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[PGS 0] PokeMMO Grand Slam Trial Season


VGC: National Dex Open or Restricted?  

5 members have voted

  1. 1. VGC: National Dex Open or Restricted?

  2. 2. Due to many UU and NU tournaments fail to fill 64 spots, which thing we can do?

    • All tours being reduced to 32 players, halving the prizes. And only Top 8 earn points.
    • Leave tours with 64 spots and see the result.


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Welcome to PokéMMO Grand Slam Series. This is a Trial Season, if the event occurs everything ok we will do new seasons in the Future.

 

Note: The event will not happen for now due to World Cup, that are in progress. For now, this thread will be to discuss the format only.


 

What is this event?

Will be a Individual Tournament that will happen in 7 weeks, being divided on Two phases: Qualifiers and Finals.

Qualifiers:

The qualifiers will be held in tournaments involving one specific tier for each.

6 tiers will be placed for first edition: OU/UU/NU/Untiered/LC/VGC

Each tier will have 3 tours in order to qualify. Untiered, LC and VGC will be hosted here on Unnoficial Events section, but other tiers will be hosted in a automated way(using the forgotten but still usable Community-Hosted automated tournaments). All tours will have 64 spots limit.

The tours will follow this schedule:

Week 1: Friday: OU /Saturday: UU /Sunday: LC

Week 2: Friday: NU /Saturday: Untiered /Sunday: VGC

Week 3: Friday: OU /Saturday: NU /Sunday: VGC

Week 4: Friday: UU /Saturday: Untiered /Sunday: LC

Week 5: Friday: OU /Saturday: Untiered /Sunday: LC

Week 6: Friday: UU /Saturday: NU /Sunday: VGC

Each tour will confer points to players according to their position on tour:

Champion: 10 pts

Runner-Up: 7 pts

Semifinal: 5 pts

Quarterfinal: 3 pts

Round 3: 1 pt

Eliminated on Round 1 or 2: no points given.

Note: If player gets free r3 or quarterfinal on a tour due to smaller bracket, if lose on this round will count as a R1 loss.

At the end, 16 players with highest score will qualify to final tournament, with next 16 players on standings having a reserve spot, that will happen on Week 7 Sunday.

Also, players can play on more than once qualifying tournament.


Finals:

On final tours, players will face themselves on a BO3, and the tiers will be the follow:

One tier selected by each player before starts the finals + VGC as a Tie-Break, if needed.
 

Untiered, VGC and LC data:

On Untiered, VGC and LC matches, a paste of your team, or a screenshot of team preview, need to be sended on discord(to be created). Because they don't are automated tiers, this are necessary to give a small but better than nothing usage of tier.
 

Discord: Coming soon.

Start day: not defined, probablly on December.
Click here to check spreasheet with VGC Usage Data

Edit: Following a suggestion by some players on Discord, the tier Doubles will be removed from tier rotation. However, VGC will keep on Tier Rotation. The tier will be replaced by Untiered and will be hosted in a non official way. Also, due to popular vote, the finals matches will need to be scheduled, like happened on [PGC] Indigo Plateau Finale. 

Also, i will leave clear how prize will work for each qualifier, remembering that this is subject to changes:
All tours will have 100k fee, and 64 spots, meaning 6,4m of prize pool. Distribution:

1st: 2,4m - 37,5% of prize pool for each(If not fill 64 spots.)
2nd: 1,2m - 18,75% of prize pool for each(If not fill 64 spots.)
3rd-4th: 600/k each - 9,375% of prize pool for each(If not fill 64 spots.)
5th-8th: 200/k each - 3,125% of prize pool for each(If not fill 64 spots.)
9th-16th: 100/k each - 1,5625% of prize pool(If not fill 64 spots.)

Why i leave the exactly % of prize pool? Some tours can fail in fullfill the 64 spots avaiable. The money sayed before the % is assuming that 64 players enter. If they fail, the distribution will be done with this percentual on the money get by the entry fees. 

A warning: If a tier fail to register at least 32 players, prizes for the 5th-16th will not be given. 

 

 

Edit II: List of Tournaments and their respective links, updating each time that a new tour is announced.

Quote

[OU] Grand Slam S0 Warn-Up #1 - 2nd October 2022 , 20:00 UTC 0

[UU] Grand Slam S0 Warn-Up #2 - Soon

[NU] Grand Slam S0 Warn-Up #3 - Soon

[OU] PGS S0 - OU Qualifiers #1 - Soon

[UU] PGS S0 - UU Qualifiers #1 - Soon

[LC] PGS S0 - LC Qualifiers #1 - Soon

[NU] PGS S0 - NU Qualifiers #1 - Soon

[UT] PGS S0 - UT Qualifiers #1 - Soon

[VGC] PGS S0 - VGC Qualifiers #1 - Soon

[OU] PGS S0 - OU Qualifiers #2 - Soon

[NU] PGS S0 - NU Qualifiers #2 - Soon

[VGC] PGS S0 - VGC Qualifiers #2 - Soon

[UU] PGS S0 - UU Qualifiers #2 - Soon

[UT] PGS S0 - UT Qualifiers #2 - Soon

[LC] PGS S0 - LC Qualifiers #2 - Soon

[OU] PGS S0 - OU Qualifiers #3 - Soon

[UT] PGS S0 - UT Qualifiers #3 - Soon

[LC] PGS S0 - LC Qualifiers #3 - Soon

[UU] PGS S0 - UU Qualifiers #3 - Soon

[NU] PGS S0 - NU Qualifiers #3 - Soon

[VGC] PGS S0 - VGC Qualifiers #3 - Soon

[PGS 0] PokéMMO Grand Slam - Finals - Soon

 

Edited by caioxlive13
Update 28/09/2022.
Link to comment
Just now, Quinn010 said:

If you host a grand slam imo its either doubles or singles mixing both is a bad concept 

 The idea is give a incentive to players play different tiers. Usually only team tours offer this variety of tiers, however it's very hard to be selected to one.

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5 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

 The idea is give a incentive to players play different tiers. Usually only team tours offer this variety of tiers, however it's very hard to be selected to one.

Your mindset is wrong we currently have world cup thats open for everyone. Imo hosting slam is really cool but i would be sad if you just waste the potential of this concept

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1 hour ago, Quinn010 said:

Your mindset is wrong we currently have world cup thats open for everyone. Imo hosting slam is really cool but i would be sad if you just waste the potential of this concept

Before world cup are acessible to everyone. But currently with the 18-player cap , some players can be excluded from the teams. And, world cup is a team tournament, that add two factors:

  • You have 18 players but line-ups is only 6 players per week. A part of team will not play on some weeks. Some teams have less players and they play more times. 
  • In order to World Cup happen, they depend of other team tour don't happen on the same period. If happen, can potentially decrease the prize pool of tour. If a individual tour happen, they can also decrease the prize pool of World Cup but the impact is much smaller.

 

Also, i choosed the tiers that have some playerbase and players showed that want tours of those formats. Like VGC, that recently players have maked a Tour 100% focused on him, and we have PCL with the format included on weekly tier rotation. So, i included VGC, especially after some players say to me that prefer VGC over doubles.

Edited by caioxlive13
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2 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

Before world cup are acessible to everyone. But currently with the 18-player cap , some players can be excluded from the teams. And, world cup is a team tournament, that add two factors:

  • You have 18 players but line-ups is only 6 players per week. A part of team will not play on some weeks. Some teams have less players and they play more times. 
  • In order to World Cup happen, they depend of other team tour don't happen on the same period. If happen, can potentially decrease the prize pool of tour. If a individual tour happen, they can also decrease the prize pool of World Cup but the impact is much smaller.

 

Also, i choosed the tiers that have some playerbase and players showed that want tours of those formats. Like VGC, that recently players have maked a Tour 100% focused on him, and we have PCL with the format included on weekly tier rotation. So, i included VGC, especially after some players say to me that prefer VGC over doubles.

 what i mean is that smogon grandslam (the concept you copy) focus is that you show your the best multitier singles player. If you change this concept you kinda kill the event already. If you want to see more doubles tournament host dpl and add duu and vgc to it.

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14 minutes ago, Quinn010 said:

 what i mean is that smogon grandslam (the concept you copy) focus is that you show your the best multitier singles player. If you change this concept you kinda kill the event already. If you want to see more doubles tournament host dpl and add duu and vgc to it.

The problem is lack of singles formats, mainly because we don't have RU or PU, and i don't considered UT because on dex UT involves all mons that aren't Ubers/OU/UU/NU , without spliting the good ones(Like Altaria, Skuntank) from the bad ones(Rattata, Bastiodon...), leaving a bit harder to Teambuild for "new players"(Novice players or players that play a lot on official tiers but don't play UT) . 1v1 because of Matches Speed and because we need to evaluate the banlist(Like, seriously, for what reason on PCL, the 1v1 council decide to allow Whimsicott?). Also, the intent is adapt the tour. Not only restricting to Singles, but allowing doubles too. If new formats become added then we can consider spliting the doubles formats from singles formats, but this will only be possible with UT usage(So we can create a non official RU and PU)

Edited by caioxlive13
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2 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

The problem is lack of singles formats, mainly because we don't have RU or PU, and i don't considered UT because on dex UT involves all mons that aren't Ubers/OU/UU/NU , without spliting the good ones(Like Altaria, Skuntank) from the bad ones(Rattata, Bastiodon...), leaving a bit harder to Teambuild for "new players"(Novice players or players that play a lot on official tiers but don't play UT) . 1v1 because of Matches Speed and because we need to evaluate the banlist(Like, seriously, for what reason on PCL, the 1v1 council decide to allow Whimsicott?). Also, the intent is adapt the tour. Not only restricting to Singles, but allowing doubles too. If new formats become added then we can consider spliting the doubles formats from singles formats, but this will only be possible with UT usage(So we can create a non official RU and PU)

How is building for Untiered harder than building for Doubles/VGC? (from the point of view of a singles player, asking seriously)

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On 9/23/2022 at 1:34 PM, Bertolfoso said:

How is building for Untiered harder than building for Doubles/VGC? (from the point of view of a singles player, asking seriously)

Is mainly because of Untiered doesn't have a usage data, to you have a idea of what is common in the tier and what aren't. Usage is basically a mirror of viability, because good mons tend to be used more. Isn't a perfect mirror but is the more closest that we have for Unnofical formats. Doubles have the official usage data, and on VGC season 0 i've posted a spreadsheet with entire VGC usage, from VGC 0 and PCL 1.

 

A simply resume: On untiered you don't have a reference point because there's no data. On VGC we have thanks to my file.

Edited by caioxlive13
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3 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

The problem is lack of singles formats, mainly because we don't have RU or PU, and i don't considered UT because on dex UT involves all mons that aren't Ubers/OU/UU/NU , without spliting the good ones(Like Altaria, Skuntank) from the bad ones(Rattata, Bastiodon...), leaving a bit harder to Teambuild for "new players"(Novice players or players that play a lot on official tiers but don't play UT) . 1v1 because of Matches Speed and because we need to evaluate the banlist(Like, seriously, for what reason on PCL, the 1v1 council decide to allow Whimsicott?). Also, the intent is adapt the tour. Not only restricting to Singles, but allowing doubles too. If new formats become added then we can consider spliting the doubles formats from singles formats, but this will only be possible with UT usage(So we can create a non official RU and PU)

lack of singles format we have 3 ? thats enough for a slam. 

 

3 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

Is mainly because of Untiered doesn't have a usage data, to you have a idea of what is common in the tier and what aren't. Usage is basically a mirror of viability, because good mons tend to be used more. Isn't a perfect mirror but is the more closest that we have for Unnofical formats. Doubles have the official usage data, and on VGC season 0 i've posted a spreadsheet with entire VGC usage, from VGC 0 and PCL 1.

thats a weak argument  i can easily gather usage from untiered if its needed

 

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7 minutes ago, Quinn010 said:

thats a weak argument  i can easily gather usage from untiered if its needed

Please do it. Players that don't play UT too much will apreciate it. We can even use the usage to form a RU and a PU specifically for this tour.

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3 hours ago, AndreRugila said:

isso é Wc só muda as letras

Há umas diferenças. Primeiro é a inclusão de VGC e a possível inclusão de Untiered, formatos que não tem na World Cup. Segundo, e mais importante: World Cup é uma Team Tour. Essa tour é Individual.

 

We have some differences. First is the inclusion of VGC and the possible inclusion of Untiered, formats that aren't present on World Cup. Second and most important: World Cup is a Team Tournament. This tournament is Individual.

Edited by caioxlive13
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Updated somethings :
- Added a link for VGC usage data. Now VGC players can have a reference of what is common in VGC and what isn't when preparing their teams.
- Updated Tier Rotation, removing Doubles and replacing with Untiered. Some players commented to me that aren't a good idea leave two doubles formats, so i removed one of those.
- Explained the prize pool distributions.
- Added a Pool to vote the VGC format, if will be Open(No restrictions) or Restricted(Restricting the 16 most used, according to VGC usage data, to only 2 per team.)

Edited by caioxlive13
Link to comment
On 9/23/2022 at 1:16 PM, Quinn010 said:

 what i mean is that smogon grandslam (the concept you copy) focus is that you show your the best multitier singles player. If you change this concept you kinda kill the event already. If you want to see more doubles tournament host dpl and add duu and vgc to it.

Ok. I will leave VGC as the Only Doubles tier(and for we have 6 tiers and can schedule the tours in a simple but understandable calendar, without needing of repeat any tier in the 2 First, 2 Middle or the 2 Last qualifiers weeks.) because players voted and allow doubles formats, and leave 5 Singles tiers.

Edited by caioxlive13
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On 9/23/2022 at 1:34 PM, Bertolfoso said:

How is building for Untiered harder than building for Doubles/VGC? (from the point of view of a singles player, asking seriously)

I'll give you a best answer than i sended before, because i think that last answer being a little confused. UT doesn't have any usage data or Viability Rankings to you have a reference of which things are common in format(and as a consequence, for which things you need to prepare your team to fight) and which things aren't, leaving a bit harder but not impossible, to players that don't play UT frequently, teambuild. Doubles have the official data and VGC i have a file that i'm leaving avaliable for everyone, with usage data, so even if you don't know too much about the format, usage grants to you a reference to teambuild.

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After some talk with @Quinn010 and get some suggestions, we reached on a final format that we considered good, and we want to see with players if are good or not. 

First of all: We will play with 5 tiers, and not 6. That means VGC is officially out from tournament.
The tiers will be : Over Used/Under Used/Never Used/Untiered/Little Cup. I'm still talking with QuinnW to get Untiered Usage, to help players that don't play UT frequently , giving a reference to teambuild.
Weekly tier rotation will also have some changes. Now will be:
Week 1: Friday: OU/Saturday: UU/Sunday: NU
Week 2: Friday: LC/Saturday: UT/Sunday: OU
Week 3: Friday: UU/Saturday: NU/Sunday: LC
Week 4: Friday: UT/Saturday: OU/Sunday: UU
Week 5: Friday: NU/Saturday: LC/Sunday: UT

All tours will be held considering the following timezones, at 4 PM(6 PM on fridays):
PT(Pacific Time, -7) for: OU #1, UU #3, NU#2, LC#1 and UT#3
CST(China Standard Time, +8) for: OU#2, UU#1, NU#3, LC#3 and UT#2
GMT(Greenwich Meridional Time, 0) for: OU#3, UU#2, NU#1, LC#2, and UT#1


Now for finals: 
All matches will be on Scheduling system, this will keep. The tiers that will be played will change. On 1st round, Quarterfinals, and Semifinals, will be BO3 with 1 Tier choosed by each player + OU(If a 3rd game is needed). On finals, will be a BO5, being on LC/UT/NU/UU/OU.  

Prize: TBA

I will update main post asap.

 

Edited by caioxlive13
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