counter for sub poke in general

[Plbbrt]

Recently, I made a post about how to counter sub garchomp.. and i found out about umbreon-foul play and now i can beat him easily.. but now im having a lot of trouble with sub pokemon in general like gengar, breloom and volcarona.. for gengar, i go with special wall chansey who can also use psychic.. it works well but annoying gengar has focus blast which could kill my chansey if it doesnt miss as much as it should.. for breloom, i use cofagrigus but annoying breloom uses spore and spoils everything.. for volcarona, i use chansey-toxic-wish but annoying volcarona has high speed and uses substitute for which toxic doesnt work and then he sets up and ruins everything..

 

so which poke is a hard solid counter to these sub pokes? i dont like pokemon that use roar or whirlwind since i feel that that just postpones the problem sub pokes create.. i dont like cloyster since it loses to volcarona fire and breloom fighting..

[CaptnBaklava]

Cloyster beats them all after 1 shellshmash 

[caioxlive13]

10 hours ago, Plbbrt said:

 

 

so which poke is a hard solid counter to these sub pokes? 

Multi hit moves, that breaks substitute and keep hitting, and Moves that are Sound-based, like Hyper Voice or Bug Buzz, to Bypass Substitute.

Can use Encore to make opponent switch or waste Substitute's PP, or Taunt to prevent their use(if no Substitute has active before the move's use.)

Edited December 23, 2021 by caioxlive13

[caioxlive13]

11 hours ago, Plbbrt said:

For volcarona, i use chansey-toxic-wish but annoying volcarona has high speed and uses substitute for which toxic doesnt work and then he sets up and ruins everything..

Annoying Strategy VS Annoying Volcarona. Fair fight.

Volca subs is just for prevent Toxic Stall, the most annoying strategy from Matchmaking actually.

Edited December 23, 2021 by caioxlive13

[Plbbrt]

 

1 hour ago, caioxlive13 said:

Annoying Strategy VS Annoying Volcarona. Fair fight

xD

 

 

 

Thank you both ^^

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Plbbrt

[DiosSlurpuff]

It's not a counter, it's more of a check, but Weavile Beat Up + Icircle spear has served me well for that type of threat, it's a matter of entering cleanly (After tp, volt switch, uturn) and throwing beat up or icircle depending on the threat... He could deal with Garchomp, Hydreigon, gengar, chandelure and togekiss, although he will probably have problems with Volca sub QD and Scizor sub SD, but he can stop most of them (As another possible counter to setups of that style, you have been mentioned Cloyster, and could also beat Volca sub, but you should avoid entry hazards if or if)

[JohntheJester]

I use scarf cloyster to deal with sub setupers, more reliable than weavile since with weavile you can get 2 or 3 hits with icicle and then mon behind the sub survives and kills you. Cloyster always get 5 hits and that gives enought damage to break the sub and kill mon behind sub even at 80 or more. kills sub garchomp, hydre, gengar, breloom, volcarona if it hasnt set up.

[TohnR]

I don't see it mentionned but "phazing" moves such as Roar & Whirlwind also helps with forcing a switch on Pokemon that would be trying to setup under a sub
Other than that, as mentionned sound moves ignore substitutes such as Hyper Voice or Bug Buzz and you can deal with substitutes using multi hit moves but those 2 scenarios are a bit specific and not every team will afford running those. 

Another solution is to use a faster pivot with Volt Switch or U-Turn to break the sub, but that requires to have a switch in to the said Pokemon, otherwise you'll lose something (such as your Psywave Chansey + a scarf Rotom for Gengar). Also worth noting that some utility moves can hit your target while they're under a substitute such as Taunt or Encore that will help you prevent them from setting up and potentially dealing with them in the long run !

Edited March 15, 2022 by TohnR