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PokeMMO World Cup 5th Edition - Kick Off Announcement


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3 minutes ago, MegaBladers said:

You realize this is the World Cup, right?

I was only responding to the ammount of views comment before as for the positive comments you can see it both in this topic, discord, our streams, wherever you want to look, except the spanish community channel and even there there are some positive comments.

Like you said this is the World Cup not Latin Cup.

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1 hour ago, WorldCupMMO said:

Solo estaba respondiendo al comentario de la cantidad de vistas antes en cuanto a los comentarios positivos, puedes verlo tanto en este tema, discordia, nuestras transmisiones, donde quieras mirar, excepto el canal de la comunidad en español e incluso hay algunos comentarios positivos.

Como dijiste, esto es la Copa del Mundo, no la Copa Latina.

I'm so glad you said it too, it's the WORLD CUP, so why are you taking into account your community of streamers when it's more than clear that to classify as WORLD is not even remotely close?

I am not messing with your community and much less with you, but with your way of doing things.

No matter how big your community is, THE WC IS NOT MADE JUST FOR YOUR COMMUNITY. and EVERYONE should always be allowed, as it is a "worldwide" event, to give their opinion about it and that is what the forum is for. because it is a platform that ALL of us can use and not a platform that is almost exclusive to your region.

And since you yourself just said that it is a World Cup, why do you only take into account the opinion of YOUR community? when the event IS NOT YOURS AT ALL. and it is more than clear that the community on the other side of the world is in agreement, so do not globalize the "everyone showed positive comments" BECAUSE IT IS MORE THAN CLEAR THAT NOT!

Indeed, it doesn't look like a World Cup, it looks like a JOKE!

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You guys go way too far lmao 

 

2 hours ago, WorldCupMMO said:

I've read all the topics from WC 1 to WC4, i've read all of the drama and problems that ocurred during those events and I have WC1 and WC4 hosts as my council, I spoke to them before I even started and one of my conditions to move forward as hosts was to have them supporting me I would never do anything without their support.

I just don't understand why you keep saying community is on your side or whatever yet every choices you've made have been taken by a chosen sample of players and yourself. If you truly read WC topics you should have seen that we usually vote on what we want to play and how, and then hosts do what they can to accommodate players. I don't share as much passion as the guy above me about all this but it doesn't look good when you answer genuine criticism about lack of unanimity with flexing random numbers that doesn't reflect anything on the pertinence and approval of the decisions you have made so far. 

 

So 

1) will you consider letting community vote different options they can discuss in forums about tiers and the number of em

2) if yes, can we make it so every country has same weight (captain vote or whatever) instead of being a shitshow with unavoidable drama at the end

3) if not, can you assume your decisions and confidently argue in favor for them instead of hiding behind a "support" from players that a) either exist mostly in words and b) are precisely players that didn't really gain community trust before ?

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13 hours ago, WorldCupMMO said:

Not 1 single decision is made in the stream. This specific stream is for clarifying questions and doubts of the community. To explain the decision making process behind the decisions made so far regarding these issues.

Quoting myself because I think people are giving way too much importance to the streaming part.

 

 

5 hours ago, Poufilou said:

I just don't understand why you keep saying community is on your side or whatever yet every choices you've made have been taken by a chosen sample of players and yourself.

Because we receive feedback and comments not just from 1 place. If we were to look at the pokemmo world cup spanish discussion channel then clearly our approval rate would be around 5% but still some people support our decisions there. But again...we receive it from multiple places and formats and from other places we are getting very good feedback.

 

 

5 hours ago, Poufilou said:

but it doesn't look good when you answer genuine criticism about lack of unanimity with flexing random numbers that doesn't reflect anything on the pertinence and approval of the decisions you have made so far. 

I didn't do that. I "flexed" numbers because they were saying that the streams were useless and no one watched them, which is not the case and later contested the numbers I was stating, again not knowing where we are getting our numbers from or even considering that there might be multiple sources.

As stated above...no decisions are made on stream.

 

 

5 hours ago, Poufilou said:

1) will you consider letting community vote different options they can discuss in forums about tiers and the number of em

As stated before, this matter will be discussed on stream and later posted here on the forums, this is one of the reasons why we had a 3 hour concil meeting 2 nights ago and why we decided to do this extra stream.

 

 

5 hours ago, Poufilou said:

2) if yes, can we make it so every country has same weight (captain vote or whatever)

Every country does have the same weight and we already have a captain's meeting set up for after the team composition fase. 

 

5 hours ago, Poufilou said:

3) if not, can you assume your decisions and confidently argue in favor for them instead of hiding behind a "support" from players that a) either exist mostly in words and b) are precisely players that didn't really gain community trust before ?

That is exactly what we are doing with this extra stream and why we are inviting community questions so that we can clarify any questions you may have regarding our decisions on these topics.

We know that stream is not the only way of communication, we know that discord is not the only way of communication, we know that forum is not the only way of communication. That is why we use them all.

There is not 1 single piece of information that is posted in just 1 place. There are no decisions made based solely on the feedback from 1 single source of information whether it is forums/stream/discord or a country/community member/group. And there are no relevant decisions made that aren't discussed and approved by the council.

 

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1 hour ago, WorldCupMMO said:

As stated before, this matter will be discussed on stream and later posted here on the forums, this is one of the reasons why we had a 3 hour concil meeting 2 nights ago and why we decided to do this extra stream.

How can you call a stream where you just broadcast what decisions have been made a "discussion" ? I still don't get it. This doesn't answer any of my questions, or rather, everything answers question 3) meaning that you don't have any intentions of allowing community to vote and if so you should just say it straight ahead instead of dodging everything. 

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I said this on discord but also will post here i think the amount of tiers played is hard decision to make. so i post my pov on the topic and why i think 6 tiers is the best solution for this tourament 

 

pros

-more countries can participate 

-not many rest of teams  since smaller countries can now also play

-less chance teams quitting since they have subs (look at argentina or poland in previous editions)  

-better qaulity games since only the best get a chance to play

 

cons 

- for bigger countries less players can participate

 

The first 2 pro's are important factor for a world cup. During world cup I see always people complain about rest of teams. as a spectator view it's boring people don't want to see rest of europe vs rest of asia. this is a tournament where you represent your country not continent. the argument about countries quitting is in my opinion also important  factor since i saw arguments like world cup is for everyone. but if a team needs to forfeit because the lack of players you will play less games and less chance to play. the better qaulity games is not a super good argument  but i can remember matches with a lvl 36 rapidash fresh caught. If you look at the con(s) you see that bigger countries (latam countries) will struggle since they can't play there entire country during the tournament. from my persective there are maybe like 10 big countries that really got problems with this so that means 20 people are being let out. What you guys oblivious don't like but on the other hand you can see teams like netherlands belgium canada england having a chance if you have 8 slots you let out maybe more then 20 people. 

 

Letting the people vote won't change much since all latam players ( the bigger teams with more players ) will always win the vote. no matter the amount of tiers getting picked people will complain towards the host.

Edited by Quinn010
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I don't see anything bad in capping the maximum amount of players to 8 or maybe 10. In every Worldwide competition only the best of the best are invited. I know it sucks for some countries like China that have a large pool of good players while in countries like Germany you just have to sign up to play (we are literally 6 right now lol) but that's what it is all over the world. 

There is no point in having 3 teams from the same country all representing it. 

Countries with a huge amount of player have to either decide who to bring or have an intern national competition to decide who to bring and I think thats the right approach to a Worldcup. 

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I swear this community cant have good things. They must be so used to literal garbage that they criticize any attempt at creating an actual organized, polished and better version of what we already had. 

 

So, for the love of God, let the man work. He has been doing an enormous piece of effort towards what seems to be a really well crafted season. Of course every change of this magnitude comes with unpolished, unoptimized, and maybe some unwanted features or decisions (Not for everyone at least). However, watch this event as a whole, instead of nitpicking every small detail that has no reason to since there is still plenty of time before this actually begin. 

 

For the first time in a World Cup, this season looks good. Don't ruin it for others or for yourselves because of your unbreakable inertia of changes.

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10 minutes ago, CaptnBaklava said:

I don't see anything bad in capping the maximum amount of players to 8 or maybe 10. In every Worldwide competition only the best of the best are invited. I know it sucks for some countries like China that have a large pool of good players while in countries like Germany you just have to sign up to play (we are literally 6 right now lol) but that's what it is all over the world. 

There is no point in having 3 teams from the same country all representing it. 

Countries with a huge amount of player have to either decide who to bring or have an intern national competition to decide who to bring and I think thats the right approach to a Worldcup. 

I agree with this, although one can make the argument that we aren't professionals dedicated to playing this event and having a minimum amount of subs ready is better (8 players cap seems low to me). 

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Updated original post:

-Added @Quinn010and @xJoseeeas English Commentators
-Added @MadaraSixSixand @gbweadas French Commentators

Updated donations post:

-Updated donations
-Added Donator Status Information

Extra stream resume:

This stream's goal was to explain the breakdown of our decision making process and explain our reasoning regarding the sign up policy/tier format. In the end we also addressed the issue regarding the lack of respect that took place in the discord in the previous days as well as open new donations.

Now regarding the main issues...

Sign Up Policy:

-The eligility parameters as mentioned in the https://forums.pokemmo.com/index.php?/topic/147860-pokemmo-world-cup-5th-edition-sign-ups/ are what everyone should use to see what countries they may or may not sign up for. However this can't really be verified or enforced by the World Cup hosts seeing as how we are hosting an Unofficial Tournament and have no authority whatsoever to ask for an ID, do an IP check of any sort or anything at all to be true.
Therefore the only real piece of reliable that that we have at our disposable is the World Cup Master file that was compiled will all of the previous years World Cup registrations plus this years. Going forward we will be passing forth the torch of the World Cup and this file as well to help guide the World Cup hosts and help them enforce the main rule as described in the VG 2022 rules.

Moving forward and starting this year if a player wishes to play in the World Cup he can only play for the country he played in the previous year. If he did not play in the previous year he is free to sign up to whatever country he sees fit according to the above criteria.
If a player played in the previous World Cup for a country and wishes to represent a different country he will have to skip the current World Cup and will only be able to represent a different country in the following year.

 


This may seem weird but we are trying to lay down the foundations for a more stable and easier to organize World Cup event going forward and who knows...with less drama (here is hoping...)


Tier Format:

6 Tiers: 

OU
UU
NU
DUBS

2x Captains Choice

Why 6? Less maximum tiers= more teams = more national teams= more national hype = more future competitive players = more world wide attention to the World Cup events 

But why 6 and not 4 for example? We want to make this interesting and have a minimum of strategy involved, we're using the 4 official formats plus 2 captains choice thus giving both the possibility of a 3-3 tier as well as more captain interaction and relevance.

Why not 8? Again, we're trying to make the ammount of country represented grow. This doesn't mean that in the future this number can't grow. We are going off of the information on previous years World Cup. If we get to a point where we see that we most all of the teams are capable of supporting a 8 tier format then yes we'll push forward with it but as we are it's not a good idea for the event to force it. If last year there were 6 tiers instead of 8 there would have been an Indonesia, Netherlands, Poland, Taiwan and Vietnam team. That is an additional 5 teams which would also allow other people to play more actively in the "rest of" teams.

This year we already have various national teams that so far hadn't been having a national/regional representation.

We consider this a win.

Little Cup

Again we are looking at the data we have available. 

Last year there were teams literally going into a match losing 1-0. Is this competitive? No. Is this interesting for either sides? No. Was this avoidable? Yes.
Remove LC as mandatory format. Reasoning? Not an official format, comparetively low playerbase (according to not only our data but PokeMMO offical data), hurting more then helping the event.

Do we want to get rid of LC? Absolutely not!! LC has a strong following in the PvP community, we can see that from the ammount of tournaments and love for the format. What can we do? We can and will have side events with LC, we have LC as a captain's choice for all countries that choose to have it as long as they are facing other LC compatible teams.

This was the best compromise that we could reach for the good of the event (which is our main focus) and accomodating the LC format.


So this is why we made the decisions that we did. How did we reach them?! 

Decision Making Process:

Before even pushing forward with my hosting of the World Cup I reached out to previous WC hosts such as OrangeManiac, Limbow, and other hosts such as Gbwead, RDL among others to ask for advice and opinion on the hosting process all the while introducing myself and explaining both my experience as a host outside of PokeMMO and my goals if I were to go forward as a host as well as what I might need in terms of support.

After solidifying some support I decided to move forward. All the while I was debating with the immediately established council on what problems to avoid, how better to handle things.

A common denominator was that the poll used to decided the format in the previous WC was a horrible thing in terms of event organization. After much debate we decided that going forward with a smaller format would be better for the event as a whole.

Why not make a poll?

Problems with polls is that they are biased, easily manipulated and will not necessarily reflect what is best for the event/community. In this forum there are fake accounts which can be used to manipulate polls. But let's take that aside. If the majority of the population decides something is that what is best for the overall of the population? If we entertain the notion that China + India together represent 34% of the World population would we agree that they should decide for the remainer of the population? Obviously not. But that is not a majority...7 is the ammount of countries required to represent over 50% of the World Population: China, India, USA, Indonesia, Pakistan, Nigeria, Brasil. These 7 countries alone represent 50.8% of the World Population.
Now what does all of this have to do with PokeMMO and the World Cup decision making, everything! Polls are just not the best way to make decisions. Not in a public forum. 

Someone suggested we do a Captain's vote to make decisions, fair enough...however before we can have Captain's vote on anything we need to have captains, and we're only going to have that after sign ups are complete and we need to announce quite a bit of information before people choose wether or not to sign up for a tournament and therefore based on previous years experienced and informed debate among a lot of community veteran hosts and myself we came up to the decisions made so far.

We will however have a captain's meeting after the completion of team formation to have every captain's input as well as debate the LC situation.

Are these the best decisions? I don't know, we hope so! Time will tell.

The hosts and the council as well as other community members are working hard to bring you the best World Cup event ever, I hope you all enjoy it either as a participant or a viewer.

This is a tournament by the community for the community!!! 




 

Edited by WorldCupMMO
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4 hours ago, iJulian said:

Isn’t it giga troll having like 5 community unofficial tournaments running at the same time???

I checked what was going on before I announced the kick off of the World Cup, there was only K9's limited Gym event and Quinn's event which will both supposedly be over before the start of the WC. So there was a clear opening and it is the "regular" time of the World Cup. This is an issue I'll be looking to address after I'm done hosting the WC. To look to avoid situations like this in the future. But in the end I don't think it's a big issue as of now.

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3 hours ago, DoctorPBC said:

sort of this... too many big multi-month commitment ones happening at once

Even VGC Season 0 that you announced the following day is supposed to end before the start of the WC so I think we should be fine. /fingers crossed 

PS: Cool event I wish I could participate, definetely interesting and if it goes well i'll want to participate next season 🙂

Edited by Unnefable
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35 minutes ago, Unnefable said:

I checked what was going on before I announced the kick off of the World Cup, there was only K9's limited Gym event and Quinn's event which will both supposedly be over before the start of the WC. So there was a clear opening and it is the "regular" time of the World Cup. This is an issue I'll be looking to address after I'm done hosting the WC. To look to avoid situations like this in the future. But in the end I don't think it's a big issue as of now.

That's a lie. I freed singups etc earlier because world cup being hosted at the same time. I talked with kaynine and we both agreed that its fine to have 2 events running at the same time. But from all other hosts i heard nothing i personally think its always nice to communicate with other hosts.

Edited by Quinn010
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4 minutes ago, Quinn010 said:

That's a lie

Easy... nothing I said was a lie...

 

 

5 minutes ago, Quinn010 said:

But from all other hosts i heard nothing i personally think its always nice to communicate with other hosts.

100% agree with you....when I looked at hosting the World Cup I didn't talk to you or K9, but the people I talked to with we talked about both your and K9's event. Your event launched at the end of May and I was told that both your and K9's event would be over around August and I still gave it another 2 weeks. It is also one of the reasons for the launch of the WC in September 11.

 

7 minutes ago, Quinn010 said:

I freed singups etc earlier because world cup being hosted at the same time.

If you did this I appreciate it and apologize if it was an incovenience in anyway, something to improve in future event coordination.

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5 minutes ago, Unnefable said:

Easy... nothing I said was a lie...

 

 

100% agree with you....when I looked at hosting the World Cup I didn't talk to you or K9, but the people I talked to with we talked about both your and K9's event. Your event launched at the end of May and I was told that both your and K9's event would be over around August and I still gave it another 2 weeks. It is also one of the reasons for the launch of the WC in September 11.

 

If you did this I appreciate it and apologize if it was an incovenience in anyway, something to improve in future event coordination.

56e4aa86bd2d9eee2cf7e900f3e8bcaa.png

as you can see it was supposed to start in august. So i don't know who have told you that but he is wrong. I  made my post earlier so my event dont overlap with others to much i wanted to host this event since begin january and needed to wait over a half year and now there 5 other events. Now i need to do all this hosting while im on vacation it's not a big problem im just dissapointed.

Edited by Quinn010
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