January 2023- Movement Discussion

[LifeStyleNORE]

give sharpness gallade and moveset updates ty

[gbwead]

What pisses me off the most is not the pp nerf itself. I haven't played gen 9, so I will choose to remain open minded. I'm upset because they didn't do anything about regenerator making duels very long and made regenerator more valuable too. Please explain to me how Mienshao AV + Amoongus Regen Cores are going to now break each other faster thanks to that PP nerf. They don't even use these moves. 

 

Duels that were lasting 1h are still going to last 1h. When stall players face each other, their recovery moves are barely used. Blissey doesn't need to use Softboiled when switching into another Blissey. The duels affected by this change is when Stall/Balance face Offense. Those duels will be shorter, but they never came close to going over 1 hour. 

 

Overall, this change fixes nothing. So thanks for nothing.

 

[pachima]

I agree these changes won't matter much when it comes to regen, and that it actually buffs the ability, as if it wasn't already a problem.

If I am not mistaken, gen9 regen was nerfed to 25% heal instead of 33%. That could be nice, especially since it is pretty much a given we are getting other regens eventually.

[RysPicz]

Or just create a regenerator clause, one Pokémon with Regenerator per team. What do you guys think?

[suigin]

4 hours ago, pachima said:

Funny. MMO balancing has always buffed a more defensive playstyle to the point MMO meta is by far the stalliest of most gen5 metas out there.

 

Funnier. Most were so hyped to see stall further buffed with hazards slapped on most walls, because apparently MMO isn't stally enough for those people.

 

But God forbid them to actually balance the game and for the first time in ages giving a buff to offense, when compared to official counterparts.

 

Besides, some people completely forget the fact Pokemon is a game and are willing to spend 1 hour of their life per match, mindlessly clicking recovery buttons, just because they are either unable to think, or simply refuse to. This, while not being necessarily a bad thing, is not fun, and happens WAY too often, the the point most tournaments are dragged to hell because of a few matches that delay the whole thing. Most people don't have 5-6 hours to invest straight in each tournament, and honestly, neither should anyone. Again, I am not saying it shouldn't happen at all. Just that it happens way too often.

 

Does this completely kill defensive styles? I don't know. I can't know, and neither can anyone. We have never tested similar changes, and any comparison between this and other metagames outside this game are irrelevant. And while it may indeed unbalance this game and turn into an issue, it's a risk at least I would be willing to take. If it works, we may be able to turn tournament into a much more enjoyable experience. If it doesn't, then they'll find a way to mitigate it somehow if deemed necessary.

 

 

Difference is stall was complete dogshit even with those perceived buffs and our meta was still pretty damn offensive. I'd tell you to try less Taunt Conkeldurrs and try some actual stallbreakers but there's no point in the current state of the meta.

Team versatility is good, it's fun and allows for creative and diverse builds, gen 5 in its rawest state was considered dogshit because it was nothing but weather spam much like what we are gonna have on greater quantities.

 

3 hours ago, RysPicz said:

I can understand the argument that it's inveitable at some point, but is this the moment to do it?

This is the thing that pisses me off the most. For years we were lied to with stuff like "Oh we can't have Ubers because we want as many options as possible to be playable and banning stuff would throw player effort down the drain" Then they pull this shit rendering many more walls, wallbreakers and stallbreakers completely pointless, all time money and effort gone down the drain. 

 

Only because "Oh we wanna stay close to the main games" by also doing idiotic changes like Cursed Body Gengar (Whose change makes sense in a meta where it can turn into Mega Gengar and there's a buffed Ghost and Poison type). OK then add Fairy, Draco Hydrei and 120 BP Outrage then, you clearly didn't care about wasting player effort to begin with so why even ignore this at this point? Hell I'm actually unironically proposing this because Clef wouldn't be broken anymore with this PP change. Fuck it, bring back OG Shadow Tag and give Dugtrio Swords Dance, it gets it now, buff Knock Off and Dark/Ghost as well, you wanna get as close to the main games as possible after all and banning Conk is always an option without caring about player effort.

Add legendaries too, we don't care about dungeons, "Broken in PVP means it's broken in PVE" is a complete lie you convinced yourselves of and continue to tell yourselves despite adding fanfic boss fights with hard capped damage rolls so they don't get oneshotted and moves/abilities more effects than a Yu Gi Oh card.

 

Wanting to stay close to the main games is also something that only affects PVP. The moment a fun, effective method of making money using stuff like Baton Pass or Shedinja are found they'll fanfic that shit to oblivion, they'll fuck with prices because It's an mmo, muh economy, we can't have players grinding the same place constantly, we need them to slowly grind something else instead of having FUN.

I can't wait for Moody to be abused in PVE stuff like league runs to see how people like Rache or Squirtle claw their faces off trying to find a solution to a problem everyone told them NOT to implement while "keeping it close to the original games :)".

 

Before Platinum was implemented the TC had more agency in things. You had a group of fairly knowledgable or good players who cared about your game and had the full intention to make it better. Given the fact that they didn't have the power to ban things from normal play, they still managed to create a fairly balanced OU meta, with a Conk that maybe was a smidgeon too strong but nothing insane. After that the devs took the reins and fucked everything up by ignoring comp players and deciding themselves despite having zero knowledge of comp. I suggest you go back to the old ways unless you want your playerbase to just be casuals roleplaying as Gym Leaders spamming rain teams in the ladder.

[Ziiiiio]

Just can't get why decreased pp of healing move. It breaks the balance of this game or it was a brainless following to new generation? 

 

Thanks for this free and fun game you made but you need think more about the updates this time, easiest way is let a person who knows PVP be part of your member. Absolutly  these changes came too rush.

[caioxlive13]

5 hours ago, pachima said:

I agree these changes won't matter much when it comes to regen, and that it actually buffs the ability, as if it wasn't already a problem.

If I am not mistaken, gen9 regen was nerfed to 25% heal instead of 33%. That could be nice, especially since it is pretty much a given we are getting other regens eventually.

Sadly don't get nerfed. But would be nice to happen here because regen will be used more and more by balanced cores. And i don't are talking about Regenerator only, Poison Heal too.

[Imperial]

Shaymin XD

[caioxlive13]

9 hours ago, suigin said:

Difference is stall was complete dogshit even with those perceived buffs and our meta was still pretty damn offensive. I'd tell you to try less Taunt Conkeldurrs and try some actual stallbreakers but there's no point in the current state of the meta.

Team versatility is good, it's fun and allows for creative and diverse builds, gen 5 in its rawest state was considered dogshit because it was nothing but weather spam much like what we are gonna have on greater quantities.

 

This is the thing that pisses me off the most. For years we were lied to with stuff like "Oh we can't have Ubers because we want as many options as possible to be playable and banning stuff would throw player effort down the drain" Then they pull this shit rendering many more walls, wallbreakers and stallbreakers completely pointless, all time money and effort gone down the drain. 

 

Only because "Oh we wanna stay close to the main games" by also doing idiotic changes like Cursed Body Gengar (Whose change makes sense in a meta where it can turn into Mega Gengar and there's a buffed Ghost and Poison type). OK then add Fairy, Draco Hydrei and 120 BP Outrage then, you clearly didn't care about wasting player effort to begin with so why even ignore this at this point? Hell I'm actually unironically proposing this because Clef wouldn't be broken anymore with this PP change. Fuck it, bring back OG Shadow Tag and give Dugtrio Swords Dance, it gets it now, buff Knock Off and Dark/Ghost as well, you wanna get as close to the main games as possible after all and banning Conk is always an option without caring about player effort.

Add legendaries too, we don't care about dungeons, "Broken in PVP means it's broken in PVE" is a complete lie you convinced yourselves of and continue to tell yourselves despite adding fanfic boss fights with hard capped damage rolls so they don't get oneshotted and moves/abilities more effects than a Yu Gi Oh card.

 

Wanting to stay close to the main games is also something that only affects PVP. The moment a fun, effective method of making money using stuff like Baton Pass or Shedinja are found they'll fanfic that shit to oblivion, they'll fuck with prices because It's an mmo, muh economy, we can't have players grinding the same place constantly, we need them to slowly grind something else instead of having FUN.

I can't wait for Moody to be abused in PVE stuff like league runs to see how people like Rache or Squirtle claw their faces off trying to find a solution to a problem everyone told them NOT to implement while "keeping it close to the original games :)".

 

Before Platinum was implemented the TC had more agency in things. You had a group of fairly knowledgable or good players who cared about your game and had the full intention to make it better. Given the fact that they didn't have the power to ban things from normal play, they still managed to create a fairly balanced OU meta, with a Conk that maybe was a smidgeon too strong but nothing insane. After that the devs took the reins and fucked everything up by ignoring comp players and deciding themselves despite having zero knowledge of comp. I suggest you go back to the old ways unless you want your playerbase to just be casuals roleplaying as Gym Leaders spamming rain teams in the ladder.

On my opinion if they wish to add new content like a new ladder, a new feature like tournaments player-hosted on Battle Dome, etc, they could do it normally, but when need to add items/abilitys , or do changes like PP changes , they need to consult TC first. If TC agree that will broken PvP, DON'T ADD. 

Ubers not being added was a previous excuse to not throw players effort on trash breeding mons, but they nerf Recovery PP. Did they think that this killed basically Reuniclus? Also, Stall and Balance got destroyeed because on a fight vs a offense mons, they need to be more careful when spending recovery move PP, and also make player use more Regenerator/Poison Heal making matchs more longer.  

[caioxlive13]

Well, full HA list, let's discuss possbilitys for next month meta:

---<HA released>---

Excadrill - Mold Breaker - Kept OU but amazing, certainly will be used as a rocks setter because rotom will dislike to switch into one now.

Grumpig - Gluttony - Even to Untiered non-official meta is irrelevent, and is still irrelevant.

Tauros - Sheer Force - Even to Untiered non-official meta is irrelevent, and is still irrelevant.

Gyarados - Moxie - This is a big upgrade to him, kill = boost is great. Downside is you can't force physical attackers out.

Ampharos - Plus - Even to Untiered non-official meta is irrelevent, and is still irrelevant.

Stoutland - Scrappy - Even to Untiered non-official meta is irrelevent, and is still irrelevant.

Purugly - Defiant - Even to Untiered non-official meta is irrelevent, and is still irrelevant.

Lopunny - Limber - Even to Untiered non-official meta is irrelevent, and is still irrelevant.

Braviary - Defiant - Don't like to switch into rotom, but can enter on other defoggers and get free boosts, will have a niche on NU with that. Can be useful while SV movepool update don't happen and we don't get body slam to use on Brav Sheer Force.

Steelix - Sheer Force - Will not use its HA at all, sturdy outclass it.

Zebstrika - Sap Sipper  - Even to Untiered non-official meta is irrelevent, and is still irrelevant.

Conclusion: at maximum Brav can move from UT to NU to teambuild assist purposes(Now become a bit more relevant), but at the moment no mon with HA need to move from tier they're now.

---<New mons>---
Shaymin - UU at most, Sky form didn't get implement because devs think that would be overpowered, but if Togekiss was acceptable all those years with Parahax, why Shaymin will not?(Can someone explain to me?)

---<Walls with recovery options close to cutoff, their position can be revaluated>---
Empoleon - Down to UU, struggle to find space on OU teams, now with less roost PP it will be hard to wall somethings that Empoleon would wall before.
Porygon2 - recover with less PP, can be PP stalled and after that killed. Testworthy on UU but most likely remain banned
Slowbro - NU, or NUBL. Same issue than Empoleon on OU. Struggle to find space on UU teams, now with less Slack Off PP it will be hard to wall somethings that slowbro previously wall. However, NU lost their main wallbreak that are Feralligator, while Slowbro are out, and without excellent wallbreaks i think it can be a bit OP.  

Edited January 25, 2023 by caioxlive13

[Ziiiiio]

于2023/1/24 PM8点18分，pachima 说：

Funny. MMO balancing has always buffed a more defensive playstyle to the point MMO meta is by far the stalliest of most gen5 metas out there.

 

Funnier. Most were so hyped to see stall further buffed with hazards slapped on most walls, because apparently MMO isn't stally enough for those people.

 

But God forbid them to actually balance the game and for the first time in ages giving a buff to offense, when compared to official counterparts.

 

Besides, some people completely forget the fact Pokemon is a game and are willing to spend 1 hour of their life per match, mindlessly clicking recovery buttons, just because they are either unable to think, or simply refuse to. This, while not being necessarily a bad thing, is not fun, and happens WAY too often, the the point most tournaments are dragged to hell because of a few matches that delay the whole thing. Most people don't have 5-6 hours to invest straight in each tournament, and honestly, neither should anyone. Again, I am not saying it shouldn't happen at all. Just that it happens way too often.

 

Does this completely kill defensive styles? I don't know. I can't know, and neither can anyone. We have never tested similar changes, and any comparison between this and other metagames outside this game are irrelevant. And while it may indeed unbalance this game and turn into an issue, it's a risk at least I would be willing to take. If it works, we may be able to turn tournament into a much more enjoyable experience. If it doesn't, then they'll find a way to mitigate it somehow if deemed necessary.

 

 

MMO is not that stall as you think, we dont get legendaries but we have alot of combos like Nasty plot+ focus blast also like cc scizor, mienshao and conkeldorr. Also like teleport+choice attackers can be made in here as well.

 

And the situation of 1h match, nobody want spend 1h on ladder or any other match, but if you cant hold this, you can turn to play HO team, 30mins is longest time you gonna spend, either you break this fxxking walls or after 30mins most of your team dead by spikes and toxics, just simple. The main reason for extending the race to one hour is player with a bulky balance againt a stall team.

 

Now the mean reason make these OU matches to 1h is the regenerator things like AV mienshao and amoongus, obviously just change it from 33% to 25% or something on these regenerator stuff, what's the point of make healing move pp into 8? Get the fking SD garchomp and draco hydregon back if faster game is needed.

 

And we can see what is already happend, those slow boosting pokemons such as Glisor Reuniclus also togekiss they can't sweep the game even you had clean most of it's checks just because 8pp healing, Sigilyph as well even now Umbreon can check it by only use foulplay and Clef is not a issue at all now. Those are effects on slow boosting but that's not the end. 8 pp makes 1 wall can't check more than 1 attacker, now it's possible to let life orb Infernape keep using Flamethrower to a Mandibuzz just switch in, you either kill the infernape by BB or your roost getting empty, then Dnight gonna sweep the game because of 8pp changes. This situation never happend before. 

 

Regenerator let game turing to a boring situation, work on regenerator, simple. not the brainless following to Gen9. Also we don't even had grassy terrain to balance the 8 pp change.

 

 

[LifeStyleNORE]

12 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

Shaymin - UU at most, Sky form didn't get implement because devs think that would be overpowered, but if Togekiss was acceptable all those years with Parahax, why Shaymin will not?(Can someone explain to me?)  

Probably has to do with the fact that it's Uber in every Smogon gen

[Huargensy]

12 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

---<New mons>---
Shaymin - UU at most, Sky form didn't get implement because devs think that would be overpowered, but if Togekiss was acceptable all those years with Parahax, why Shaymin will not?(Can someone explain to me?)
 

Oh, you have no idea how troublesome that hedgehog is when he wants to fly.

 

[caioxlive13]

3 hours ago, Ziiiiio said:

MMO is not that stall as you think, we dont get legendaries but we have alot of combos like Nasty plot+ focus blast also like cc scizor, mienshao and conkeldorr. Also like teleport+choice attackers can be made in here as well.

 

And the situation of 1h match, nobody want spend 1h on ladder or any other match, but if you cant hold this, you can turn to play HO team, 30mins is longest time you gonna spend, either you break this fxxking walls or after 30mins most of your team dead by spikes and toxics, just simple. The main reason for extending the race to one hour is player with a bulky balance againt a stall team.

 

Now the mean reason make these OU matches to 1h is the regenerator things like AV mienshao and amoongus, obviously just change it from 33% to 25% or something on these regenerator stuff, what's the point of make healing move pp into 8? Get the fking SD garchomp and draco hydregon back if faster game is needed.

 

And we can see what is already happend, those slow boosting pokemons such as Glisor Reuniclus also togekiss they can't sweep the game even you had clean most of it's checks just because 8pp healing, Sigilyph as well even now Umbreon can check it by only use foulplay and Clef is not a issue at all now. Those are effects on slow boosting but that's not the end. 8 pp makes 1 wall can't check more than 1 attacker, now it's possible to let life orb Infernape keep using Flamethrower to a Mandibuzz just switch in, you either kill the infernape by BB or your roost getting empty, then Dnight gonna sweep the game because of 8pp changes. This situation never happend before. 

 

Regenerator let game turing to a boring situation, work on regenerator, simple. not the brainless following to Gen9. Also we don't even had grassy terrain to balance the 8 pp change.

Okay, comment about some topics.
 

Quote

MMO is not that stall as you think, we dont get legendaries but we have alot of combos like Nasty plot+ focus blast also like cc scizor, mienshao and conkeldorr. Also like teleport+choice attackers can be made in here as well.

Majority of those are currently on OU. Lower tiers, even versus a supposed balanced you hit the 1h limit.

Quote

And the situation of 1h match, nobody want spend 1h on ladder or any other match, but if you cant hold this, you can turn to play HO team, 30mins is longest time you gonna spend, either you break this fxxking walls or after 30mins most of your team dead by spikes and toxics, just simple. The main reason for extending the race to one hour is player with a bulky balance againt a stall team.

30 minutes? I play with a HO and i can say tha 20 minutes or i got swepted or i sweep, even vs stall teams. The question to say if a match will last longer isn't the type of team, and yes how much bulky defensive the team have. Bulky offenses with one Crit-me-not sweeper and Slowbro future sight + tp can hold game a lot.

Quote

Now the mean reason make these OU matches to 1h is the regenerator things like AV mienshao and amoongus, obviously just change it from 33% to 25% or something on these regenerator stuff, what's the point of make healing move pp into 8? Get the fking SD garchomp and draco hydregon back if faster game is needed.

Add a regen clasule would be better in this case, we don't need to hurt viability of mons since outside of regen cores they're viable and healty. Amoongus for example, comes on december, and come in a good time since 2 months before we're praying for something to help vs serperior. Mien before HA could stall for 1h? Yes. but it would be very, VERY hard. Slowbro when avaliable will have legit use on Bulky Offense teams.

Quote

And we can see what is already happend, those slow boosting pokemons such as Glisor Reuniclus also togekiss they can't sweep the game even you had clean most of it's checks just because 8pp healing, Sigilyph as well even now Umbreon can check it by only use foulplay and Clef is not a issue at all now. Those are effects on slow boosting but that's not the end. 8 pp makes 1 wall can't check more than 1 attacker, now it's possible to let life orb Infernape keep using Flamethrower to a Mandibuzz just switch in, you either kill the infernape by BB or your roost getting empty, then Dnight gonna sweep the game because of 8pp changes. This situation never happend before. 

 

Regenerator let game turing to a boring situation, work on regenerator, simple. not the brainless following to Gen9. Also we don't even had grassy terrain to balance the 8 pp change.

True. Like levitate gengar is pointless, because it's overpowered on Gen 6 due to mega gengar. If they want to do those changes, ask to Tier Council first. If wouldn't broke the game, then add.
 

Edited January 25, 2023 by caioxlive13

[Munya]

Usage from this month will be disregarded given the recent changes and additions made to the game.  Shaymin will be left OU for now and everything else that gained its HA will remain in the tiers they were in.

[caioxlive13]

32 minutes ago, Munya said:

Usage from this month will be disregarded given the recent changes and additions made to the game.  Shaymin will be left OU for now and everything else that gained its HA will remain in the tiers they were in.

we will not have movements at all or will be like October to November 2022(when with usage from tournaments and some mons after HA releasing, Tier council voted possible changes)?

Edited January 26, 2023 by caioxlive13

[Munya]

unless someone in TC wants to initiate a conversation on something, none at all

[gbwead]

@Munya

• If you guys think the recents changes means you can pretend the 1h time limit is no longer a problem, you are sorely mistaken.
• What's the status of changing tiering cut-off points and desynchronisation? 

Do something. The solutions are easy and simple. You supposedly have been discussing these issues for months and yet nothing have been done. If the staff team overseeing the competitive scene is overwhelmed, please get more people involved because this is absolutely shameful. Everytime I ask, you ignore me, make up empty promises or come up with excuses. 

 

If YOU (not TC, I mean really YOU representing the staff team) don't see any of these things as problems based on your vast PVP knowledge, just say that you don't, so we can move on from this phony game of me asking and you dodging the questions.

Edited January 26, 2023 by gbwead

[lallo17]

On 1/24/2023 at 6:02 PM, suigin said:

Difference is stall was complete dogshit even with those perceived buffs and our meta was still pretty damn offensive. I'd tell you to try less Taunt Conkeldurrs and try some actual stallbreakers but there's no point in the current state of the meta.

Team versatility is good, it's fun and allows for creative and diverse builds, gen 5 in its rawest state was considered dogshit because it was nothing but weather spam much like what we are gonna have on greater quantities.

 

This is the thing that pisses me off the most. For years we were lied to with stuff like "Oh we can't have Ubers because we want as many options as possible to be playable and banning stuff would throw player effort down the drain" Then they pull this shit rendering many more walls, wallbreakers and stallbreakers completely pointless, all time money and effort gone down the drain. 

 

Only because "Oh we wanna stay close to the main games" by also doing idiotic changes like Cursed Body Gengar (Whose change makes sense in a meta where it can turn into Mega Gengar and there's a buffed Ghost and Poison type). OK then add Fairy, Draco Hydrei and 120 BP Outrage then, you clearly didn't care about wasting player effort to begin with so why even ignore this at this point? Hell I'm actually unironically proposing this because Clef wouldn't be broken anymore with this PP change. Fuck it, bring back OG Shadow Tag and give Dugtrio Swords Dance, it gets it now, buff Knock Off and Dark/Ghost as well, you wanna get as close to the main games as possible after all and banning Conk is always an option without caring about player effort.

Add legendaries too, we don't care about dungeons, "Broken in PVP means it's broken in PVE" is a complete lie you convinced yourselves of and continue to tell yourselves despite adding fanfic boss fights with hard capped damage rolls so they don't get oneshotted and moves/abilities more effects than a Yu Gi Oh card.

 

Wanting to stay close to the main games is also something that only affects PVP. The moment a fun, effective method of making money using stuff like Baton Pass or Shedinja are found they'll fanfic that shit to oblivion, they'll fuck with prices because It's an mmo, muh economy, we can't have players grinding the same place constantly, we need them to slowly grind something else instead of having FUN.

I can't wait for Moody to be abused in PVE stuff like league runs to see how people like Rache or Squirtle claw their faces off trying to find a solution to a problem everyone told them NOT to implement while "keeping it close to the original games :)".

 

Before Platinum was implemented the TC had more agency in things. You had a group of fairly knowledgable or good players who cared about your game and had the full intention to make it better. Given the fact that they didn't have the power to ban things from normal play, they still managed to create a fairly balanced OU meta, with a Conk that maybe was a smidgeon too strong but nothing insane. After that the devs took the reins and fucked everything up by ignoring comp players and deciding themselves despite having zero knowledge of comp. I suggest you go back to the old ways unless you want your playerbase to just be casuals roleplaying as Gym Leaders spamming rain teams in the ladder.

Perfect comment to me.

I hardly have something to add; almost every PokeMMO's problem is summed up in what you just said.

 

They are announcing unpopular changes now because with the promise of Johto people will stick to the game and swollow the bitter pill until they get used to aforementioned changes in the long run.

What I see now is only an incomplete """MMO""" (STILL after 10 years lacking co-op outside battle tower...like...lol wtf), a worse Pokemon experience, where my mons in which I invested time, money and care can be literally turned off at any moment by a "nerf" that does nothing but narrowing down the mons used in both PvP and PvE making the game STALE.

If freaking Nintendo already balanced things for the generations we are playing with in 'MMO why should they put their dirty hands on that to make things "better"?

Why every time I log in and see an update I can fell chill in my bones? How long until the next nerf à la Gengar? Why the only strategy that absolutely needs to exist is beatdown? Why are they losing time and resources in sh*tty events and uncathcable mega ultra giantormus red blinking eyes shinies and fanfict pumpkins when there's sooo much to do in terms of gameplay, stability, roleplay, translation etc?

I'm feeling always more detached from PokeMMO and that's a shame. They know people like me won't quit because of time spent (and time spent waiting for Johto) but in the moment this game will be pokemon no more, I tell you I'm saying goodbye without a tear.

[razimove]

5 hours ago, lallo17 said:

They are announcing unpopular changes now because with the promise of Johto people will stick to the game and swollow the bitter pill until they get used to aforementioned changes in the long run.

uh no, this is 100% irrelevant, especially for competitive since it literally adds nothing.

 

5 hours ago, lallo17 said:

What I see now is only an incomplete """MMO""" (STILL after 10 years lacking co-op outside battle tower...like...lol wtf), a worse Pokemon experience, where my mons in which I invested time, money and care can be literally turned off at any moment by a "nerf" that does nothing but narrowing down the mons used in both PvP and PvE making the game STALE.

You're free to leave/take a break, and this also dodges the important stuff discussed here.

 

5 hours ago, lallo17 said:

If freaking Nintendo already balanced things for the generations we are playing with in 'MMO why should they put their dirty hands on that to make things "better"?

We never had a 100% loyal metagame vs handhelds, no legendaries, access to abilities, stats, movepools and items we shouldn't be allowed to, so not really relevant either, even in gen3 we had access to band items after a while.


The problem here is that it doens't seem they placed any thought behind this nerf (pls don't say it ruined pve when you literally complete all pve with a starmie and a pinsir/scyther and is not relevant the least), this nerf didn't change 1 hour matches, but served as a nerf to a lot of playstyles, it literally didn't add anything good, but removed a lot as a whole, and I say this as a very offensive player, you'll rarely if ever see me run stall. Effectively speaking this hurts more balance and bulky offense than stall as a whole, especially after the introduction of a new regen mon, aswell as some HA like toxic heal gliscor. We don't even have access to heavy duty boots or something to remove/lessen the burden on some walls etc, that now struggle pretty hard with limited healing pp, nothing, straight nerf.

[DoubleJ]

MMO has attempted to emulate the vanilla canon from Gen to Gen, and so this isn't anything new. 

 

Adjusting cut-offs is not something we as a TC have given much consideration to. The yo-yo effect has not been significant of late and the constant metashifts with new HA's every couple months have kept the game lively. 

 

While the PP nerf was a huge change, I do consider folks take the approach of gbwead and watch and wait. I anticipate this being good overall. 

 

Regen is something we're watching closely and a lot of discussion has taken place about time limits without a sound conclusion as of yet. The pp nerf does strengthen the need for Regen cores but that opens up significant weaknesses as both Amoongus and Mienshao can't wall everything and do need to rely on teammates which have been weakened from a defensive perspective. 

 

And as you can see... Shaymin.

[DoubleJ]

I have a feeling that Excadrill is going to totally reshape OU, and I'm very excited about it. 

[caioxlive13]

9 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

I have a feeling that Excadrill is going to totally reshape OU, and I'm very excited about it. 

252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 234-276 (76.9 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Finally a lead able to scare rotom off, without he have the chance of defog.

[Munya]

Thoughts on Shaymin?  Would it be alright in UU if it comes to that?

[gbwead]

I would like to speak with your manager.