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December 2022- Movement Discussion Thread


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Still using 4.36% cutoffs till the end of the season hopefully we should return to the norm next season.

 

To UU from OU:

Ludicolo
Salamence
Staraptor

 

 

To UU from NU:

Golbat
Gligar
Sableye

 

 

To NU from UU:

Wobbuffet
Quagsire

 

 

 

I could also upon request post the BL/BL2 mons below cutoffs if its perhaps time to re-evaluate anything, if not I'll just discard them.

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9 minutes ago, Munya said:

Theres definitely somebody on this very forum that does it just because you say that lol

Senile openly laughing at the notion of Jolteon being OU back in 2017 created some sort of karmic retribution that has kept this shitmon in the tier since.

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Would it be possible to get data based on ELO? For instance, what's Jolteon's usage/win rate from:

  • 400 to 499 ELO?
  • 500 to 599 ELO?
  • 600 to 699 ELO?
  • 700 to 799 ELO?
  • 800 to 899 ELO?
  • etc.

Don't get me wrong. The data we have access to right now is a great step forward compared to what we had access to back in 2015. However, nothing has been done since? Why stop there? I understand it takes probably a lot of work and I really appreciate what has been done so far. I'm just wondering if there is a next step. Can we expect more? People have asked for weighed usage based on ELO for a while now and that was never realistic in the past, but why not now? Is it still impossible to implement or do devs/staff do not see this as a priority? I understand if it's not a priority, but some clarity on the matter would be appreciated.

Edited by gbwead
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At least one TC member has asked to BL raptor, told them to make a thread for a quickban if thats something we need to do.


I do not have the capabilities to do it, and i doubt its in the current framework for usage, but I'm sure its within the possibility to be added eventually.

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4 minutes ago, Munya said:

At least one TC member has asked to BL raptor, told them to make a thread for a quickban if thats something we need to do.


I do not have the capabilities to do it, and i doubt its in the current framework for usage, but I'm sure its within the possibility to be added eventually.

What about Salamence?

 

I'm against instant banning immediately, but I would be strongly for a suspect test.

 

My justification is alongside possibly replacing Crobat as an excellent support mon with a great ability, unlike bat it has a better offensive pressure with either DD or specs/mixed set (not saying these are going to be threatening in the tier, hence the suspect test).

Edited by Imperial
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Nobody has said anything yet but its still early in the day.

3 minutes ago, gbwead said:

What's the justification for Dugtrio being banned from UU? Empoleon is gone. Porygon-Z is gone. Why is Dugtrio still banned?

It is one of the ones below the cutoff, if that ban needs to be re-evaluated then we can, but nobody has mentioned it.

 

All of the following BL mons are below cutoffs just to get it out there

Spoiler

BL1

Dugtrio

Haxorus
P2

Pz

 

BL2

Rhyperior

 

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2 minutes ago, Munya said:

It is one of the ones below the cutoff, if that bans needs to be re-evaluated then we can, but nobody has mentioned it.

Well, I'm mentionning it now XD

 

Also, are we going back to regular usage cycles in 2023 (1.7% & 6.7 cutoff points for the first two months)?

 

Please consider a new system that will desynchronize:

  1. OU/UU usage movements & UU/NU usage movements
  2. Move up & Move down cutoff points
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I personally think salamence can be a good suspect test in UU especially filling crobats role as a good defensive defoger. (like incog mentioned)

 

And since crawdaunt is dominating UU, Salamence can check it properly:

 

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Salamence: 78-94 (38.6 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
 
17 minutes ago, gbwead said:

What's the justification for Dugtrio being banned from UU? Empoleon is gone. Porygon-Z is gone. Why is Dugtrio still banned?

About dugtrio i agree we have to re-evaluate about it so we keep u guys updated about that matter
Edited by PoseidonWrath
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28 minutes ago, PoseidonWrath said:

I personally think salamence can be a good suspect test in UU especially filling crobats role as a good defensive defoger. (like incog mentioned)

 

And since crawdaunt is dominating UU, Salamence can check it properly:

 

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Salamence: 78-94 (38.6 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

The main drawback to Salamence is its lack of speed (if it runs full bulk) making it harder to stop certain set up mons.

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Well, we can see the impact of low ladder. Jolteon is 4.83 usage, but if usage from low ladder gets discarded, most likely he drop.

I can suggest reformulate the usage system? Like:

  • 450 or lower Elo matches will not have their usage counted at all.
  • 450 - 550 Elo matches will have their usage counted normally.
  • 550 - 650 Elo matches will have their usage counted with height 2.
  • 650+ Elo matches will have their usage counted with height 3.

Maybe not look bigger, but it is.

I'm assuming that this happen if the usage follow the system:

  • Jolteon, Espeon and Milotic quickly drop to UU.
  • Serperior and Dragonite gets a better position on Usage Table
  • The usage will reflect more closely the Viability Rankings, since better mons will keep on high usage due to top ranks use it more.
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After this month, im 99% sure again that TC really needs a complete revamp. And others arguing that dugtrio is healthy in UU or any meta game to be fair, im losing the last drops of faith I had in this community.

 

 

Edit: Also, I like how people put crobat that has a pretty good supportive movepool to be compared to mence, that offers defog and the generic movepool. I can understand what they mean through filling the defogger role, but does it fill crobat niche? Should it be treated as a defensive option rather than a oppressive offensive option?  

Edited by razimove
Edited to not post again.
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