[WC 6] PokeMMO World Cup 6th Edition - General Thread (July 23rd, 2023 to October 29th, 2023)

[gbwead]

12 minutes ago, LadyR0sy said:

Because the point of this post is to secure the spot before the current event ends and not give anyone else the opportunity, nothing more

I already said anyone is free to host WC 6 and I will gladly ask staff to close this thread. The point of this post is feedback, nothing more.

 

25 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

I give some ideas about rules but seems that Gbwead ignored...

I'm not ignoring your post. I just wait to see what others say regarding your thoughts to see if people share your opinion.

 

[Lunarck]

1 hour ago, LadyR0sy said:

First point - Am I the only one who finds this post ridiculous?
The current world cup is still starting the playoffs... 6 weeks or less to finish, is it too long to wait????

It's not ridiculous we will have a good host for WC 6

[LadyR0sy]

10 minutes ago, Lunarck said:

It's not ridiculous we will have a good host for WC 6

You need to check closely what happen to all games or events that start to be pay to participate/win 😂
 

[Unnefable]

3 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

Delay on announcement of CC tiers choosed

absolutely no delay! i've only recently started announcing cc tiers on stream and i do that after the captains already know it

[caioxlive13]

33 minutes ago, Unnefable said:

absolutely no delay! i've only recently started announcing cc tiers on stream and i do that after the captains already know it

Captains will know but players that are watching if didn't pick stream will only know a few hours or days later, depend of day that stream is made, when weekly thread is posted.

[Makarovs]

18 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

Captains will know but players that are watching if didn't pick stream will only know a few hours or days later, depend of day that stream is made, when weekly thread is posted.

I don't understand your point here. If captains know, he can (and should) tell his team any info given. Anyone outside of the two teams doesn't need to know about the tier choice before the thread is posted.

[Poufilou]

Good initiative. Here's some feedback : 

 

10 hours ago, gbwead said:

Captain Nomination | August 6th, 2023 to August 13th, 2023

Campaign & Funding | August 6th, 2023 to August 19th, 2023

Overall I like the captain and campaign funding system, I think it's high time that regular players think of donating to big events instead of relying on the same persons every time, and what you put in place incentivize it with some important factors. I would however give more time for captains to get donations, for two reasons : 

 

1) In the event where smaller country teams lack players. By the time a team gets organized a bit and a captain decides to sign up a bit late in the week, that leaves only one more to secure a place, and we know that some team formations have been found only later in the scale of one month during this year player registration. Sure, getting 3 donators within that time isn't an issue, but securing the place with only these 3 may be one. 

2) More hype. If you want more donations, making the campaign lasts longer will incentivize players to pay attention of their team donation total and make sure they will be in by donating more. 

 

Another thing : you can argue that it's not fair that bigger countries will have to spend less per players and they'd struggle less to be accepted. I don't really have a way of dealing with this in a fair way without hurting the donation total amount (capping donators per team seems not a good idea), but maybe you could come up with a formula where smaller teams that donate proportionnally a lot compared to their amount of players gets some bonus during selection process. 

 

10 hours ago, gbwead said:

If two captains represent the same part of the world, only one can be selected (the one that collected the most funds). 

I get the idea of funding and stuff, but I would not encourage this. Imagine a scenario where 1 rich player decides to claim a random country, he only needs 2 partners in crime (that dont even have to be from that country to basically block this country from participating in an easy way (if they have bad intentions). You don't even need a lot of money for that, even like 20M can sometimes be enough. This is just an example, but there are loopholes in this, and donations should never reflect the level of investment alone, and as a host you should encourage integrity and trust within a team between players and their captains. 

 

10 hours ago, gbwead said:

Previous World Cup winners will be favored in the selection process with a x1.5 booster to their donations. For instance, if Team USA East Coast has collected 14M and Team China has collected 10M, Team China will be selected over Team USA East Coast because Team China is a previous WC winner (10M x 1.5 = 15M).

However this is cool imo.

 

Is the staff confirming location will really be a thing or is it just a formality ? Also, it is said nowhere or maybe I missed it, but for this : 

10 hours ago, gbwead said:

Players do not have be Italian in order to be in the Italian Team, they just need to be accepted by the Italian captain.

Is it still the case if that player played for another country last year ? Are you keeping that rule ? If not, it's basically just having captains being verified ? Just because of that rule, I would encourage EVEN LESS the "better dono wins" in the event of 2 captains for same team. Because otherwise you can just make your super team of your friends and you claiming a country and it just ruins the purpose. I would suggest this : in the event 2 captains chose same country, the captain with the most players donators that already played for that same country in previous WC wins.

 

I have nothing to say for the group stages and the tier list, except that I'm glad for LC to return and have its rightful place in this event. 

 

 

[Poufilou]

Ah, another thing : please let community vote for hosts this time 😄

[gbwead]

@Poufilou I agree with the first part of your post.

 

49 minutes ago, Poufilou said:

 

 

11 hours ago, gbwead said:

If two captains represent the same part of the world, only one can be selected (the one that collected the most funds). 

I get the idea of funding and stuff, but I would not encourage this. Imagine a scenario where 1 rich player decides to claim a random country, he only needs 2 partners in crime (that dont even have to be from that country to basically block this country from participating in an easy way (if they have bad intentions). You don't even need a lot of money for that, even like 20M can sometimes be enough. This is just an example, but there are loopholes in this, and donations should never reflect the level of investment alone, and as a host you should encourage integrity and trust within a team between players and their captains. 

In order for someone to claim a country, that person needs to get verified which mean I will need some kind of confirmation that they indeed come from where they claim. After getting verified, that person needs to get 3 players - having played for that country in the past - to donate for his/her team. 

This means that this person would not only seek to screw over his own country, but he would also need 3 players from that country to support him/her in doing so while competing against another captain from that country. 

 

If someone is really determined to screw his own country over, this could indeed be a problem. Maybe I am naive, but I don't think someone would do that.

I realise that this is indeed a loophole though and will try to make the structure more rigid to prevent abuse as much as possible.

 

49 minutes ago, Poufilou said:

11 hours ago, gbwead said:

Players do not have be Italian in order to be in the Italian Team, they just need to be accepted by the Italian captain.

Is it still the case if that player played for another country last year ? Are you keeping that rule ? If not, it's basically just having captains being verified ? Just because of that rule, I would encourage EVEN LESS the "better dono wins" in the event of 2 captains for same team. Because otherwise you can just make your super team of your friends and you claiming a country and it just ruins the purpose. I would suggest this : in the event 2 captains chose same country, the captain with the most players donators that already played for that same country in previous WC wins.

 

I have nothing to say for the group stages and the tier list, except that I'm glad for LC to return and have its rightful place in this event. 

The rule that players can only play for the country they represented the previous year would no longer apply. However, at least 3 donators must have played for that team in the past world cups in order for the team to be accepted.

 

So basically, there are 3 categories of participants:

1. Captains: they come from the region of the world they seek to represent and choose who will play for that team
2. Donators: they have played for the region of the world they seek to represent and are automatically accepted into the team they donated for
3. Regular players: they do not need to come from or have played for the region of the world they seek to represent, they just need to be accepted by the captain

I'll take myself as an example. I have played for team France in World Cup 2. I have played for team Canada in World Cup 3. If I donate for team Canada or team France in World Cup Six, I will be automatically accepted in that team if the captain accepts my donation. However, if I sign up for team Brazil in World Cup Six, I will not be accepted in that team unless the captain allows me to join.

For the captains, they are a central part of the event and will be required to communicate with the host & staff as well as other captains on a regular basis, by going through the verification process, I will ensure that they are actually representing a region of the world they come from, but also it will help me assess if they have the ability and motivation to put the necessary effort to manage their team. I don't want people to worry, I'm not going to ask anyone to provide me copies of their passport or anything like that. A simple conversation where I ask questions will suffice in the event staff is unable to help me with verification.


Thanks for the feedback. You have giving me a lot to think about and I will make adjustments.

Edited October 18, 2022 by gbwead

[Poufilou]

20 minutes ago, gbwead said:

In order for someone to claim a country, that person needs to get verified which mean I will need some kind of confirmation that they indeed come from where they claim. After getting verified, that person needs to get 3 players - having played for that country in the past - to donate for his/her team. 

This means that this person would not only seek to screw over his own country, but he would also need 3 players from that country to support him/her in doing so while competing against another captain from that country. 

 

If someone is really determined to screw his own country over, this could indeed be a problem. Maybe I am naive, but I don't think someone would do that.

I realise that this is indeed a loophole though and will try to make the structure more rigid to prevent abuse as much as possible.

I actually derped along the way and forgot at least 3 donators MUST come from previous year country (does it include captain btw ?). But tbh, the point still stands, I went to the furthest case of ill intent, but there are some countries with drama and stuff where the "dono" factor to separate the 2 clans is pretty stupid imo (that's more likely to happen). 

 

23 minutes ago, gbwead said:

I'll take myself as an example. I have played for team France in World Cup 2. I have played for team Canada in World Cup 3. If I donate for team Canada or team France in World Cup Six, I will be automatically accepted in that team if the captain accepts my donation. However, if I sign up for team Brazil in World Cup Six, I will not be accepted in that team unless the captain allows me to join.

Tbh this just reinforces my idea that you need longer funding time. Once the first week is over, it will be a race to donations (depending on number of teams), and this would be more exciting with more time. Also, how do you intend to "close" the funding time ? What prevents captains to have donators on hold on the last hour and secure a place by signing them up ? The fact we share different time zone might make this an issue. 

 

To encourage players to be honest about their countries while still having that system of choosing, why don't you make a rule where players that are signing up (or asking to) to a different country than one they already played with before have a donation requirement ? (since they will never be part of the mandatory donators, unless they are players from a country that didn't make it, and in that case they fill the requirement by having donated). That way, players who "try" to make their country qualified by donating are on same level of those who don't and are just waiting to join a country where their friends are. 

[Thenavarro]

3 hours ago, Poufilou said:

Ah, otra cosa: deja que la comunidad vote por los anfitriones esta vez. 😄

This!!!! 

[Thenavarro]

Thread of psl when? 👀

[Huargensy]

I guess it's a good idea to plan it so as not to have last-minute problems, directly give an opinion on the final selection of countries, I think the best thing would be to make some playoffs among those who donated the least, if we base ourselves on choosing that everyone should donate the teams necessarily, imagining that there are 20, the 12 that donate the most would be direct income, but the last 8 would be better if they played a playoff phase, so a better competitive level will be obtained while we avoid leaving some countries out for having less money than another, in the same way, it is most likely that from position number 13 the difference in money I do not think is so great, it could even be reduced from the first 12 to 14 and make a playoffs of the last 6 countries for the last 2 slots.

 

By the way, I like that you take the initiative to organize WC this coming year, I guess we noticed the commitment, I'm not sure if I will play this event, but at least knowing that things will be resolved with discussion, among the community by the rules, the levels and how this WC will take place looks good. I also don't think it's specifically necessary for a previous host to have to pass the "Title" on to the next WC host, that just implies that if a previous host made poor decisions during the event, they will also do so when choosing the next successor (I'm not talking of this WC, I'm not even looking at it or reviewing it, so I can't comment on it, nor on previous editions, it's just an example in case it happens), so probably to some extent the community can choose a host if it's new or someone with previous experience ends up being a better option.

[Mkns1070]

7 hours ago, Poufilou said:

Ah, another thing : please let community vote for hosts this time 😄

I vote gbwead as host for next wc

[kiwi]

16 hours ago, LadyR0sy said:

 

Third point - I just read some potential rules that are ridiculous.
Pay to participate event???
Prize pool for media partners???
 

 

So you are saying that the guys who make possible for the others to watch games should lose their time for free? Yeah good idea if you want to have less than 5% of games recorded. Also a fee to participate increases prize pool, whats wrong with it?

Edited October 18, 2022 by kiwi

[gbwead]

9 hours ago, Poufilou said:

I actually derped along the way and forgot at least 3 donators MUST come from previous year country (does it include captain btw ?). But tbh, the point still stands, I went to the furthest case of ill intent, but there are some countries with drama and stuff where the "dono" factor to separate the 2 clans is pretty stupid imo (that's more likely to happen). 

It doesn't include Captain, so Captain + 3 players. You are correct someone will ill intent can still screw people over. I don't have a solution yet for that, but I'll try to work on it. 

 

Having spectated several WC seasons, something always bothered me with the sign up process. Players sign up for the country they want to play for and then they automatically get on a team with players that want to fight for the same country. There is nothing wrong with that on paper, but I feel that creates issues for countries that have players that don't get along.

 

If they can put their difference aside that is great. If they can't, it creates a lot of issues. I'm saying this because I'm concerned with forcing players to play for a captain or with other players they don't like. Since I want regions to be selected through donations in WC 6, captains & players have a big incentive to work together to secure a spot. If players from a country do not want to be under the leadership banner of someone they dislike, they have the ability to create their own team and compete against that person they deem unfit.

 

Basically, I really want to give players more control when it comes to teams creation in WC and I don't want anyone ending up playing for a captain they don't want. If a country is divided prior to the season start, they really need to get their shit together before the season start. If working together is a deal breaker, they should imo not play together.

I know it's far from ideal, but I think overall it could do great in the long run. 

 

9 hours ago, Poufilou said:

Tbh this just reinforces my idea that you need longer funding time. Once the first week is over, it will be a race to donations (depending on number of teams), and this would be more exciting with more time. Also, how do you intend to "close" the funding time ? What prevents captains to have donators on hold on the last hour and secure a place by signing them up ? The fact we share different time zone might make this an issue. 

The funding time definetly need to increase. I agree. I just read Huargensy proposal and extra time will be needed for that to happen as well.

 

Also, regarding the donation race, I was planning to hide the donations from each region in order to prevent last minute donations seeking to "steal" a spot.

 

6 hours ago, Huargensy said:

I guess it's a good idea to plan it so as not to have last-minute problems, directly give an opinion on the final selection of countries, I think the best thing would be to make some playoffs among those who donated the least, if we base ourselves on choosing that everyone should donate the teams necessarily, imagining that there are 20, the 12 that donate the most would be direct income, but the last 8 would be better if they played a playoff phase, so a better competitive level will be obtained while we avoid leaving some countries out for having less money than another, in the same way, it is most likely that from position number 13 the difference in money I do not think is so great, it could even be reduced from the first 12 to 14 and make a playoffs of the last 6 countries for the last 2 slots.

Let's say 22 teams sign up but there are only 16 spots available.

Right now:

• The 16 spots would go to the top donators.

 

What you are suggesting (correct me if I am wrong):

• 14 of the 16 spots go to the top donators
• The remaining 8 teams play a Team Tournament style event and the finalists get the 2 remaining spots

I think you have a good idea. The only thing I would add is clause to ensure the TT tournament must have 4 participants or 8 participants (no byes). This would mean that if 21 teams sign ups, this is what I think should happen:

• 14 of the 16 spots go to the top donators
• The top 4 donators of the 7 remaining teams play a Team Tournmanet style event and the finalists get the remaining spots.

Since there would be no difference between being first vs second for that tournament, I was thinking perhaps it would be best to have 2 seperate brackets based on Time Zones. Let's say there are 8 remaining teams. 4 of them are countries from the West and 4 of them are countries from the East. The countries from the West compete among themselves at a time fit for all of them. Same goes for the countries from the East. Basically, like we have for end of the season ladder tournaments, East and West at two different times.

 

 

 

 

 

[Poufilou]

Hmm I guess you convinced me for the captain thing. 

 

53 minutes ago, gbwead said:

Also, regarding the donation race, I was planning to hide the donations from each region in order to prevent last minute donations seeking to "steal" a spot.

Does that mean hiding donation amount ? Will we still have the order of teams updated in real time ? More exciting imo.

 

I like Huargensy idea. 

 

Also what do you think about this

 

10 hours ago, Poufilou said:

To encourage players to be honest about their countries while still having that system of choosing, why don't you make a rule where players that are signing up (or asking to) to a different country than one they already played with before have a donation requirement ? (since they will never be part of the mandatory donators, unless they are players from a country that didn't make it, and in that case they fill the requirement by having donated). That way, players who "try" to make their country qualified by donating are on same level of those who don't and are just waiting to join a country where their friends are. 

 

[NagaX]

59 minutes ago, gbwead said:

Players sign up for the country they want to play for and then they automatically get on a team with players that want to fight for the same country. There is nothing wrong with that on paper, but I feel that creates issues for countries that have players that don't get along.

 

If they can put their difference aside that is great. If they can't, it creates a lot of issues.

Shame Argentina.

[caioxlive13]

and about the Pickup teams? They simply will no longer exists? This will turn the tournament that should be open in a tour that you need to be selected, and nothing guarrants that captain will not choose only who he wants.

At least a pickup team is needed in cases like this. For example, both I and ZuraTheInsane were discarded from Brasil but this year we get a Invite to Latam, both of us accepted and we're playing on Latam. Both of us receive a opportunity and we aren't wasting him, we lead the group D, the 2nd hardest group(Two World Champions and Mexico, that always is a team that is harder to defeat) This opportunity will simply vanish, if we depend of a captain accept us on a team and aren't pickup teams avaliable if someone become discarted.

Edited October 18, 2022 by caioxlive13

[gbwead]

1 hour ago, Poufilou said:

To encourage players to be honest about their countries while still having that system of choosing, why don't you make a rule where players that are signing up (or asking to) to a different country than one they already played with before have a donation requirement ? (since they will never be part of the mandatory donators, unless they are players from a country that didn't make it, and in that case they fill the requirement by having donated). That way, players who "try" to make their country qualified by donating are on same level of those who don't and are just waiting to join a country where their friends are. 

That's an interesting idea. I need to give it more thoughts because right now donating to teams matters for the team selection and that is before player registration.

 

Let's say a player wants to play for his own country and donates to that country. Sadly, his/her team doesn't get selected (not enough donations, not enough donators from his/her country, etc.). That player still wants to play WC and will have to ask to join the team of other countries. The problem here is that team funding is already done at that point, so I need to maybe change the order in which things are done. I'm also wondering if a donation floor or ceiling could be considered.

[gbwead]

1 hour ago, caioxlive13 said:

and about the Pickup teams? They simply will no longer exists? This will turn the tournament that should be open in a tour that you need to be selected, and nothing guarrants that captain will not choose only who he wants.

At least a pickup team is needed in cases like this. For example, both I and ZuraTheInsane were discarded from Brasil but this year we get a Invite to Latam, both of us accepted and we're playing on Latam. Both of us receive a opportunity and we aren't wasting him, we lead the group D, the 2nd hardest group(Two World Champions and Mexico, that always is a team that is harder to defeat) This opportunity will simply vanish, if we depend of a captain accept us on a team and aren't pickup teams avaliable if someone become discarted.

Every team that gets selected becomes a pick up team. Any player can register to join a team as long as the captain of that team accepts them.

 

Important note:

I'm allowing any kind of region to sign up for this World Cup exactly for that reason. If you come from a country that doesn't have enough players to form a complete team, you may form an "alliance" with neighbouring countries in order to have enough numbers (both in donations and players) in order to form a complete roster. In that sense, "Rest of ..." teams would no longer exist as a leftovers team, but as a cohesive group put together by the players themselves.

This will also allow countries with enormous amount of players to split the country into different regions. Instead of China A and China B, we could have China South and China North. Instead of USA A and USA B, USA East Coast and USA West Coast...

Edited October 18, 2022 by gbwead

[caioxlive13]

4 minutes ago, gbwead said:

Every team that gets selected becomes a pick up team. Any player can register to join a team as long as the captain of that team accepts them.

 

Important note: I'm allowing any kind of region to sign up for this World Cup exactly for that reason. If you come from a country that doesn't have enough players to form a complete team, you may form an "alliance" with neighbouring countries in order to have enough numbers (both in donations and players) in order to form a complete roster. In that sens, "Rest of ..." teams would no longer exist as a leftovers team, but as a cohesive group put together by the players themselves.

But if for some reason i decide to build a secondariy Brasil team. I should be allowed if i register him as a Brasil North/South?

[gbwead]

4 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

But if for some reason i decide to build a secondariy Brasil team. I should be allowed if i register him as a Brasil North/South?

Yes, you may register Brazil North as a seperate team from Brazil South. Both can get selected.

 

However, if there is a team for Brazil North and another team for Brazil, only one will be selected.

Edited October 18, 2022 by gbwead

[KaynineXL]

I don't see any issue with an early feedback post while it's fresh in our minds. I think it's easy forget what happened just weeks after a seasonal event and writing down improvements as you're going along is definitely a smart thing to do.

 

It's a shame people would bash on Unnefable though, whether you agree or disagree with some decisions, he's put a lot of time and effort into selflessly hosting this event so should be treated with a bit of respect for that.

[caioxlive13]

I have a biggest idea for the WC 6. Instead of making a donate system to qualify teams, this can be used only for selecting captains. Also, allow some countrys to have secondary teams if two captains payed(Example, if two captains register for Brasil, the one that donates more choose if want use name West Brazil, while the other will use East Brasil). When ended the team selections, all teams will be displayed and players will select for which team will play. If country fail to get 6, then captain will be refunded and the players will be ellegible to "Rest of" teams. On pickup teams, we will have 6 teams pickup ellegible: Latin Party, North America United, West Europe Team, East Europe Team, African Nations and Asia - Oceania Collab team. Captains that donate more will pick one of those teams, and will have all players that don't get picked for their respective country teams. This will be decided before player signups starts, because some players can withdraw from their countrys to play in Pickup teams, for multiple reasons(Like fearing being benched due to bad relation with captain, or other player better on same tier, or even if player don't think that can trust on captain.)

Also, if a player register for a country, he can select if want to play to a country team or in the pick up team for that region.
The teamplate will look like this:

Spoiler

IGN:
Country:
Team Selected(Can only Answer the name of team or the region, example: US East/US South/US West/North America United):
Tiers:

Quick note: Players can change their tier preference on the middle of tour, but LC compatibility will be decided with the entry submited on first post. Example: My country have 5 players to play LC, but some decided to no longer play. Unless you have only 1 or no player able to play LC, your team will still be compatible with tier. Also, compatibility will only be changed after week ends.

Example:
Brasil Teams:
West Brazil - Captain: Clorokina
East Brazil - Captain: Makarov

Pickup Teams:
Latin Party - Captain; zLumiere

IGN: CaioXLive
Country: Brasil
Team Selected: West Brazil/Latin Party
Tiers: OU/NU/LC

 

After teams being build, then will starts a Qualifying Country Tournament, divided into the 4 regions(America/Africa/Europe/Asia-Oceania). All of them with 4 spots. 1st-4th of qualifiers will play on First Division, 5th-8th on second, and remaining will play only next year. The first and second division countrys will be splited on 4 groups of 4 in each division, and then play in 6-week group stage. Leader Group on First Division will go to play-offs, 4th place will be relegated, 3rd place will go to a Play-off. In second division, Group leader gets promoted, 2nd group place play a play-off with the 3rd group places, for spots in first division of WC 7. 4th place will need to defend their spots against teams on Regional Tournaments.

About tiers: 

The tiers will be a 6 tiers for first stage:
OU/UU/NU/DB/LC or OU, depends if team are compatible or not/Home team Choice(No LC)

On finals will be a 6 tier rotation, with a Tiebreak if needed: 
Regular: OU/UU/NU/DB/2x Captain Choice
Tie-Break: OU/2x Captain Choice

About local stadium:
Teams can go on a auction and buy some place to use as their home stadium and play their match on Home. Only requirment is to be a area of at least 7x7 with free space, and also being accesible to everyone. For instance, a random cave on Iron Island aren't ellegible but the Battleground on the Survival area of Sinnoh's Battle Frontier island is ellegible.

Edited October 19, 2022 by caioxlive13