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[UU Discussion] Dugtrio


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3 hours ago, GasaiYunoSan said:

I was waiting for this post. What is Dugtrio's problem? The pokemon individually is not a big problem, however, when you find a duo good enough for dugtrio to break almost an entire meta then that's when Dugtrio becomes a big problem, the current problem is Dugtrio + PZ OR Yanmega, even if they ban PZ, Yanmega + Dugtrio would still be a problem.
When PorygonZ went down, the players who now ask for the ban of PorygonZ or Dugtrio did not have problems because of PorygonZ, why? because the meta was able to adapt, and as a consequence we saw the rise of Gigalith to UU, everything seemed to be going well, yes, Dugtrio was in the level, but he did not have 100 base atk, but the great council of the level decided to return the 20 points of atk base on Dugtrio, as a consequence of that buff there was enough damage for PorygonZ to sweep against teams that had Gigalith-Empoleon as their main brake, now to win tournaments you just need to use PorygonZ-Dugtrio and boom, you won a tournament, OMG what good player.
Even if Dugtrio's buff is removed, he will continue to break the meta along with PorygonZ, because people already realized that this duo can kill almost everything, it will not be the solution, simply banning him from UU is the only thing that can be done , but why not ban it from OU? Because it doesn't have a duo with which to destroy the meta or be a great threat, Dugtrio + Togekiss? There's too much rotom for Togekiss to be a huge threat, even if it's not rotom, Weavile destroys both pokemon, and so there are even more brakes that can't be solved with Dugtrio, Dugtrio just won't be a real threat until he meets a duo/strategy strong enough to be a cancer in OU.
Yes, Arena Trap's ability is a cancer in all meta and tiers of all pokemon, but in PokeMMO OU for now it doesn't seem to deserve a ban, it used to be a cancer when used to destroy Chansey/Blissey with Screech and Wobbuffett for the Rain to destroy everything, but currently thanks to Teleport this strategy can no longer be carried out.
#BanDugtrioFromUU

I'm sorry to inform you that these teams usually run rotom and the moment you decide to hit the dark stab, you just lost weavile and your probable response to togekiss, dugtrio does the same at all levels, curiously in OU he has more than trapp than in UU lmfao, the reason why the eye was placed in UU is because of the combination with pZ that the only thing it generates is to provide support to a mon that in itself can destroy teams and eliminate the things that cause problems, mentioning rotom is not a solution to justify it also in Ou, obviously there are things that you will not be able to trap and that exists in all levels, the hab is not competitive, since it prevents the change that is the mechanic par excellence of the game and forcing you to play in a different way, the fact of not being able to eliminate a mon for fear of being RKed by it the next turn for example, there are many still important mons in Ou that can be eliminated by AT, but this thread is not a discussion of Ou and the suggests does not go here

Edited by Huargensy
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I really don’t understand how people can unironically say that Dugtrio wouldn’t run riot in OU like it has done in the lower tiers. I’m in agreement with Gb that it has the exact same function and impact no matter where it is. In OU it would be able to reliably remove 2 of the best checks to Togekiss in Magneton and Tyranitar. It would also heavily suppress many sweepers such as Gengar, Lucario, Weavile and Infernape depending on the items used. Outside of this, its access to memento can allow one of the many powerful OU sweepers to set up effectively for free with no consistent counter play. All of this is before we even consider pairing it with teleport.

 

In UU it invalidates Empoleon and Gigalith which are the best checks to two of the strongest sweepers in Yanmega and P-Z, one of which is already borderline bannable. Not to mention that it also consistently traps and RKs sweepers such as Alakazam, Bisharp, Roserade, Medicham and Arcanine. 
 

In NU it had more of an impact on sweepers than walls as it easily trapped and killed Drapion, Blaziken, Houndoom, Manectric, Magmortar and many more; giving the Dugtrio user an almost guaranteed revenge kill any time these mons stayed in to claim a kill. It was also a menace when memento was paired with setup sweepers such as Omastar and Bibarel. 

 

It doesn’t take a genius to realise that arena trap is a problem and that it needs to be addressed to finally settle this discussion. LC isn’t recognised as an official tier anymore so we shouldn’t even be considering Trapinch in this discussion at all.

Edited by Zymogen
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16 minutes ago, Zymogen said:

I really don’t understand how people can legitimately say that Dugtrio wouldn’t run riot in OU like it has done in the lower tiers. I’m in agreement with Gb that it has the exact same function and impact no matter where it is. In OU it would be able to consistently remove 2 of the best checks to Togekiss in Magneton and Tyranitar. It would also heavily suppress many sweepers such as Gengar, Lucario, Weavile and Infernape depending on the items used. Outside of this, its access to memento can allow one of the many powerful OU sweepers to set up effectively for free with no consistent counter play. All of this is before we even consider pairing it with teleport.

 

In UU it invalidates Empoleon and Gigalith which are the most consistent checks to two of the strongest sweepers in Yanmega and P-Z. Not to mention that it also consistently traps and RKs sweepers such as Alakazam, Bisharp and Arcanine.
 

In NU it had more of an impact on sweepers than walls as it easily trapped and killed Drapion, Blaziken, Houndoom, Manectric, Magmortar and many more; giving the Dugtrio user an almost guaranteed revenge kill any time these mons stayed in to claim a kill. It was also a menace when memento was paired with setup sweepers such as Omastar and Bibarel.

 

It doesn’t take a genius to realise that arena trap is a problem and that it needs to be addressed to finally settle this discussion. LC isn’t recognised as an official tier anymore so we shouldn’t even be considering Trapinch in this discussion at all.

The problem to Devs nerf Dugtrio:

They cannot limit Arena Trap's quantity of turns that abillity will work, because will not solve the problem. Dugtrio only need to opponent mon being unable to flee, for 1 turn.
They cannot remove Dugtrio's Arena Trap, because Dugtrio only have two acessible abilities, both Anti-competitive: Sand Veil and Arena Trap.
Nerf any stat of dugtrio will only make TC lose months after months discussing Dugtrio on Low Tiers.

I agree that Dugtrio is a mon terrible to face, i already face Solir's team several times and lose because lost my main stallbreak(Darmanitan) to a Dugtrio. However, dugtrio have very low usage on OU, so Devs will not ban him probablly, like Hax itens: They don't ban because are Low-usage items(When devs nerfed him, today the hax itens have more sucess.).

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I just searched for "Dugtrio" in the competitive alley. Found 3 threads dedicated especially to it. Realized I made around 120 posts about this mon and it's ability in multiple threads, over the course of 7 years. Can we just ban it once and for all? How many times do we need to repeat ourselves, how many times do we need to use same exact arguments we used in the past, how many times do we have to convince others that Dugtrio is- probably- the most uncompetitive pokemon ever created?

 

Also pls staff for god's sake if you can't ban that caio dude, at least mute him or take away access from competitive alley

 

E:

Just FYI, every single Dugtrio discussion in the history of this game ended with a ban. Every single time.

Edited by RysPicz
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Why do you still talk about this? Just ban it lmfao, everyone is saying they are pro-ban except that random kid that keeps spamming nonsense in every single thread, and which you keep responding to for some reason that I don't understand. 

 

Like, seriously, what is the hold up???? I'm genuinely curious. 

Edited by LeJovi
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2 hours ago, LeJovi said:

Why do you still talk about this? Just ban it lmfao, everyone is saying they are pro-ban except that random kid that keeps spamming nonsense in every single thread, and which you keep responding to for some reason that I don't understand. 

 

Like, seriously, what is the hold up???? I'm genuinely curious. 

i dont want dugtrio banned too...

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5 hours ago, LeJovi said:

Why do you still talk about this? Just ban it lmfao, everyone is saying they are pro-ban except that random kid that keeps spamming nonsense in every single thread, and which you keep responding to for some reason that I don't understand. 

 

Like, seriously, what is the hold up???? I'm genuinely curious. 

okay, dugtrio need to be banned, however according to MMO's polices, after something being banned , he need to be nerfed of some way to return to OU. And this is problem. How staff will nerf Dugtrio? Arena Trap only need to work for 1 turn. Remove arena trap not solve the problem, because Sand Veil is one ability that have hundreds of threads(Not literally) asking for a ban on it. Return dugtrio to 80 Atk only will make him go down to NU to be banned and return more hundred of times

Edited by caioxlive13
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1 hour ago, caioxlive13 said:

okay, dugtrio need to be banned, however according to MMO's polices, after something being banned , he need to be nerfed of some way to return to OU. And this is problem. How staff will nerf Dugtrio? Arena Trap only need to work for 1 turn. Remove arena trap not solve the problem, because Sand Veil is one ability that have hundreds of threads(Not literally) asking for a ban on it. Return dugtrio to 80 Atk only will make him go down to NU to be banned and return more hundred of time

I guess you say that dugtrio by the threads of  sand veil as a strategy of rng asking that it be prohibited but the hypocrisy here is so high that they are not interested in that, since dugtrio is not a problem with sand veil so do not be guided by those threads, they kept making fun of you saying that you are talking about something meaningless,  your biggest problem now is dugtrio + sand trap is like arguing with religious, you will never win xD 
#ban sand trap #ban sand veil #ban dugtrio #ban ,ban and more ban

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3 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

okay, dugtrio need to be banned, however according to MMO's polices, after something being banned , he need to be nerfed of some way to return to OU. And this is problem. How staff will nerf Dugtrio? Arena Trap only need to work for 1 turn. Remove arena trap not solve the problem, because Sand Veil is one ability that have hundreds of threads(Not literally) asking for a ban on it. Return dugtrio to 80 Atk only will make him go down to NU to be banned and return more hundred of times

Oh no... Sand veil Dugtrio... Help me pls ?

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4 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

okay, dugtrio need to be banned, however according to MMO's polices, after something being banned , he need to be nerfed of some way to return to OU. And this is problem. How staff will nerf Dugtrio? Arena Trap only need to work for 1 turn. Remove arena trap not solve the problem, because Sand Veil is one ability that have hundreds of threads(Not literally) asking for a ban on it. Return dugtrio to 80 Atk only will make him go down to NU to be banned and return more hundred of times

Dugtrio is good in OU, pair it with Togekiss and you form a solid core. It lost punch when it comes to trapping Chansey and Blissey though.

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2 hours ago, LeJovi said:

No takers eh? Is it tiering policies or some dumb stuff like that? I actually want to know. 

Special Considerations and Rules

 

  1. If a Pokemon is voted on and banned from OU (moved to Ubers), the tier council, overseeing staff, and developers will discuss how to best "nerf" said Pokemon for reintroduction.  For example, Garchomp was banned from OU but reintroduced without Swords Dance, which was determined to be the reason it was broken. Similarly, Draco Meteor was removed from Hydreigon. If significant changes to the metagame have been implemented, these changes can be reversed through a suspect test if deemed appropriate by the tier council. Community members can suggest discussing these changes and a thread will be opened by a tier council member

Dugtrio simply have no ways to get back to OU, because even sand veil become useless for dugtrio or not, is an ability that have thousand of threads asking for their nerf. So, isn't a big deal leave dugtrio with him.

I almost forgot: Your Ubers mon had 3,38% Usage on OU, in moment that i've checked. Excelent idea asking a ban to Ubers for a mon that are OP on OU, however if dugtrio are too op and broken, answer me: Why he are below 4,36% cutoff to simply go Up to OU, and not in top of Usage Rankings of OU?

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47 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

Special Considerations and Rules

 

  1. If a Pokemon is voted on and banned from OU (moved to Ubers), the tier council, overseeing staff, and developers will discuss how to best "nerf" said Pokemon for reintroduction.  For example, Garchomp was banned from OU but reintroduced without Swords Dance, which was determined to be the reason it was broken. Similarly, Draco Meteor was removed from Hydreigon. If significant changes to the metagame have been implemented, these changes can be reversed through a suspect test if deemed appropriate by the tier council. Community members can suggest discussing these changes and a thread will be opened by a tier council member

Dugtrio simply have no ways to get back to OU, because even sand veil become useless for dugtrio or not, is an ability that have thousand of threads asking for their nerf. So, isn't a big deal leave dugtrio with him.

I almost forgot: Your Ubers mon had 3,38% Usage on OU, in moment that i've checked. Excelent idea asking a ban to Ubers for a mon that are OP on OU, however if dugtrio are too op and broken, answer me: Why he are below 4,36% cutoff to simply go Up to OU, and not in top of Usage Rankings of OU?

Please do not try and interpret policy, none of that has to do with if dugtrio is broken or not in UU, this is not a discussion about OU, and if it was, what would happen to dugtrio is a discussion between tier council and the mentioned members of staff, not you.

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