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March 2023 Movement Discussion


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New things were dropped so 4.36% either way until the new season.

 

To OU: 

Nothing

 

To UU from OU:

Venusaur

Empoleon

Shaymin

 

To UU from NU:

Magneton

Druddigon

 

To NU from UU:

Scrafty

Golbat

Sharpedo

Slowbro

 

Why should or shouldn't any of the things on this list move?  This is the place to say.  Stay on topic.

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I didn't realise it was already three months until the next usage movements but I suppose I'll post my initial thoughts:

 

To UU from OU:

Venusaur

Despite Torkoal not being in UU I'm skeptical about this mon coming back since it proved very threatening in the tier before especially with growth and you can use Whimsicott/Sableye prankster to set up sun and then Memento to gather momentum (e.g. Whimsicott).

 

You could argue that setting up prankster may be difficult when you have Krookodile and Xatu(?) but once set up could be nasty - again this is difficult to confirm without testing. 

 

We do have some tools to deal with this (e.g. Empoleon dropping now) but curious whether TC would like to suspect test during the first month?

 

Empoleon

People were initially concerned about this being defensive uber when it had access to roost but I think the PP recovery nerf may have taken a hit on this mon but still a very solid mon in the tier, I think this should be fine. 

 

Shaymin

No issues here, this will likely be a good Roserade replacement to deal with Crawdaunt/Toxicroaks being spammed in the tier because of Crawdaunt and we have Crobat, Rotom-H and several steel types which in theory should be able to handle this okay. 

 

To UU from NU:

Magneton

No issues here.

 

Druddigon

No issues here.

 

To NU from UU:

Scrafty

What are TC's views on this Pokemon? We have Golbat meaning Scrafty will likely need to set up twice to successfully threaten this mon after rocks (will need to provide relevant calcs) but I can't think of many Pokemon which would be able to handle this mon (e.g. immune to prankster).

 

The typical moveset would be - Crunch, Zen Headbutt, Drain Punch which is amazing coverage for the tier. The main way I can think of around this is we have quite a few priority mons (e.g. Gurdurr, Azumarill, Hitmonchan, Blaziken) alongside Ninjask which already has a x4 weakness to rocks.

 

Despite potential answers, is this too strong for the tier when we have banned Pokemon like Venomoth? This is probably my biggest concern and I would personally like this to be discussed the most.

 

Golbat

No issues here, was a solid mon in the tier and will be a core part of many teambuilds again (e.g. Piloswine/Steelix, Slowbro, Golbat)

 

Sharpedo

Very similar concerns to Scrafty, but with access to a special and mixed set. Curious as to whether TC thinks this should be quick banned or suspect tested?

 

Slowbro

No issues here.

 

I feel out of all the tiers, UU will be the one most affected and screwed again. NU could also face some issues, depending on what TC decides about Sharpedo and Scrafty.

Edited by Imperial
Posting my initial thoughts, will need to take a thorough look later to update on any important points I missed.
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First of all. I got no issues with the drops from OU. I'm a little bit scared of scrafty for NU, but the drop of Golbat should help with handling it.

Pory-Z got banned when Empoleon moved up to OU. Empoleon moves down with this patch.
Pory 2 is not played at Ou and new ways to break it got added with HAs.
 

Also Staraptor and Dugtrio are currently banned from UU (both understandable, but imo we also got ways to handle them in UU)

 

Can we get an update on the ban status? I feel like this bans have to be reconsidered to unban since we got a lot of changes in the past months.

 

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Actual TC chat for NU:
 

- Hum, NU is actually nice to play right now. Maybe a little too nice. 

- Agreed. What should we do?

- Destroy it.

- Cool. how?

- Let's see. Sharpedo and Scraty surely won't be an issue. 

- Great. Anything else?

- Eh. Golbat was only top 3 mons last time it was in the tier. It won't change much.

- Perfect. Are we done?

- Nah. Slowbro was also a predominant pokemon in that tier. No reason not to add it.

- So are we adding 2 pokemon that can potentiallly shape the meta around them as well as adding 2 potentially uber-offensive pokemons. Superb!!!

- Kudos!!

- Amazing.

- 10/10

- But. What if, in the absolute minimal chance, the tier breaks?. How do we know what is creating unwanted ripples, since we are just adding 4 dominant Pokemon at once?

- ??

- What do you mean tier breaks?

- Nah, Won't happen.

-True.

-Also, if it does. It's not an issue at all. Tier was dead for years. It won't hurt them if its dead for a few more months.

-Agreed. Besides, Golbat might actually rise again because of Shaymin in UU.

-Haha yeah. See? No need to worry. We thought of everything.

-And then once shaymin can potentially rise again, Golbat drops again.

- Yeah, but by then its 2025. It's fine.

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Just now, pachima said:

Actual TC chat for NU:
 

- Hum, NU is actually nice to play right now. Maybe a little too nice. 

- Agreed. What should we do?

- Destroy it.

- Cool. how?

- Let's see. Sharpedo and Scraty surely won't be an issue. 

- Great. Anything else?

- Eh. Golbat was only top 3 mons last time it was in the tier. It won't change much.

- Perfect. Are we done?

- Nah. Slowbro was also a predominant pokemon in that tier. No reason not to add it.

- So are we adding 2 pokemon that can potentiallly shape the meta around them as well as adding 2 potentially uber-offensive pokemons. Superb!!!

- Kudos!!

- Amazing.

- 10/10

- But. What if, in the absolute minimal chance, the tier breaks?. How do we know what is creating unwanted ripples, since we are just adding 4 dominant Pokemon at once?

- ??

- What do you mean tier breaks?

- Nah, Won't happen.

-True.

-Also, if it does. It's not an issue at all. Tier was dead for years. It won't hurt them if its dead for a few more months.

-Agreed. Besides, Golbat might actually rise again because of Shaymin in UU.

-Haha yeah. See? No need to worry. We thought of everything.

-And then once shaymin can potentially rise again, Golbat drops again.

- Yeah, but by then its 2025. It's fine.

TC has not said anything yet this is usage based movements bruh... 

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36 minutes ago, Eipott said:

First of all. I got no issues with the drops from OU. I'm a little bit scared of scrafty for NU, but the drop of Golbat should help with handling it.

Pory-Z got banned when Empoleon moved up to OU. Empoleon moves down with this patch.
Pory 2 is not played at Ou and new ways to break it got added with HAs.
 

Also Staraptor and Dugtrio are currently banned from UU (both understandable, but imo we also got ways to handle them in UU)

 

Can we get an update on the ban status? I feel like this bans have to be reconsidered to unban since we got a lot of changes in the past months.

 

Apologies if I misunderstood but Staraptor is way too strong to be unbanned.

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ban scrafty
bring back p2 and pz to UU with empo 
shaymin is fine for UU and would be even more fine with the 2 pory

any way we see dugtrio back into UU ? it's definitly broken in pvp overall but if it's not banned in OU why ban it in UU ?

OU is a clown party atm, amoongus is free everywhere. Amoongus hide the fact we have soo many things way too strong for our metagame : dgnite multiscale, excadrill, also rain is getting a really huuuuuge buff from the recovery nerf and also serp still broken.

Still, something need to be done for OU

if you dont plan to make OU better can we at least have a good UU ?
(caio dont quote me)

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46 minutes ago, AwaXGoku said:

bring back p2 and pz to UU with empo 

 

46 minutes ago, AwaXGoku said:

dugtrio back into UU

I know Gbwead brainwashed you, poor little thing.
But this is literally nonsense. The one argument that according to TC got Dugtrio banned from UU was that it trapped all the answers to PorygonZ which it still does

And here you are asking for both mons to drop 👍 Seems good mate, keep it going

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15 minutes ago, TohnR said:

 

I know Gbwead brainwashed you, poor little thing.
But this is literally nonsense. The one argument that according to TC got Dugtrio banned from UU was that it trapped all the answers to PorygonZ which it still does

And here you are asking for both mons to drop 👍 Seems good mate, keep it going

it's so cute how you always speak so bad on forum and dont ingame but i guess that's what we get with people like you
anyway attacking the people to look cool seems to be the game 

dugtrio can trap the answer to a lot of things in OU and isnt banned 
magnezone can trap the answer to a lot of things ,same with magneton and arent banned 
im really up to discuss seriously 

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45 minutes ago, TohnR said:

I know Gbwead brainwashed you, poor little thing.
But this is literally nonsense. The one argument that according to TC got Dugtrio banned from UU was that it trapped all the answers to PorygonZ which it still does

And here you are asking for both mons to drop 👍 Seems good mate, keep it going

The reason Dugtrio was banned was because it was trapping Roostless Empoleon in the PorygonZ meta. I disagree with the reasoning for that ban since that reasoning could also apply to OU and yet it wasn't banned in OU (Inconsistency #1). Empoleon and PorygonZ were removed from UU in September. This means Dugtrio should have been unbanned in September (Inconsistency #2).

Now, if Empoleon/PZ return to UU, the original reason for the Dugtrio ban would again apply to UU. I still disagree with that reason, but at least the ban reason would again apply. Imo, Inconsistency #1 remains and Inconsistency #2 is gone. Since Inconsistency #2 is gone, I did not ask for Dugtrio to be unbanned this month.

 

I don't know why you have to be a condescending little shit towards Awaxgoku when I have clearly never shared his opinion on UU matters. For over a year, Awax has always been pro PZ in UU even when Empoleon moved up and I have been anti PZ. Just because someone happens to agree with me on one point doesn't make them brainwashed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would like to point out that you are arguing in very bad faith btw. A couple months ago, when I brought up unbanning Dugtrio from OU for the sake of consistency, you justified the ban with the following post:

Quote

@gbweadThere was a discussion thread for Dugtrio's ban from UU, you can refer to that to know why it was banned. There was another one for its ban from NU ...
At least as far as I know there was, and it took a whole year to conclude to a ban, so I'm sure there's plenty of material there for you to read.
If you want it to be banned from all tiers you aren't taking the issue from the right angle, if you are just doing that for no purpose other than tiering consistency then you should look around you and realize this is Pokémmo. Yes a mon doesn't have to be proven banworthy in OU for it to be banned in another tier. 
We have proven it banworthy in NU & UU and from that it was banned, it's all that matters

Now you justify the ban with the following post:

1 hour ago, TohnR said:

But this is literally nonsense. The one argument that according to TC got Dugtrio banned from UU was that it trapped all the answers to PorygonZ which it still does

And here you are asking for both mons to drop 👍 Seems good mate, keep it going

 

A couple of months ago, the ban was no longer justified, but you insisted on keeping the ban regardless because what's done is done, what's proven is proven. Now that the original reason for the ban once again applies, you quickly justified the ban based on that original reason. When the original reason apply, you quote that reason. When the original reason no longer applies, you dodge. That's not how tiering works. 

 

Right now, we should probably reconsider the PZ ban because Empoleon is back with Roost. If we were to use the logic you showed when talking about Dugtrio this would not be an option though because: "we have proven PZ banworthy in UU and from that it was banned, it's all that matters, case closed"

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What you still don't understand is people want a playable tier and don't care about semantics.
You're not gonna convince anyone with your silly war, getting support from your team mates is not gonna change anything to the general opinion about Dugtrio.

 

Dugtrio is problematic in OU ? Get it banned.

In no way dropping it to UU will solve any of the problems it causes in OU, and will create more in UU. That fight is literally scoring against your own goal.

 

"I would like to point out that you are arguing in very bad faith btw" since I literally mentionned AV Spiritomb as an offensive check to PZ that can also trap it, which complements the return of Roost Empoleon. That changes a lot of things from back then when +1 coverage used to 2HKO.

Now if that's not enough to warrant a PZ unban then fine. TC decides that it was just a suggestion. Not gonna fight over it, I don't really care.

 

 

1 hour ago, gbwead said:

I don't know why you have to be a condescending little shit towards Awaxgoku

So I said he's brainwashed and that justifies you saying I'm "a condescending little shit".

Only thing that you know is calling out people for doing the exact thing you're doing H24

 

On that note apologies to Awa if he doesn't realize all of SIÂ people's opinions align on Gb's and noone else's do.
That's my bad shouldn't have unveiled the truth to him.

Edited by TohnR
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