 (65.6 - 77%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock +1 252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Heat: 100-118 (63.6 - 75.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock 252 SpA Porygon-Z Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 62-74 (35.6 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery +1 252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Flygon: 127-150 (81.9 - 96.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock +1 252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Krookodile: 139-165 (81.7 - 97%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock +1 252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Vaporeon: 109-129 (45.9 - 54.4%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery +1 252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arcanine: 127-150 (64.4 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 78-92 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Swampert: 55-66 (26.5 - 31.8%) -- 94% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 42-51 (20.7 - 25.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery Please discuss ? Link to comment
gbwead Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 15 minutes ago, DoubleJ said: +1 252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 126-148 (65.6 - 77%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock +1 252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Heat: 100-118 (63.6 - 75.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock 252 SpA Porygon-Z Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 62-74 (35.6 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery +1 252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Flygon: 127-150 (81.9 - 96.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock +1 252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Krookodile: 139-165 (81.7 - 97%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock +1 252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Vaporeon: 109-129 (45.9 - 54.4%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery +1 252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arcanine: 127-150 (64.4 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 78-92 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Swampert: 55-66 (26.5 - 31.8%) -- 94% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 42-51 (20.7 - 25.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery Imagine Adaptability xD DoubleJ, Quinn010, Luke and 2 others 5 Link to comment
caioxlive13 Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 7 hours ago, DoubleJ said: What is this? This thread is being opened to discuss Porygon-Z and its presence in the Underused Tier (UU). Porygon-Z is being considered a potential Offensive Uber in UU. Why? Porygon-Z has an outstanding offensive presence and can readily decimate opposing teams with little to no support. Its abilities, both Download and Adaptability, allow it to increase its already outstanding power to pressure many defensive teams and cores. It has a knack for being able to 2HKO the majority of the tier and has resulted in the movement of several Neverused pokemon, or rise in previously less used Pokemon, just to check it (think Gigalith, Spiritomb, Dusclops, Mismagius, etc). It's access to Trick, Recover, Teleport, and a variety of other support moves also add to its success. Was a Quick Ban considered? Porygon-Z was suspected earlier in the year by the Tier Council and determined to not be an offensive uber at the time. Since then, several dramatic changes have occurred to UU including the movement of Heracross and Metagross (two premier checks), as well as the addition of Lucario and Porygon2 (now both banned). Given that it was deemed acceptable then despite its overwhelming statistics, abilities, and movepool, the Tier Council felt it was appropriate to re-evaluate it, rather than Quick Ban it. Downside? Porygon-Z is rather fragile and can be Pursuit trapped when locked into certain moves. Unlike its pre-Evolution Porygon2, this Pokemon really does not have the sustainability to make a lasting impact and is used as either a hit-and-run cannon or a tactician with a well-timed Trick. While having impressive power, boosted Tri-Attack still has trouble breaking through counters such as Gigalith and Bronzong. It also has an unfavorable speed tier, which means that the majority of other Choice Scarf users outspeed it. Overall, Porygon-Z has proven to be a menace on paper but less problematic in practice. Calculations? Hide contents +1 252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 126-148 (65.6 - 77%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock +1 252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Heat: 100-118 (63.6 - 75.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock 252 SpA Porygon-Z Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 62-74 (35.6 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery +1 252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Flygon: 127-150 (81.9 - 96.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock +1 252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Krookodile: 139-165 (81.7 - 97%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock +1 252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Vaporeon: 109-129 (45.9 - 54.4%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery +1 252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arcanine: 127-150 (64.4 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 SpA Porygon-Z Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 78-92 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Swampert: 55-66 (26.5 - 31.8%) -- 94% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 42-51 (20.7 - 25.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery Please discuss ? Porygon-z doesn't have good defenses, unlike your pre-evolution Porygon2, have with the help of eviolite. So... Anything that can survive to porygon can kill him with some moves. Let's Use Swampert as a example: 0 Atk Swampert Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 157-186 (50.4 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Even without Atk invesment, he can without trouble 2HKO a Porygon-Z252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Swampert: 55-66 (26.5 - 31.8%) -- 94% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery And without Trouble, resist to it. Now, let's Check Flygon. 252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Flygon: 216-256 (59.3 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock Flygon can't enter with safety to counter a Porygon, but still can enter after a ally fall down. 252+ Atk Choice Band Flygon Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 271-319 (87.1 - 102.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock And Knock out him with only one Outrage. Note: Before calc the damage, i remember to Nerf Outrage's BP to 90, that are the power of him in PokéMMO. 252+ Atk Choice Band Flygon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 300-354 (96.4 - 113.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock Or Knock him out with a Earthq.uake Cristi 1 Link to comment
LifeStyleNORE Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 6 hours ago, caioxlive13 said: Porygon-z doesn't have good defenses, unlike your pre-evolution Porygon2, have with the help of eviolite. So... Anything that can survive to porygon can kill him with some moves. Let's Use Swampert as a example: 0 Atk Swampert Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 157-186 (50.4 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Even without Atk invesment, he can without trouble 2HKO a Porygon-Z252 SpA Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Swampert: 55-66 (26.5 - 31.8%) -- 94% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery And without Trouble, resist to it. Now, let's Check Flygon. 252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Flygon: 216-256 (59.3 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock Flygon can't enter with safety to counter a Porygon, but still can enter after a ally fall down. 252+ Atk Choice Band Flygon Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 271-319 (87.1 - 102.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock And Knock out him with only one Outrage. Note: Before calc the damage, i remember to Nerf Outrage's BP to 90, that are the power of him in PokéMMO. 252+ Atk Choice Band Flygon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 300-354 (96.4 - 113.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock Or Knock him out with a Earthq.uake why do you calc without Adaptability vs Swampert? Also your Choice Band Flygon runs 252 HP, wtf? Kupokun and razimove 1 1 Link to comment
caioxlive13 Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 54 minutes ago, LifeStyleNORE said: why do you calc without Adaptability vs Swampert? Also your Choice Band Flygon runs 252 HP, wtf? The calc of Flygon is based on some flygons that are showed up in PT Global. And the damage of tri-attack on Swampert is a Copypaste of the calc that DoubleJ showed up Cristi 1 Link to comment
caioxlive13 Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 (edited) And for Porygon-Z Scarfed/Specs, the counter is Dugtrio + Flying-Type/Normal-type Resistance. Why? If you enter with a Flying-type/Normal-Type Resistance in Field, is almost certain that Porygon will run Thunderbolt, but he is Scarfed.... I don't need to tell what happens if you predict and put the Dugtrio. Can Free Buff and attack. Abusing of Dugtrio's Speed, can even Sweep some Teams, if you sucessfully Trap Porygon-Z. Arena Trap Cannot let he leave field, and if he are Locked in Thunderbolt... No damage,and opponent can Forfeit or watch the Sweep. Edited November 1, 2021 by caioxlive13 Cristi 1 Link to comment
LifeStyleNORE Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 8 hours ago, caioxlive13 said: The calc of Flygon is based on some flygons that are showed up in PT Global. ? Flygon needs to outspeed PoryZ or otherwise is not a threat to it. 8 hours ago, caioxlive13 said: And the damage of tri-attack on Swampert is a Copypaste of the calc that DoubleJ showed up ok then JJ is bad, try calcing specs adaptability and see what happens when Swampert comes in 8 hours ago, caioxlive13 said: And for Porygon-Z Scarfed/Specs, the counter is Dugtrio + Flying-Type/Normal-type Resistance. Why? If you enter with a Flying-type/Normal-Type Resistance in Field, is almost certain that Porygon will run Thunderbolt, but he is Scarfed.... I don't need to tell what happens if you predict and put the Dugtrio. Can Free Buff and attack. Abusing of Dugtrio's Speed, can even Sweep some Teams, if you sucessfully Trap Porygon-Z. Arena Trap Cannot let he leave field, and if he are Locked in Thunderbolt... No damage,and opponent can Forfeit or watch the Sweep. you need to be an actual monkey to lock yourself into tbolt in such a scenario Link to comment
RysPicz Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 7 hours ago, LifeStyleNORE said: why do you calc without Adaptability vs Swampert? Also your Choice Band Flygon runs 252 HP, wtf? 17 minutes ago, LifeStyleNORE said: ? Flygon needs to outspeed PoryZ or otherwise is not a threat to it. ok then JJ is bad, try calcing specs adaptability and see what happens when Swampert comes in you need to be an actual monkey to lock yourself into tbolt in such a scenario Don't bother. Just ignore him. He constantly derails discussions with unrealistic calcs and arguments out of this world. He doesn't understand what's a check or counter either and refuses to try to understand. I was warned about him several times by multiple different people already, apparently he tries the same stuff on global. CaptnBaklava, suigin and Meltdown 3 Link to comment
razimove Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 4 hours ago, LifeStyleNORE said: ? Flygon needs to outspeed PoryZ or otherwise is not a threat to it. ok then JJ is bad, try calcing specs adaptability and see what happens when Swampert comes in you need to be an actual monkey to lock yourself into tbolt in such a scenario He's just a sad troll, and a pretty bad one at that. Regarding PZ, I think on all those calcs JJ, the only I would consider relevant is Empoleon, as that's generally the common set. 252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 240 HP / 252+ SpD Swampert: 108-128 (52.6 - 62.4%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 240 HP / 252+ SpD Swampert: 94-112 (45.8 - 54.6%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 240 HP / 252+ SpD Swampert: 72-86 (35.1 - 41.9%) -- 80.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery assuming that he doens't setup on your switch ofc. Legit the only viable one I can think of is empoleon and bronzong in that list. Imo the best way to deal with him is to pressure him offensively as it is right now, defensively is pretty hard due to adaptability, and access to a significantly big movepool. Link to comment
Quinn010 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) who run sp def swamp to wall pz lol Edited November 2, 2021 by Quinn010 PizzaConewe 1 Link to comment
caioxlive13 Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 (edited) I don't know why a discussion so soon for PorygonZ to go up or not to UUBL/BL1. Even approved in November, the Quick ban can only occur in the 1st month, so Porygon stays until the end of this season, at UU, giving Pokemons Never Used a chance to go up to check Porygon, or even a definitive Counter , Who knows? In other words, porygon can be OP in UU, but it was too early to think about banning him, and if he was to ban immediately, he would have to ban in the first month. On 10/31/2021 at 9:17 AM, DoubleJ said: It has a knack for being able to 2HKO the majority of the tier and has resulted in the movement of several Neverused pokemon, or rise in previously less used Pokemon, just to check it (think Gigalith, Spiritomb, Dusclops, Mismagius, etc). It's access to Trick, Recover, Teleport, and a variety of other support moves also add to its success. And that of raising pokemon to counter or check Porygon-Z wasn't all bad. Frees the Never used of some pokemons that countered several of UT, and with their departure, these Pokemons from Untiered will have the chance to show something on Never Used, and who knows, maybe it doesn't create a beautiful story like Stoutland, which even appeared in the competitive team of Brazilian Youtuber Allen, from Canal Cucco Productions (This one knows how to play well and it's very common to see him with unusual strategies, but that work), and became a pokemon that despite being in UT, is a pokemon to stay with eye in case of you face one in PvP. Who knows right? Untiered Pokemon in the hand of those who know how to play right, does more miracles than OU pokemons. Edited November 3, 2021 by caioxlive13 Link to comment
Huargensy Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 30 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said: No sé por qué una discusión tan pronto para que PorygonZ suba o no a UUBL / BL1. Incluso aprobado en noviembre, la prohibición rápida solo puede ocurrir en el primer mes, por lo que Porygon se queda hasta el final de esta temporada, en UU, lo que le da a Pokemons Never Used la oportunidad de subir para verificar Porygon, o incluso un Counter definitivo, quién sabe. ? En otras palabras, porygon puede ser OP en UU, pero era demasiado pronto para pensar en prohibirlo, y si lo prohibiera de inmediato, tendría que hacerlo en el primer mes. Y eso de criar Pokémon para contrarrestar o controlar a Porygon-Z no fue del todo malo. Libera el Nunca usado de algunos pokemons que contrarrestaron a varios de UT, y con su partida, estos Pokemons de Untiered tendrán la oportunidad de mostrar algo en Never Used, y quién sabe, tal vez no cree una historia hermosa como Stoutland, que Incluso apareció en el equipo competitivo del Youtuber brasileño Allen, de Canal Cucco Productions (Este sabe jugar bien y es muy común verlo con estrategias inusuales, pero que funcionan), y se convirtió en un pokemon que a pesar de estar en UT, es un pokemon para que te quedes con el ojo en caso de que te enfrentes a uno en PvP. ¿Quién sabe verdad? Un Pokémon sin ataduras en la mano de aquellos que saben jugar bien, hace más milagros que los pokemons de OU. ? Link to comment
Munya Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 Things can be banned in any month, things COULD be banned in the middle of the third month if the need ever arose, though we would just prefer not to do that. Tests on the other hand we prefer to do in the first month as they could span a few months and we'd want it to effect the tiers less with something that could very well be temporary as opposed to a ban which is much more long term. DoubleJ 1 Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted November 11, 2021 Author Share Posted November 11, 2021 PoryZ so broke it don't even get used. Link to comment
Quinn010 Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 ban pz before psl start this thing barely got switch ins especially now metagross Porygon2 etc is gone Link to comment
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