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[OU Discussion] Gallade


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I myself am a Gallade user as of now, am not an expert so my opinions can totally be wrong but as far as I have noticed, there r 2 types of Gallade users:-

1. Scarf Gallade with Night Slash and Leaf Blade with SacredSword+PsychoCut

2. Life orb Gallade with Swords dance in place of either of the 2 coverage acc to team req

(3. I have tried using Razor claw on it sometimes and the 25% crit chance just destroys if the opponent doesn't have something like Skarm Or something to completely block us and even then 1 crit can destroy walls too) 

And all the 3 types have obvious weaknesses

1 has the easily predicted swtiches

2 has the risk of being Outspeeded by something and getting destroyed in 1 physically damaging move

3 has the risk of not landing a crit(25%≠100%) or being outsped and killed..... 

So

Just cuz of the 50% boost with sharpness 

It can't be banned since it's coverage is great but it has too predictable movesets due to the greed of every move getting the sharpness boost 🤍

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On 5/26/2023 at 4:18 AM, HarshHere said:

I myself am a Gallade user as of now, am not an expert so my opinions can totally be wrong but as far as I have noticed, there r 2 types of Gallade users:-

1. Scarf Gallade with Night Slash and Leaf Blade with SacredSword+PsychoCut

2. Life orb Gallade with Swords dance in place of either of the 2 coverage acc to team req

(3. I have tried using Razor claw on it sometimes and the 25% crit chance just destroys if the opponent doesn't have something like Skarm Or something to completely block us and even then 1 crit can destroy walls too) 

And all the 3 types have obvious weaknesses

1 has the easily predicted swtiches

2 has the risk of being Outspeeded by something and getting destroyed in 1 physically damaging move

3 has the risk of not landing a crit(25%≠100%) or being outsped and killed..... 

So

Just cuz of the 50% boost with sharpness 

It can't be banned since it's coverage is great but it has too predictable movesets due to the greed of every move getting the sharpness boost 🤍

Leaf Blade? I've seen Aerial Ace so Gallades could challenge other gallades and have some coverage to Volcarona and Grass(aka Breloom 4x and Serperior)

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15 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

Leaf Blade? I've seen Aerial Ace so Gallades could challenge other gallades and have some coverage to Volcarona and Grass(aka Breloom 4x and Serperior)

13 hours ago, drewq said:

Caio, every day you stray further from God. 

In other words, Psycho Cut is superior to Aerial Ace and only does a small margin less damage (EDIT: in certain situations). Often, Life Orb +/- Stealth Rocks is enough for Psycho Cut to kill all of the 'mons you mentioned.

Edited by DoubleJ
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When will we get a solution for this mon, losing due to failing to guess the lottery number vs this thing its getting boring, and switching playstyles bc gallade only allows one shouldnt be an option.

Tried bleye, leaf does over 50%, also gliscor just to find out that one guy was using a.vest ice punch, this mon is just too strong to even tried to scout his set, every switch is losing a pokemon if you dont guess correctly.

You are suppose to control strong mons with rocks, rocky helmet, his own recoil dmg, etc, but this one doesnt give a fuck about anything. some people just spam psycho cut to not take rocky.h dmg, it hits hard even on resists, so at the end you lose your recovers or you lose a mon triying to predict.

Duels are 6v6 , one pokemon deciding the outcome of a whole battle its just stupid.

I dont usually post here bc the tc has been accurate balancing things, but this one for some reason is taking to long.

Edited by Frag
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2 hours ago, Frag said:

When will we get a solution for this mon, losing due to failing to guess the lottery number vs this thing its getting boring, and switching playstyles bc gallade only allows one shouldnt be an option.

Tried bleye, leaf does over 50%, also gliscor just to find out that one guy was using a.vest ice punch, this mon is just too strong to even tried to scout his set, every switch is losing a pokemon if you dont guess correctly.

You are suppose to control strong mons with rocks, rocky helmet, his own recoil dmg, etc, but this one doesnt give a fuck about anything. some people just spam psycho cut to not take rocky.h dmg, it hits hard even on resists, so at the end you lose your recovers or you lose a mon triying to predict.

Duels are 6v6 , one pokemon deciding the outcome of a whole battle its just stupid.

I dont usually post here bc the tc has been accurate balancing things, but this one for some reason is taking to long.

If you use slow mons you deserve to lo... er-hem, gallade would be a threat to your team like Crawdaunt would be, Darmanitan would be... Gallade is far superior as a wallbreak due to reasons that you mentioned(don't care about Rocky Helmet and LO chip, also doesn't take recoil dmg) but it had same weakness than other wallbreakers, a common issue to all of them, that are being too slow without buff(aka DD or Scarf) and due to that, loss easily to Offenses that had ways to outspeed and abuse from the weak defensive bulk. Rains for example, almost no issues if a abuser are on field.

Edited by caioxlive13
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18 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

If you use slow mons you deserve to lo... er-hem, gallade would be a threat to your team like Crawdaunt would be, Darmanitan would be... Gallade is far superior as a wallbreak due to reasons that you mentioned(don't care about Rocky Helmet and LO chip, also doesn't take recoil dmg) but it had same weakness than other wallbreakers, a common issue to all of them, that are being too slow without buff(aka DD or Scarf) and due to that, loss easily to Offenses that had ways to outspeed and abuse from the weak defensive bulk. Rains for example, almost no issues if a abuser are on field.

If you have nothing to contribute, you could just like, not write.

 

I agree with what Frags say, you are literally playing the lottery to try and scout for his set

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to remove gallame is to allow everyone to spam gliscor, amongus for free is to have boring games every time

 

Basically I like the stall, but playing against a guy who lost at 20min
and spam regenerator + protec toxic gliscor, for play 1hours for nothing

 

I say thank you gallame for punishing it's people 🙂

Edited by MadaraSixSix
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6 hours ago, Frag said:

Gliscor, amongus is good, and boring af, but adding something broken to combat it wasnt a good choice, that's a 9th gen ability, which our current mons can't handle.

 

iam not saying this solution is best

 

but i said meta before gallame is not healty

 

for 9th gen additions, they always do what they want, just look at the nerf recover or they didn't ask anyone

Edited by MadaraSixSix
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On 6/1/2023 at 10:59 AM, MadaraSixSix said:

I don't know where to post this

 

there is no discussion for shaymin in the UU?

 

or people don't care about this trashy tiers  party? xd

The chaos on OU are immense. There is no point to look on lower tiers if higher ones are too unstable(Like, what is the point of banning 1 broken mon if 12 drop on next month?). We're asking for changes, I and Gbwead already proposed some solutions(Use VR/Tour usage , Change cutoffs...) but moderators didn't answer us.

On 5/31/2023 at 8:29 PM, MadaraSixSix said:

to remove gallame is to allow everyone to spam gliscor, amongus for free is to have boring games every time

 

Basically I like the stall, but playing against a guy who lost at 20min
and spam regenerator + protec toxic gliscor, for play 1hours for nothing

 

I say thank you gallame for punishing it's people 🙂

A stall abuser complaining about long matches? Okay, i've seen everything on this game. No offenses.

Edited by caioxlive13
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Let's get back to the topic: What could be a priority solution in your opinion? Is very clear that every tier is broken rn , but what we should look at first? Is banning things on all tiers? or forgot lower ones and try to create a fairly balanced meta on OU, before look on UU and NU?

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1 minute ago, caioxlive13 said:

Okay, you won. 

 

Let's get back to the topic: What could be a priority solution in your opinion? Is very clear that every tier is broken rn , but what we should look at first? Is banning things on all tiers? or forgot lower ones and try to create a fairly balanced meta on OU, before look on UU and NU?

Well to start I don't find the OU to be as chaotic as the UU (this is my opinion)

 

the solutions do not depend on me but if I had the possibility I would have banned a lot of things
and I will not have removed recover

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2 minutes ago, MadaraSixSix said:

Well to start I don't find the OU to be as chaotic as the UU (this is my opinion)

 

the solutions do not depend on me but if I had the possibility I would have banned a lot of things
and I will not have removed recover

OU is a bit. We have gallade as a threat, but like you pointed, if it gets removed, then Gliscor and Amoongus would dominate and be a test to your patience(Bringing any lost match to 1h without reason). If want to fix UU, OU must be stable so no broken things would drop and broken things on UU like Shaymin and Crawdaunt would be better analyzed.

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Seriously, I am a really active player in OU rank, specially in rank. And I can tell that Stall+dugdrio is the only playable stall style in this meta now. because that is the only safety way to solve gallade. You can say that common stall style player--Frags, he got high winrate tho, but check how much he dropped in this week, it's about from 89% to 81% when he reached about 850. There is no question to his skill or team build, Is because the team style he picked seems not playable in this meta, which just the common standard stall+choice attacker things like that.

 

Gallade makes a style not playable and the whole meta make changed by him, they change to offensive team or trap stall things like that and it obviously will not let gallade get high win rate just like Nidoqueen in NU or Porygon in UU, because I found that it might be a hard work to ban/not ban a mon they only look at pokemon's usage+win rate for judgment.

 

Here is 2 ways

1. Get pp nerf back, so stall can pick bold salamence/Dnight, or sybleye to check it. I have to say 8 pp recover takes walls out of their competitiveness to compare with Regenerator/poison heal walls. If we back to 2 years ago, who can predict hippowdon will drop to UU in future, the answer is not we get legendaries, it is PP nerf. Then I still can not get the reason of nerf pp also still not change it back when Breloom got CC and Gallade got sharpness.

2. ban Gallade+Sacred Sword

 

 

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7 hours ago, Ziiiiio said:

Seriously, I am a really active player in OU rank, specially in rank. And I can tell that Stall+dugdrio is the only playable stall style in this meta now. because that is the only safety way to solve gallade. You can say that common stall style player--Frags, he got high winrate tho, but check how much he dropped in this week, it's about from 89% to 81% when he reached about 850. There is no question to his skill or team build, Is because the team style he picked seems not playable in this meta, which just the common standard stall+choice attacker things like that.

 

Gallade makes a style not playable and the whole meta make changed by him, they change to offensive team or trap stall things like that and it obviously will not let gallade get high win rate just like Nidoqueen in NU or Porygon in UU, because I found that it might be a hard work to ban/not ban a mon they only look at pokemon's usage+win rate for judgment.

 

Here is 2 ways

1. Get pp nerf back, so stall can pick bold salamence/Dnight, or sybleye to check it. I have to say 8 pp recover takes walls out of their competitiveness to compare with Regenerator/poison heal walls. If we back to 2 years ago, who can predict hippowdon will drop to UU in future, the answer is not we get legendaries, it is PP nerf. Then I still can not get the reason of nerf pp also still not change it back when Breloom got CC and Gallade got sharpness.

2. ban Gallade+Sacred Sword

 

 

 

I also think that PP recover's nerf was not an appropriate change for the game. Also, no one asked the community's opinion on this matter, it's unfortunate. Contrary to what you seem to think, I don't think Salamence or Dragonite are good solutions for Ice Punch Gallade. Banning Sacred Sword would not solve the problems we are currently encountering since players would just be playing Close Combat instead.

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What I want to express is that the problem is not only about gallade, the updates this year have led to this situation. Firstly we can not ban Gallade, as Madara just posted, without gallade then 2 regen+glisor boring mirror match will everywhere which is unhealthy. 

 

So, we need limit gallade, because it cause a team style not even playable which sounds just crazy. Gallade not like Crawdaunt, Gallade still can find a killing chance even facing HO team, like vs breloom or sp attackers like hyregon/starmie/volcarona. Gallade's lower limits and upper limits are relatively highier than other mons. It destroys stall team and at same time not useless like Crawdaunt when it facing HO team. Like what we discussed, we can not ban gallade, because it causes game back to 60 mins. We can only increase negative effects or give buff to traditional walls to solve this.

 

I hope we can Ban S-sowrd and change pp nerf back, and I do think it is the best solution:

If we take away Sacred sword, gallade have to change to CC which gives -1 def also only 8 PP.

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Pursuit (40 BP) vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 105-124 (73.4 - 86.7%)

Combination like Helmet skar+CB weavile get a less pressure way to solve lo gallade if ban Sacred sword, and at same time with SD gallade, it strugles with night slash/ice punch/leave blade for it's last move, At same time if we change pp nerf back to increase the usage of Def Dnight/Salamence/Sybleye, it will be a best way to change this situation for this meta now.

 

In this way, it only effect gallade vs stall team, Gallade ttill extremely destructive, but theoretically he would not be able to kill all walls--have to struggle with move choice just like Conkeldorr. and give that stall playstyle back to this meta. We already know gallade is not op when it fascing ho/rain team, that make us can not over nerf gallade.

 

Finnaly I hope my comment will be answered, because it seems to be ignored. after a this topic been created a month later.

 

 

 

 

 

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Quote

What I want to express is that the problem is not only about gallade, the updates this year have led to this situation. Firstly we can not ban Gallade, as Madara just posted, without gallade then 2 regen+glisor boring mirror match will everywhere which is unhealthy. 

 

So, we need limit gallade, because it cause a team style not even playable which sounds just crazy. Gallade not like Crawdaunt, Gallade still can find a killing chance even facing HO team, like vs breloom or sp attackers like hyregon/starmie/volcarona. Gallade's lower limits and upper limits are relatively highier than other mons. It destroys stall team and at same time not useless like Crawdaunt when it facing HO team. Like what we discussed, we can not ban gallade, because it causes game back to 60 mins. We can only increase negative effects or give buff to traditional walls to solve this.

I agree with this.

 

Quote

I hope we can Ban S-sowrd and change pp nerf back, and I do think it is the best solution:

If we take away Sacred sword, gallade have to change to CC which gives -1 def also only 8 PP.

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Pursuit (40 BP) vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 105-124 (73.4 - 86.7%)

Combination like Helmet skar+CB weavile get a less pressure way to solve lo gallade if ban Sacred sword, and at same time with SD gallade, it strugles with night slash/ice punch/leave blade for it's last move, At same time if we change pp nerf back to increase the usage of Def Dnight/Salamence/Sybleye, it will be a best way to change this situation for this meta now.

 

In this way, it only effect gallade vs stall team, Gallade ttill extremely destructive, but theoretically he would not be able to kill all walls--have to struggle with move choice just like Conkeldorr. and give that stall playstyle back to this meta. We already know gallade is not op when it fascing ho/rain team, that make us can not over nerf gallade.

 

Finnaly I hope my comment will be answered, because it seems to be ignored. after a this topic been created a month later.

 

Regarding this answer, I maintain that simply removing Sacred Sword would not be a nerf that would change the situation regarding Gallade (especially vs stall). The fact that the number of PPs of Close Combat is lower than those of Sacred Sword does not change much here, since in the vast majority of cases, 8pps will be more than enough. And from what I've heard so far, it seems unlikely the game developers will backtrack on recover's PPs nerf.

 

Of course, there is an attack called pursuit, but you were talking about Gallade invalidating a particular playstyle, in this case, stall. To my knowledge, stall does not abuse pursuit.

 

Again, Salamence and Dragonite are not good answers to Gallade's Ice Punch, even less if rocks are already set.

 

Sableye doesn't handle Gallade very well because he takes a lot of damage due to his low stats. It easily runs out of recover, and it doesn't do much against Gallade SD+Lum Berry.

 

And then, above all, the usefulness of Sableye in the format is mediocre compared to the other pokemons of the tier.

 

image.png

Edited by Godhelll
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3 hours ago, Ziiiiio said:

What I want to express is that the problem is not only about gallade, the updates this year have led to this situation. Firstly we can not ban Gallade, as Madara just posted, without gallade then 2 regen+glisor boring mirror match will everywhere which is unhealthy. 

 

So, we need limit gallade, because it cause a team style not even playable which sounds just crazy. Gallade not like Crawdaunt, Gallade still can find a killing chance even facing HO team, like vs breloom or sp attackers like hyregon/starmie/volcarona. Gallade's lower limits and upper limits are relatively highier than other mons. It destroys stall team and at same time not useless like Crawdaunt when it facing HO team. Like what we discussed, we can not ban gallade, because it causes game back to 60 mins. We can only increase negative effects or give buff to traditional walls to solve this.

 

I hope we can Ban S-sowrd and change pp nerf back, and I do think it is the best solution:

If we take away Sacred sword, gallade have to change to CC which gives -1 def also only 8 PP.

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Pursuit (40 BP) vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 105-124 (73.4 - 86.7%)

Combination like Helmet skar+CB weavile get a less pressure way to solve lo gallade if ban Sacred sword, and at same time with SD gallade, it strugles with night slash/ice punch/leave blade for it's last move, At same time if we change pp nerf back to increase the usage of Def Dnight/Salamence/Sybleye, it will be a best way to change this situation for this meta now.

 

In this way, it only effect gallade vs stall team, Gallade ttill extremely destructive, but theoretically he would not be able to kill all walls--have to struggle with move choice just like Conkeldorr. and give that stall playstyle back to this meta. We already know gallade is not op when it fascing ho/rain team, that make us can not over nerf gallade.

 

Finnaly I hope my comment will be answered, because it seems to be ignored. after a this topic been created a month later.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with you on the recovery issue.

but many players are happy with the nerf (because they don't like the stall)

we did a survey it's 70% against the nerve and 30% for the nerve

But we must not delude ourselves

a lot of players didn't vote  (do you understand what that means?)

I see too many people hated the stall, for example caio, do you think people like him will follow your fight?

 

they are closed minded and don't understand that people can play different style of games
 
from there I think your fight is dead ^^

 

 

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4 hours ago, Ziiiiio said:

What I want to express is that the problem is not only about gallade, the updates this year have led to this situation. Firstly we can not ban Gallade, as Madara just posted, without gallade then 2 regen+glisor boring mirror match will everywhere which is unhealthy. 

 

So, we need limit gallade, because it cause a team style not even playable which sounds just crazy. Gallade not like Crawdaunt, Gallade still can find a killing chance even facing HO team, like vs breloom or sp attackers like hyregon/starmie/volcarona. Gallade's lower limits and upper limits are relatively highier than other mons. It destroys stall team and at same time not useless like Crawdaunt when it facing HO team. Like what we discussed, we can not ban gallade, because it causes game back to 60 mins. We can only increase negative effects or give buff to traditional walls to solve this.

 

I hope we can Ban S-sowrd and change pp nerf back, and I do think it is the best solution:

If we take away Sacred sword, gallade have to change to CC which gives -1 def also only 8 PP.

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Pursuit (40 BP) vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 105-124 (73.4 - 86.7%)

Combination like Helmet skar+CB weavile get a less pressure way to solve lo gallade if ban Sacred sword, and at same time with SD gallade, it strugles with night slash/ice punch/leave blade for it's last move, At same time if we change pp nerf back to increase the usage of Def Dnight/Salamence/Sybleye, it will be a best way to change this situation for this meta now.

 

In this way, it only effect gallade vs stall team, Gallade ttill extremely destructive, but theoretically he would not be able to kill all walls--have to struggle with move choice just like Conkeldorr. and give that stall playstyle back to this meta. We already know gallade is not op when it fascing ho/rain team, that make us can not over nerf gallade.

 

Finnaly I hope my comment will be answered, because it seems to be ignored. after a this topic been created a month later.

 

 

 

 

 

ah no sry (not 70/30) xddd

 

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Honestly i don't think that Gallade is bannable. Balanced and stall aren't playable anymore, they would most likely suffer to win with or without gallade, pp nerf broke they in 970493 different ways. He just destroy those teams like some wallbreaks destroy them and get destroyed by offenses like the wallbreakers are destroyed by them. If people will complain about it until something is done, i'd prefer sharpness nerfed to 30% or 16 PP back but not the mon banned or the ability.

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