[OU Discussion] Gallade

[Zokuru]

On the Gallade topic, the pokemon forces you to run such bullshit and even like that it's still terrifying, and no new ability cant really change that without being even more broken and killing the tier even more.

[Ajbramberg]

4 minutes ago, Zokuru said:

 

 

On the Gallade topic, the pokemon forces you to run such bullshit and even like that it's still terrifying, and no new ability cant really change that without being even more broken and killing the tier even more.

Thats so silly, have you not heard of hazards? Or sashs? Or ghost types? Or swtch ins or priority moves or trick room or trick or rocky helmet or choice scarfed mons or rain teams or shedninja or sableye or prankster or wisps or toxic or the move counter? Or just running your own gallade or dragon tail or whirlwind theres too many counters to even list. Thats the point of tiers and having a meta pokes are moved around to counter eachother. 

[Bertolfoso]

4 hours ago, KaynineXL said:

However, I'm sure the tier council members are capable of sifting through comments and picking out which arguments are useful and which are not. 

 

 

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Anyways for my own opinion, I agree that it is too early for this. There has been no time to adapt and see if the pokemon is actually overpowered (in my opinion it isnt).

 

Also for this and future threads I think it would be cool if a poll was added, not to be taken too seriously, but I think it would be still be interesting.

 

[Zokuru]

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Really getting tired with low skill players crying for bans whenever a poke gets a slight buff.

Show evidence of your skill, because lots of people talking here have won tournament and made good results on ladder, saying they are low skill without having any proof of your own is ridiculous.

 

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Nobody calling for eviolite bans or quiver/dragon dance nerfs. Sharp gallade is middling at best and is barely good enough for ou.

Eviolite and boosting moves have nothing to do with the current topic, On Sharpness Gallade being " middling ", he's actually the number 4 most used pokemon in tournament right now and it has more than 53% winrate. 

 

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When it had steadfast you could achieve the same effects with tailwind and a choice band so its barely even a buff.

That needs turn to setup, for a limited amount of turn, needs to use pokemons to support that in the team and you still need to lock your item slot of that, how's that not a buff ?
Especially since Tailwind has always been very bad.

 

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Not to mention pretty much any poke can 1hko it with a crit or place a well timed wisp to neuter it completely. Gallades usage will shoot up for a little while because  its something new and checks and counters will come organically.

Yeah, obviously you are so good that you can crit on command and your opponent is gonna send Gallade on your Wips for free. People have already started to search counters to Gallade, and spoiler, they are set dependant, which means if you guess the set wrong or dont have multiple Gallade answer in your team you are asking for problems.

 

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Advocating for a ban is going to set a precedent thats gonna turn pvp into a total stallfest where every good abillity is nerfed and everybody uses the same team, its already going that way.

Looks like you're the one having skill issues here, nobody has trouble playing something that's not stall. Stall is also a style that's better vs low skill players than high skill ones, speaks a lot.

 

 

Nobody answer you seriously because you are ridiculous and havent proven anything in this game, you are just bothering people scouting noob nonsense, please just let people having an idea of what they are talking handle the matter.

[Zokuru]

13 minutes ago, Ajbramberg said:

Thats so silly, have you not heard of hazards? Or sashs? Or ghost types? Or swtch ins or priority moves or trick room or trick or rocky helmet or choice scarfed mons or rain teams or shedninja or sableye or prankster or wisps or toxic or the move counter? Or just running your own gallade or dragon tail or whirlwind theres too many counters to even list. Thats the point of tiers and having a meta pokes are moved around to counter eachother. 

Yeah I've heard of hazards, it takes turn to setup and it doesnt even really stop Gallade.
Yeah I've heard of sash, i've you heard of hazards? 

Psycho Cut / Night Slash completely destroy most ghosts.

Most teams don't run Trick Room, and outside of trick room Gallade might be able to clean up in a lot of situations.

Psycho Cut bypasses Rocky Helmet, and Gallade can absolutely switch out of scarfed mons, and come back later for another kill.

Rain teams have a decent MU against Gallade that's right, but they lack the good switch in, so on turn 1 Pelliper can be heavily damaged which is v bad for the rain team, or be a threat late game, which is already very good for such a Pokemon versus a rain team.

Shedinja dies to night slash, 2 if you use sash and have you heard of hazards ? Also it's very specific.

Sableye is the only decent counter, and it's very specific and not even good in OU, it's very easy to help Gallade to beat Sableye using Dark Type Pursuit.

Your own Gallade is a speedtie that's not an answer, I dont get how dragon tail or ww beats Gallade, you just die before you can use that.

[Ajbramberg]

11 minutes ago, Zokuru said:

Yeah I've heard of hazards, it takes turn to setup and it doesnt even really stop Gallade.
Yeah I've heard of sash, i've you heard of hazards? 

Psycho Cut / Night Slash completely destroy most ghosts.

Most teams don't run Trick Room, and outside of trick room Gallade might be able to clean up in a lot of situations.

Psycho Cut bypasses Rocky Helmet, and Gallade can absolutely switch out of scarfed mons, and come back later for another kill.

Rain teams have a decent MU against Gallade that's right, but they lack the good switch in, so on turn 1 Pelliper can be heavily damaged which is v bad for the rain team, or be a threat late game, which is already very good for such a Pokemon versus a rain team.

Shedinja dies to night slash, 2 if you use sash and have you heard of hazards ? Also it's very specific.

Sableye is the only decent counter, and it's very specific and not even good in OU, it's very easy to help Gallade to beat Sableye using Dark Type Pursuit.

Your own Gallade is a speedtie that's not an answer, I dont get how dragon tail or ww beats Gallade, you just die before you can use that.

Bro gallade is choice restricted you haveto be good at predicting peliper has u turn and can tank all of galladed stabs and ohko with hurricane and  its just the setter every single swift swimmer can ohko if ivd and itemd properly. If you set up rocks and dragon tail him out he will have a very hard time switching back if he is even able to without dying. Stop acting like having to set up is some crazy thing that nobody is prepared for almost every match ive ever played has had rocks or spikes or tox spikes or quiver dancers. If you quiver once on volc gallade cannot switch in same goes with a dragon dance. 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Ajbramberg

[ArtOfKilling]

6 minutes ago, Ajbramberg said:

I listed like 20 counters but did you reply to them?

Are you exaggerating or did you actually list 20 answers to Gallade? If so, please quote them I would like to learn.

[Ajbramberg]

2 minutes ago, ArtOfKilling said:

Are you exaggerating or did you actually list 20 answers to Gallade? If so, please quote them I would like to learn.

Sableye, peliper, focus sash excadrill any poke with willowisp, 2 layers of spikes, toxic spikes, banded scizor bullet punch or steel gem bullet punch, shadow sneak used in combination with spikes or rocks,  swift swim kabutops banded, ss kingdra ss omayster ss siesmatoad, technician hitmontop, choice banded sucker punch users, the abbility mummy, reactive gas wheezing, any sturdy mon with a high atk stat, shedninjaa if you cand force the choice lock, shit you could run a zoroark disguised as a psychic weak mon  but thats probably not viable tbh. Intimidate mons dragonite, volcrona with quiver theres a lot more but im not gonna type for an hour 

[Scootter]

10 minutes ago, Ajbramberg said:

Bro gallade is choice restricted you haveto be good at predicting peliper has u turn and can tank all of galladed stabs and ohko with hurricane and  its just the setter every single swift swimmer can ohko if ivd and itemd properly. If you set up rocks and dragon tail him out he will have a very hard time switching back if he is even able to without dying. Stop acting like having to set up is some crazy thing that nobody is prepared for almost every match ive ever played has had rocks or spikes or tox spikes or quiver dancers. If you quiver once on volc gallade cannot switch in same goes with a dragon dance. 

1. pelipper doesnt ohko with hurricane unless its invested in spatk, which would be surprising because rain needs pelipper to have longevity

8 SpA Pelipper Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 108-128 (75.5 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - oh and gallade has a 98% chance to 2hko peli. 

252 Atk Life Orb Sharpness Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 82-97 (49.3 - 58.4%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO

2. you can switch gallade out so it doesnt die to kingdra in rain, switching is pretty basic in PvP

3. +1 volc doesnt even kill gallade and dies in return. +1 252 SpA Volcarona Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 105-124 (73.4 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. 

252 Atk Life Orb Sharpness Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 161-191 (100.6 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO. And you can't even get a flame body proc when using psycho cut. So, there go a few of your "counters" that you think exist. 

[Ajbramberg]

4 minutes ago, Scootter said:

1. pelipper doesnt ohko with hurricane unless its invested in spatk, which would be surprising because rain needs pelipper to have longevity

8 SpA Pelipper Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 108-128 (75.5 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - oh and gallade has a 98% chance to 2hko peli. 

252 Atk Life Orb Sharpness Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 82-97 (49.3 - 58.4%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO

2. you can switch gallade out so it doesnt die to kingdra in rain, switching is pretty basic in PvP

3. +1 volc doesnt even kill gallade and dies in return. +1 252 SpA Volcarona Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 105-124 (73.4 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. 

252 Atk Life Orb Sharpness Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 161-191 (100.6 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO. And you can't even get a flame body proc when using psycho cut. So, there go a few of your "counters" that you think exist. 

So Invest in sp atk?  You dont see that its disengenous to say life orb gallade 2hkos volc when volc outspeeds  and 2hkos it? And your answer for kingdra is switch out lmao? Thn it gets 2 free stab  spec boosted shots on your swap   All these mons easily kill gallade if played properly . So thats maybe maybe one that your kinda right on but only if you dont invest evs properly, you can easily run spec peliper as well which i do often . 

[ArtOfKilling]

14 minutes ago, Ajbramberg said:

focus sash excadrill

so excadrill without focus sash doesnt work right?
 

 

14 minutes ago, Ajbramberg said:

peliper,

you do know the hurricane isn't a gurantee kill, but i know you will say " use pelipper specs" 8 SpA Pelipper Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 108-128 (75.5 - 89.5%)

 

spikes,toxic spikes? how do they kill gallade? what does these have to do with "killing" do you know the difference between killing,revenge killing and pressuring or walling?

when you say bullet punch cb scizor that means it revenge kills gallade because u need to damage gallade before doing so. 252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 120-142 (83.9 - 99.3%)

14 minutes ago, Ajbramberg said:

any sturdy mon with a high atk stat,

"any sturdy mon" + high atk? give examples don't say any and pointblank there's no such a thing as listing 20 examples and without clarifying that

 

14 minutes ago, Ajbramberg said:

but im not gonna type for an hour 

no its better to not type at all. we're talking about defensive answers here, why is garchomp considered the best ou mon yet it can easily get walled? why can volc get walled, kingdra? scizor? we're taking about "walls" every mon in every tier gets walled. except gallade which has 2 walls only due to their typing not defensive stat (Sableye and Spiritomb). that's it

Edited May 4, 2023 by ArtOfKilling

[Scootter]

Just now, Ajbramberg said:

So Invest in sp atk?  You dont see that its disengenous to say life orb gallade 2hkos volc when volc outspeeds  and 2hkos it? And your answer for kingdra is switch out lmao? Thn it gets 2 free stab  spec boosted shots on your swap   All these mons easily kill gallade if played properly . So thats maybe maybe one that your kinda right on but only if you dont invest evs properly, you can easily run spec peliper as well which i do often . 

the point is volc cant switch in. The point is investing in spatk with pelipper decreases its value as a rain setter, which is super important for you SS mons.

You clearly havent looked at the overwhelming number of calcs that show that gallade 2hkos most of the bulkiest mons in the game. 

[Ajbramberg]

2 minutes ago, ArtOfKilling said:

so excadrill without focus sash doesnt work right?
 

 

you do know the hurricane isn't a gurantee kill, but i know you will say " use pelipper specs" 8 SpA Pelipper Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 108-128 (75.5 - 89.5%)

 

spikes,toxic spikes? how do they kill gallade? what does these have to do with "killing" do you know the difference between killing,revenge killing and pressuring or walling?

when you say bullet punch cb scizor that means it revenge kills gallade because u need to damage gallade before doing so. 252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 120-142 (83.9 - 99.3%)

"any sturdy mon" + high atk? give examples don't say any there's no such a thing as listing 20 examples and you don't clarify that

 

no its better to not type at all. we're talking about defensive answers here, why is garchomp considered the best ou mon yet it can easily get walled? why can volc get walled, kingdra? scizor? we're taking about "walls" every mon in every tier gets walled. except gallade which has 2 walls only due to their typing not defensive stat (Sableye and Spiritomb). that's it

You think to linear my guy. Obviously spikes wont insta kill gallade but if you set them up that 87% turns into a ko, its poisoned its a ko, if you uturn into a shadow sneaker its kod . Gallade is a wallbreaker man why are you suprised that it breaks walls? Defense and stalling is not always the answer sometimes you need offense and clever switchs. E

[Scootter]

6 minutes ago, ArtOfKilling said:

except gallade which has 2 walls only due to their typing not defensive stat (Sableye and Spiritomb). that's it

Agree with ur points here. And "walls" lol...

252 Atk Life Orb Sharpness Gallade Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Spiritomb: 73-87 (46.4 - 55.4%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Sharpness Gallade Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 84-100 (53.5 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

[Ajbramberg]

3 minutes ago, Scootter said:

the point is volc cant switch in. The point is investing in spatk with pelipper decreases its value as a rain setter, which is super important for you SS mons.

You clearly havent looked at the overwhelming number of calcs that show that gallade 2hkos most of the bulkiest mons in the game. 

It doesnt need to switch in man, maybe gallade kills one of your mons thats not game over if its easily revenged. And investing sp atk increases its value because it can now kill gallade, either way the slow u turn is gonna hurt bad and if youve set up your hazards well and switch into a prio or swiftbswimmer hes dead

[Ajbramberg]

14 minutes ago, ArtOfKilling said:

 

 

"spikes,toxic spikes? how do they kill gallade? what does these have to do with "killing" 

"when you say bullet punch cb scizor that means it revenge kills gallade because u need to damage gallade before doing so. 252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 120-142 (83.9"

Bro can you you try and use your brain just a little? Youve answered your own questions. 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Ajbramberg

[ArtOfKilling]

6 minutes ago, Ajbramberg said:

Gallade is a wallbreaker man why are you suprised that it breaks walls

So is mixed Dragonite and Mixed Infernape tho? Jellicent,Slowbro, wall infernape. Mixed Dragonite gets walled by porygon2 and av users. Or do I have to "cleverly" switch in my offensive win cons to wall it for you?

[ArtOfKilling]

3 minutes ago, Ajbramberg said:

Bro can you you try and use your brain just a little? Youve answered your own questions. 

1v1 Scenario

unmaxed hp scizor cb vs gallade life orb adamant both are full hp, who wins?

 

I'm done replying to you. you're too naive to be discussed with. Blindly defending Gallade gives me indicators that you have never won before or without it.

[Ajbramberg]

4 minutes ago, ArtOfKilling said:

do I have to "cleverly" switch in my offensive win cons to wall it for you?

Yes gallade has a large pool but is either very slow or choice locked, its very easy to switch into an immune  or resistant poke and use him being forced to switch as an opportunity to set up hazards or dance. Honestly i use my gallade to do trainer runs and it doesnt even ohko certain level 50 pokes with mated atk at level 100 so your just cracked if you think it has no defensive counters. Mummy takes away its abillity and reactive gas both of which are very common aswell. 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Ajbramberg

[Imperial]

Just now, ArtOfKilling said:

1v1 Scenario

unmaxed hp scizor cb vs gallade life orb adamant both are full hp, who wins?

 

I'm done replying to you. you're too naive to be discussed with. Blindly defending Gallade gives me indicators that you have never won before or without it.

Bro he's clearly trolling, I realised his account joined less than 24 hours ago, has a Gallade banner (coincidence?) and talks like a wanna-be gangster. But I think he has a point, we can always counter Gallade by running this team:

 

Trick Room offensive Reuniclus with life orb

Max defensive HP Dragonite with rocky helmet

Max defensive Garchomp with endure

Suicide lead Skarmory to stack those hazards

Specs Pelipper with Hurricane

Scarf Spiritomb

[Scootter]

2 minutes ago, Imperial said:

 

Max defensive HP Dragonite with rocky helmet

Max defensive Garchomp with endure

 

hey dont forget dragon tail on both dnite and chomp btw, super important to countering gallade lol

[Scootter]

4 minutes ago, Ajbramberg said:

Yes gallade has a large pool but is either very slow or choice locked, its very easy to switch into an immune  or resistant poke and use him being forced to switch as an opportunity to set up hazards or dance. Honestly i use my gallade to do trainer runs and it doesnt even ohko certain level 50 pokes with mated atk at level 100 so your just cracked if you think it has no defensive counters. Mummy takes away its abillity and reactive gas both of which are very common aswell. 

uh, night slash has a good chance of 2hkoing cofa (1st slash w mummy and second without)

oh and weezing gets 2hkod by psycho cut regardless of reactive gas. 

I recommend you check out https://calc.pokemonshowdown.com/ before coming up with "counters"

[Ajbramberg]

5 minutes ago, Scootter said:

uh, night slash has a good chance of 2hkoing cofa (1st slash w mummy and second without)

oh and weezing gets 2hkod by psycho cut regardless of reactive gas. 

I recommend you check out https://calc.pokemonshowdown.com/ before coming up with "counters"

No it doesnt, i dont need to run calcs i play pvp. After mummy it barely does anything and then pain split is guaranteed , in a real match nobodys gonna let you hack aprt their mon when you are choice locked theyll just swap out and kill u or force you onto the defensive running numbers the way you do makes no sense bc it just assumes your opponents is sitting there doing nothing  

Edited May 4, 2023 by Ajbramberg

[Scootter]

1 minute ago, Ajbramberg said:

No it doesnt, i dont need to run calcs i play pvp. After mummy it barely does anything and then pain split is guaranteed , in a real match nobodys gonna let you hack aprt their mon when you are choice locked theyll just swap out and kill u or force you onto the defensive running numbers the way you do makes no sense bc it just assumes your opponents is sitting there doing nothing  

with sharpness

252 Atk Life Orb Sharpness Gallade Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 86-101 (52.1 - 61.2%)

without 

252 Atk Life Orb Gallade Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 57-70 (34.5 - 42.4%)

Minimum of 86.6% and a max of 103.6%, which is an OHKO. one round of rocks chip basically guarantees the kill. Stop being naive 

[Ajbramberg]

2 minutes ago, Scootter said:

with sharpness

252 Atk Life Orb Sharpness Gallade Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 86-101 (52.1 - 61.2%)

without 

252 Atk Life Orb Gallade Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 57-70 (34.5 - 42.4%)

Minimum of 86.6% and a max of 103.6%, which is an OHKO. one round of rocks chip basically guarantees the kill. Stop being naive 

 Still assuming  no painsplits or wisp which will happen every time. This is why i say you have a skill issue burned mummy gallade is not gonna 2hko anything but you dont think about those things because you lack battle iq. Ive run gallade v cof about 100 times since the buff and it always goes for a wisp and then painsplits same with wheezing