Unofficial Formats - Discussion Thread.

[caioxlive13]

The intention of this thread is become a open place to discuss about formats that aren't official + LC(That even not being a official format, have their club to discussion), like the Monotype, 1v1, VGC format, etc... This also serve as a reference to players that want to host tournaments in those formats.

Common Clasules to all formats that have this message on Play Restrictions: "All standard Official tier clauses apply.":
Tournament Mode: All matches must be played on Tournament Mode with the level set to "50", unless the tier clasule say other thing.
Sleep Clasule: You can only put one mon of opponent to Sleep. Effect Spore Sleep and Self-Sleep due to Rest don't count on this clasule. If you try, the effect will fail.
Evasion Clause: If you use Double Team or Minimize, it won't have any effect. Bright Powder and Lax Incense cannot be used.
OHKO Clause: If you use Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, or Sheer Cold, it won't have any effect.

Turn Timer and Team Preview must be enabled unless the tier clasules say other thing.

On any match the timer limit is recommended to be set to 60 minutes. Some tours can Reduce/Increase the limit.
Moody, like on Official Formats, are banned from all formats here as well. 
 

List of current formats, their clasules and banlist:

Unofficial Formats Usage Data Sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/125Uk0blSCgH9p0a0GyKa-ZIbo4Vr5EmLqGazsxzJwKw/edit#gid=1208419929
(A quick reminder: I can't and i won't search around about tours on forums to pick data fot this sheet. I will pick usage of tours that i have acess to Team Previews only, on communitys that i take part. If any player hosted a tour on those formats, and have the usage data, you can and are encouraged to share with us.)
 

[1v1]1vs1 

Premise: 1v1  is a Metagame where players choose a Pokémon that they believe is capable of defeating most—if not all—other Pokémon in a one-on-one situation. Players are allowed to bring a team of three Pokémon to the game but must select only one to battle with. So, while your team of three should be able to cover a wide variety of common threats, the Pokémon you send out must be able to beat any of your opponent's Pokémon, or at least the one you think they will use against you.

 

Banlist:

Banned Pokémons:

- Whimsicott

- Dragonite 

Suspected Pokémons:

- Togekiss

Banned Items:

- Focus Sash
- Bright Powder
- Lax Incense

Banned Moves: 

- Perish Song - Under discussion
- Flash 
- Kinesis
- Leaf Tornado
- Mirror Shot
- Mud Bomb 
- Mud-Slap
- Muddy Water
- Night Daze
- Octazooka
- Sand Attack
- Smokescreen
- Swagger
 

Clauses:
Evasion Moves Clause: If you use Double Team or Minimize, it won't have any effect.
OHKO Clause: If you use Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, or Sheer Cold, it won't have any effect.
Species Clause: A player cannot have two Pokémon with the same Pokédex number on a team.
Force-Switch Clasule: You cannot use Dragon Tail, U-Turn, Volt Switch, Roar or Whrilwind. Using result in automatic loss.

All Pokémon must be level 50.

1v1 Council:
- TBD(leader)
- TBD
- TBD
- TBD
- TBD

Spoiler

[1v1 VR]1vs1 Viability Ranking 

TBD

 

[VGC] Video Game Championship

Premise:

VGC is The Pokémon Company International's official tournament series but played on pokemmo. This format is played as a Doubles Battle it only allows you to select 4 out of your 6 Pokémon to send into battle. All games will be played in best out of 3 series with the 6 pokemon you brought.
 

Clauses:

Uniqueness Clause: A player cannot have two Pokémon with the same Pokédex number on a team. Additionally, no two Pokémon may hold the same item

All Pokémon must be level 50
When send the challenge, Team Preview must be Disabled.

VGC Council:
- TBD(leader)
- TBD
- TBD
- TBD
- TBD

Spoiler

[VGC VR]Video Game Championship Viability Ranking 

S Rank

Salamence

Milotic

Metagross

Hitmontop

 

A+ Rank

Tyranitar

Serperior 

Porygon2

 

A Rank

Torkoal

Venusaur

Blastoise

Hariyama

Whimsicott

 

A- Rank

Scizor

Chandelure

Gigalith

Mamoswine

 

B+ Rank

Raichu

Hydreigon

Crobat

Reuniclus

 

B Rank

Excadrill

Togekiss

Dusclops

Rotom-W

 

B- Rank

Bronzong

Rhyperior

Garchomp

Dragonite

 

 

[Mono]Monotype

Premise

Monotype is a format where all Pokémon on your team must share a common type. Both single- and dual-type Pokémon are allowed. For instance, Gengar is eligible for both mono-Ghost and mono-Poison teams. 

Play Restrictions : 

All standard Official tier clauses apply, plus:

Same Type Clause: All Pokémon in a team must share a type.
 

Banned Items:

Damp Rock

Note: Bright Powder and Lax Incense are banned by Evasion Clasule.

Monotype Council:
- TBD(leader)
- TBD
- TBD
- TBD
- TBD
 

Spoiler

[Mono VR]Monotype Viability Ranking 

TBD

 

[UT]Untiered

Premise

Untiered is a metagame as defined in the Pokemmo Pokedex that bans all Pokémon from the upper tiers in OU, UU & NU

Play Restrictions : 

Players cannot use Pokémon from the Uber tier, OU, UUBL, UU, NUBL, NU.

All standard Official tier clauses apply.

 

UTBL(Untiered Ban List):

- Sableye - Waiting SV Movepool Update, allowed until happen.

Under Suspect Test:
Sawk
Emboar

Untiered Council:
- TBD(leader)
- TBD
- TBD
- TBD
- TBD
 

Spoiler

[UT VR]Untiered Viability Ranking 

S+
Emboar

S
Manectric
Claydol

S-
Audino
Alomomola
Ferroseed
Scyther
Dodrio

A+
Sawk
Swelllow
Amoonguss
Camerupt
Aggron

A
Garbodor
Torterra
Aerodactyl
Archeops
Galvantula
Omastar
Klinklang

A-
Stunfisk
Sandslash
Rotom-frost
Eelektross

B+
Vileplume
Whimsicott
Electivire
Abomasnow
Dusknoir
Drifblim
Haunter

B
Linoone
Raichu
Accelgor
Ninetales
Kingler
Ursaring
Hippopotas
Stoutland
Luxray
Cacturne
Kadabra
HItmonlee
Qwilfish

B-
Diglett
Chimecho
Glalie
Prinplup
Cryogonal
Gabite
Beartic
Leafeon
Jynx
Butterfree
Crustle

[LG]The Loser's Game

Premise:
In this Format, you win by losing! That is to say the win condition is changed from knocking out all of your opponent's Pokemon to winning by knocking all of yours out first.
Pokemon in Loser's Gameare limited in how they are able to KO themselves, as spamming Memento or Healing Wish would become uncompetitive quickly and these moves are banned. Instead, Pokemon have to rely on indirect damage from effects like Black Sludge, Substitute, Belly Drum This leads to a ton of counter play with Taunt, Imprison, Trick, Heal Pulse, and more.

Rules:
Mechanic: First player to knock out 6 of their own Pokemon wins.

 

Banlist:

Banned Pokemon:

Shedinja

 

Banned Items:

Choice Scarf

 

Banned Moves:

Explosion

Memento

Healing Wish

Self Destruct

Final Gambit

Lunar Dance

Magic Room

 

Unbanned Moves:

Fissure

Horn Drill
Sheer Cold
Guillotine
 

Banned Abilities:

Infiltrator

Magic Guard

 

Clauses:

All Pokémon must be level 50

You must have a full team of 6 Pokemon

Family Clause: You can only use one Pokemon from their respective evolutionary line (Example: Don't are allowed Two Gardevoirs, or Gardevoir + Ralts/Kirilia/Gallade)

The Loser's Game Council:
- TBD(leader)
- TBD
- TBD
- TBD
- TBD

Spoiler

[LG VR]The Loser's Game Viability Ranking

TBD

[NFE]Not Fully Evolved

Premise

NFE is a Metagaming that you use only mons Not Full Evolved to battle, right place to mons that you don't use commonly shine.

Play Restrictions : 

All Pokémon that can no longer evolve are Banned

All standard Official tier clauses apply.

Banned Pokemon:

All "NFE" mons from Ubers, OU, UUBL, UU, NUBL, NU and UTBL, plus:
- Rhydon
- Vigoroth

NFE Council:
- TBD(leader)
- TBD
- TBD
- TBD
- TBD

Spoiler

[NFE VR]Not Fully Evolved Viability Ranking

TBD

[3v3]3vs3 Quick-fire Battle

Premise

A format inspired on Battle Frontier's Battle Style. You bring only 3 pokemon to battle. 

Banlist:
Sleep-Induction Moves(Example: Spore/Sing/Sleep Powder/Hypnosis....)
Effect Spore
Serene Grace
Swagger
Arena Trap
Shadow Tag
 

Play Restrictions:

All standard Official tier clauses apply(Except sleep moves since all are banned), plus:
Item Clasule: You cannot use the same item in two pokemons.
Weather Clasule: You cannot have the combination of Drizzle/Rain Dance + Swift Swin, Drought/Sunny Day + Chrolophyll , Sand Stream/Sandstorm + Sand Rush/Sand Force , and/or Snow Warning/Hail + Snow Poll(or any of their traductions, i'm aware that this ability are translated on some languages like PT.) on your team. A quick reminder, abilitys like Hydration or Leaf Guard(That don't abuse from weather to boost power or speed), and moves benefited by weather like SolarBeam, Thunder , Hurricane and Blizzard, are allowed for now.
Time limit must be set to 30 minutes.

Level cap must be set to None, 30 or 50.

3v3 Council:
- TBD(leader)
- TBD
- TBD
- TBD
- TBD
 

Spoiler

[3v3 VR]3vs3 Quick-fire Battle Viability Ranking

TBD

If you have questions about banlist or want to ask a unban of something on those formats, this is the right place for it.

Edited January 6, 2023 by caioxlive13

[Huargensy]

I guess it's good for people who like to play untiers to have this type of discussion, although I'm not sure if it will be well received, but at least the idea is good

[caioxlive13]

6 hours ago, Huargensy said:

I guess it's good for people who like to play untiers to have this type of discussion, although I'm not sure if it will be well received, but at least the idea is good

The idea is give a reference for players that wish to do tours on those format. Biggest eye is on Untiered, that will appear on Grand Slam. But without any reference to new players I decided to build a reference. Using the same thread, I decided to include other non-official formats instead of open new threads for each format.

[caioxlive13]

Update: Added a prototype of a VR for VGC. They're initially based on usage so it's very imprecise. Place your opinion of shifts and we will discuss.

 

 

[EmilioGarras]

Very cool post. Very useful too if someone wants to organize non oficial tournaments for their teams. 

[caioxlive13]

h

1 hour ago, EmilioGarras said:

Very cool post. Very useful too if someone wants to organize non oficial tournaments for their teams. 

Also, Grand slam will have untiered amd today i've discuss with some friends and build a VR. If you wish to play, better look on VR to teambuild

[caioxlive13]

Tiering Actions until now:

 

[1v1] 

Whimsicott, DNite + Multiscale gets Quick-Banned. Dragonite Multiscale aren't released yet but still can appear on Alpha Swarms. Preventive Ban.

 

[Monotype]

Damp Rock Quick-banned. 

 

[UT]

Sableye + Prankster are temporarily banned. Sharpedo is Banned.

Edited October 25, 2022 by caioxlive13

[TohnR]

I'd gladly help you with a future 1v1 Viability Ranking, should also get in touch with @repposh in game as he has the most knowledge of the tier, if you want to do that.

[caioxlive13]

16 minutes ago, TohnR said:

I'd gladly help you with a future 1v1 Viability Ranking, should also get in touch with @repposh in game as he has the most knowledge of the tier, if you want to do that.

i will appreciate it. Thanks.

[Onraider]

Loser's Game when?

 

[caioxlive13]

15 minutes ago, Onraider said:

Loser's Game when?

 

Soon. Kidding, maybe do today or tommorow.

[OrangeManiac]

Quote

[VGC VR]Video Game Championship Viability Ranking

 

What does this base on? Has there been an actual community attempt to viability rank PokeMMO VGC or are these just made up by you? Either way, I highly disagree at least half of these rankings.

[TohnR]

16 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

What does this base on? Has there been an actual community attempt to viability rank PokeMMO VGC or are these just made up by you? Either way, I highly disagree at least half of these rankings.

On 10/19/2022 at 5:16 PM, caioxlive13 said:

Update: Added a prototype of a VR for VGC. They're initially based on usage so it's very imprecise. Place your opinion of shifts and we will discuss.

 

@OrangeManiac Caio gathered usages from the PCL (by Quinn) and VGC League (by Doc) and probably used the usages to determine the viability
He knows his list is flawed 😄 

[OrangeManiac]

3 minutes ago, TohnR said:

@OrangeManiac Caio gathered usages from the PCL (by Quinn) and VGC League (by Doc) and probably used the usages to determine the viability
He knows his list is flawed 😄 

Ah, read only the OP and skipped all the comments. Well, either way it's far better idea to base the rankings to MMO Dubs viability rankings and then slightly adjust if Pokemon does better/worse in 4v4 environment. For the most part the changes are very small, in VGC format matchup specific Pokemon are slightly better because you don't have to bring them to every game while Pokemon that do well in every battle aren't as needed. But even then, if a Pokemon is used only to counter specific matchups they cant be really above B ranks while very splashable Pokemon are generally A rank and higher, that's literally within the definition of those rankings even in "normal" Doubles.

 

The sample size for this, even if it was a VGC specific event is so small you shouldn't draw any conclusions. Also, you can see the hype effect of new Pokemon in here as well. There is no way in million years Milotic is ranked higher than Rotom-Wash, but in this list Milotic is S while Rotom-W is B. And that's just one example..

[caioxlive13]

11 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

Ah, read only the OP and skipped all the comments. Well, either way it's far better idea to base the rankings to MMO Dubs viability rankings and then slightly adjust if Pokemon does better/worse in 4v4 environment. For the most part the changes are very small, in VGC format matchup specific Pokemon are slightly better because you don't have to bring them to every game while Pokemon that do well in every battle aren't as needed. But even then, if a Pokemon is used only to counter specific matchups they cant be really above B ranks while very splashable Pokemon are generally A rank and higher, that's literally within the definition of those rankings even in "normal" Doubles.

 

The sample size for this, even if it was a VGC specific event is so small you shouldn't draw any conclusions. Also, you can see the hype effect of new Pokemon in here as well. There is no way in million years Milotic is ranked higher than Rotom-Wash, but in this list Milotic is S while Rotom-W is B. And that's just one example..

First of all, is a prototype and it's very imprecise. Second, Doubles =/= VGC. A lot of things can change specially because of Item Clasule. Mienshao, for example, is a very good mon on Doubles but on VGC is a complete Joke. Also, Raichu can be very viable on VGC.

 

Also, most part of usage comes from VGC seasonal and players don't change teams so the "Matchup Fishing" Barely exists.

 

If want to give your opinion, you're welcome. However, take notice of different clasules of format.

Edited October 25, 2022 by caioxlive13

[OrangeManiac]

6 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

First of all, is a prototype and it's very imprecise. Second, Doubles =/= VGC. A lot of things can change specially because of Item Clasule. Mienshao, for example, is a very good mon on Doubles but on VGC is a complete Joke. Also, Raichu can be very viable on VGC.

 

Also, most part of usage comes from VGC seasonal and players don't change teams so the "Matchup Fishing" Barely exists.

 

If want to give your opinion, you're welcome. However, take notice of different clasules of format.

I am well aware of the clauses in VGC format. I qualified to the last Pokemon World Championships in VGC so I am well versed of the dynamics of 4v4 battles. You don't need to lecture me about VGC dynamics or attempt to feed me any bullshit that somehow item clause or 4v4 completely changes the viability ranking of a Pokemon. The fact you call Mienshao a "joke" in VGC format just tells me how completely clueless you are about both Doubles and the mechanics of 4v4.

 

I don't really care for arguing with you, in any discussion you're just so stubborn there's no convincing you about anything and you argue a lot of things without having any clue what you're talking about. I couldn't care less about this thread on its own but if we're to develop VGC viability rankings to potentially improve VGC in MMO environment then it at least should be properly done. And it also should be run by a person who has some idea what they're doing, and someone who doesn't just state obvious facts without any substance.

[caioxlive13]

3 hours ago, OrangeManiac said:

 The fact you call Mienshao a "joke" in VGC format just tells me how completely clueless you are about both Doubles and the mechanics of 4v4.

 

I don't are lying. Item Clasule is one of main reasons to Mien become a joke compared to their viability on Doubles. Some player talk with me before: Why i will use Sash Mienshao if i can run hitmontop, that don't need to run sash, and leave sash free to be used on any other mon?

Not without reason, Mienshao ended VGC seasonal below #40 of usage list and iirc, most part of players that enter on a tour are taking seriously the tour. Isn't a regular matchmaking doubles that exists players with trash teams, creating a chaos on usage list. So it become a little more accurate. Not 100%, but this is what we have for now.

Edited October 25, 2022 by caioxlive13

[NotMyWaifu]

1 hour ago, caioxlive13 said:

Item Clasule is one of main reasons to Mien become a joke compared to their viability on Doubles.

If your argument is that item clause destroys its viability then you need to prove not only that Mienshao absolutely needs focus sash to function, but also that it needs to be paired with something else that uses a focus sash to function. You haven't done that at all.

 

1 hour ago, caioxlive13 said:

Some player talk with me before: Why i will use Sash Mienshao if i can run hitmontop, that don't need to run sash, and leave sash free to be used on any other mon?

Because maybe the other 5 pokemon on your team don't need a sash. Maybe your team prefers the increase in power and speed Mien has over Top. Maybe you already have an intimidate pokemon and don't want to double up on that and create a huge weakness to defiant/competitive pokemon. Maybe the U-turn + regenerator combo fits your team well. Maybe you want a fast taunt user, or something with knock off. There are lots of reasons to use Mien over Top, it just depends on the rest of your team.

[OrangeManiac]

2 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

I don't are lying. Item Clasule is one of main reasons to Mien become a joke compared to their viability on Doubles. Some player talk with me before: Why i will use Sash Mienshao if i can run hitmontop, that don't need to run sash, and leave sash free to be used on any other mon?

Not without reason, Mienshao ended VGC seasonal below #40 of usage list and iirc, most part of players that enter on a tour are taking seriously the tour. Isn't a regular matchmaking doubles that exists players with trash teams, creating a chaos on usage list. So it become a little more accurate. Not 100%, but this is what we have for now.

Okay, so this is exactly what I mean. You make up your mind about things with extremely poor "evidence" and then it is impossible for you to conceptualize any countering viewpoints about anything. For you, it is enough to call something a joke because in the first ever VGC seasonal from the relatively small sample pool no one really wanted to utilize Mienshao. You consider that as enough proof to make ridiculously confident statements, which you would never make if you had played a game of Pokemon at any serious level. For you it is enough to disregard Mienshao because some player told you they don't want to use Mienshao over Hitmontop. For you, that is enough to make a case. It is impossible to argue with you because you accept poor logic as proof and refuse to discuss any legitimate counterpoints. That's why you shouldn't be in charge of a single community discussion thread whatsoever.

 

I could go on a long tangent about explaining how disregarding Life Orb or Fighting Gem Mienshao shows your complete lack of understanding of the game but it's all besides the point. The key point is the level of confidence you have for absolutely god awful arguments.

[caioxlive13]

1 hour ago, NotMyWaifu said:

Because maybe the other 5 pokemon on your team don't need a sash. Maybe your team prefers the increase in power and speed Mien has over Top. Maybe you already have an intimidate pokemon and don't want to double up on that and create a huge weakness to defiant/competitive pokemon. Maybe the U-turn + regenerator combo fits your team well. Maybe you want a fast taunt user, or something with knock off. There are lots of reasons to use Mien over Top, it just depends on the rest of your team.

In most part of cases, they want the sash on other mon. For example, a player that runs Raichu, will never use Mien with Sash. Raichu iirc, all used this item.
Raichu ended on #17 of most used mons of VGC. Basically if you want to run Mienshao, you will need to use Fight Gem or Life Orb. using LO is very risked because that means that other mon cannot use it, and maybe some mon need of it. Only left fight gem to use. This make their Item Option very restrictive. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by caioxlive13

[caioxlive13]

20 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

Okay, so this is exactly what I mean. You make up your mind about things with extremely poor "evidence" and then it is impossible for you to conceptualize any countering viewpoints about anything. For you, it is enough to call something a joke because in the first ever VGC seasonal from the relatively small sample pool no one really wanted to utilize Mienshao. You consider that as enough proof to make ridiculously confident statements, which you would never make if you had played a game of Pokemon at any serious level. For you it is enough to disregard Mienshao because some player told you they don't want to use Mienshao over Hitmontop. For you, that is enough to make a case. It is impossible to argue with you because you accept poor logic as proof and refuse to discuss any legitimate counterpoints. That's why you shouldn't be in charge of a single community discussion thread whatsoever.

 

I could go on a long tangent about explaining how disregarding Life Orb or Fighting Gem Mienshao shows your complete lack of understanding of the game but it's all besides the point. The key point is the level of confidence you have for absolutely god awful arguments.

*sigh* okay, if you can bring to me a good VR, bring it and we end this unnecessary drama.    
About the starting position, it's strange VGC players for some reason prefer Milotic over Rotom-W. Another thing is that practically all milotics had the Competitive ability.
In the sheet I properly separated the uses from the Rotom forms, and Rotom-Mow ended the VGC above Rotom-Wash in the usage table(Mow: #27 , 10 uses and 6 wins. Wash: #28 , 10 uses and 5 wins . ). Milotic finished well above the seasonal VGC. 3rd most used with 52 games used and 30 wins. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by caioxlive13

[JeanMarc]

To add on the discussion about VGC viability rankings:
-Doc's tour had teams built a week or 2 after the first batch of HAs (and Competitive/Neutralizing Gas) came out, so shiny toy syndrome was over represented.

-Doc's tour also had evasion clause and sleep clause, which affected usage of some Pokemon which saw significantly more usage in PCL than that (Amoonguss being a big one).

-Most of the players who played in Doc's tour don't even typically use Mienshao in regular doubles, so it's not surprising that it saw almost no usage in VGC, sash had very little to do with it.

-You mention Mienshao not really being good because of competing for sash, but sash isn't even a very contested item, even in the viability rankings list. If you look at the full list, 6-7 pokemon at most (potential 6th being Pelipper which isn't on the list even), most of them either have little synergy with Mienshao, aren't that great, or both.

1) Whimsicott - Can easily run a bulky set with a berry (Occa or Coba) to free the sash

2) Venusaur - if you're running Mienshao sun, you're probably running a team so offensive that you can be fine with LO or a gem on either of the 2. They definitely clash for the sash, but it wouldn't be enough to stop you from running both if you really wanted to.

3) Chandelure - Chandelure often runs other items (Gem, Life Orb) so it doesn't necessarily cause a clash here.

4) Mamoswine - That one is definitely bad enough that you probably run Hitmontop instead

5) Raichu - Was a result of new toy syndrome. Definitely overrated, probably doesn't even want sash in its optimal team.

6) Excadrill - Excadrill can easily run another item, but Mienshao also probably prefers another item because of sand being annoying.

 

Because the sample size is so small, there is a lot of bias towards some players's preferences, which doesn't reflect proper viability, especially when half of the data compiled, if not more, is based on a different ruleset than the one the viability rankings is based on.

[caioxlive13]

7 minutes ago, JeanMarc said:

To add on the discussion about VGC viability rankings:
-Doc's tour had teams built a week or 2 after the first batch of HAs (and Competitive/Neutralizing Gas) came out, so shiny toy syndrome was over represented.

-Doc's tour also had evasion clause and sleep clause, which affected usage of some Pokemon which saw significantly more usage in PCL than that (Amoonguss being a big one).

-Most of the players who played in Doc's tour don't even typically use Mienshao in regular doubles, so it's not surprising that it saw almost no usage in VGC, sash had very little to do with it.

-You mention Mienshao not really being good because of competing for sash, but sash isn't even a very contested item, even in the viability rankings list. If you look at the full list, 6-7 pokemon at most (potential 6th being Pelipper which isn't on the list even), most of them either have little synergy with Mienshao, aren't that great, or both.

1) Whimsicott - Can easily run a bulky set with a berry (Occa or Coba) to free the sash

2) Venusaur - if you're running Mienshao sun, you're probably running a team so offensive that you can be fine with LO or a gem on either of the 2. They definitely clash for the sash, but it wouldn't be enough to stop you from running both if you really wanted to.

3) Chandelure - Chandelure often runs other items (Gem, Life Orb) so it doesn't necessarily cause a clash here.

4) Mamoswine - That one is definitely bad enough that you probably run Hitmontop instead

5) Raichu - Was a result of new toy syndrome. Definitely overrated, probably doesn't even want sash in its optimal team.

6) Excadrill - Excadrill can easily run another item, but Mienshao also probably prefers another item because of sand being annoying.

 

Because the sample size is so small, there is a lot of bias towards some players's preferences, which doesn't reflect proper viability, especially when half of the data compiled, if not more, is based on a different ruleset than the one the viability rankings is based on.

Like i sayed. Picked usage on tour and create a Prototype of VR. Very imprecise, but i apreciate this type of feedback to fix it.

About mien, on PCL ended on 20th place of most used table. Very above, but not too much higher.(Also on the same PCL, Hitmontop ended as a mon most used.)

On VGC seasonal, there was a weird case. Before finals, hitmontop are top used on VGC. But no player that use it decide to participate of finals and he dropped a bit of usage. 
Also, explain something to me: If the "New Toy Syndrome" can impact, how Weezing and Slaking combo are used by literrally 1 player on the entire tour?

Edited October 25, 2022 by caioxlive13

[caioxlive13]

@OnraiderIncluded Loser's Game!

[JeanMarc]

24 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

Like i sayed. Picked usage on tour and create a Prototype of VR. Very imprecise, but i apreciate this type of feedback to fix it.

About mien, on PCL ended on 20th place of most used table. Very above, but not too much higher.(Also on the same PCL, Hitmontop ended as a mon most used.)

On VGC seasonal, there was a weird case. Before finals, hitmontop are top used on VGC. But no player that use it decide to participate of finals and he dropped a bit of usage. 
Also, explain something to me: If the "New Toy Syndrome" can impact, how Weezing and Slaking combo are used by literrally 1 player on the entire tour?

Weezing+Slaking wasn't used much despite new toy syndrome because people realized extremely quickly that it was too gimmicky.  Most of the others on the list showed at least some form of potential on more archetypes so people explored them more before realizing that they're underwhelming.

 

And just because a Pokemon is better in more scenarios, it doesn't mean that another pokemon is completely invalidated. Hitmontop is definitely better than Mienshao in most archetypes, but on more hyper offensive teams, Mienshao fits better. There's a difference between "Mienshao should be on the same tier as Hitmontop" and "Mienshao is definitely worse than Hitmontop, but it still has a solid enough role to be ranked in viability rankings", and the 2nd is what I'm arguing for.