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TT of the year vanity


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On 5/9/2023 at 1:46 PM, Imperial said:

Hi Darkshade, I think there may have been some confusion so wanted to check with you:

 

Team Of The Year - This is for teams who finished 1st, 2nd and 3rd place in Team Tournament 2022 (OpTc, SLSY and VGC). Could you please confirm if the animated globe you showed us are for those three teams, in gold, silver and bronze respectively?

 

Cup Of The Year - This is for the team who won Cup Of The Year 2022 which was a one-off tournament, so [Lo]Romantic (my understanding is there were no vanities for 2nd and 3rd for this competition). Could you please confirm if they will receive the same gold globe vanity, or if they will receive a different exclusive vanity?


The globe is meant to be a Cup of The Year. The Team of the Year will get the original trophy as announced in the team tournament threads. In short, the team of year one is unchanged.

I considered making COTY bigger due to this, but having 8 best teams compete for it is fitting.

 

On 5/9/2023 at 7:22 PM, LifeStyleNORE said:

Won team of the year 2019 and 2020, cup of the year 2020 as well...

 

I hope these are rectroactive @Darkshade

 

On 5/19/2023 at 2:20 AM, Makarovs said:

 

The first time Bear announced this vanity, I asked if my team would receive it since we finished at the top in 2021, but according to him only for 2022 onwards.

 

On 5/20/2023 at 11:45 AM, LifeStyleNORE said:

Team of the Year concept started in 2019 tho? 

 


I'm happy to announce that since I recognized officially teams as winners, and unified all the editions to have the same rules and points system, we decided to go retroactively with prizes, with starting year depending on the historical scores and fairness.

 

Darkshade mentioned the required update I believe, so the general timeline is:

 

After the update, teams 1-3 from 2022 should receive their prizes. Cup of the Year as well. 


In the meantime, I'm going to go across the old standings again, to ensure no one will be robbed. Not entirely sure if we will give prizes for places 1-3 or just 1 for older years, yet. Most likely I will go with champions. 

 

Meanwhile, starting soon I will gather information from old thread registrations about who played in the TTs. If those players even play still, they shall get their prize, regardless of the current team. For logistic purposes, we will not give out prizes only because someone was on the team at the time of winning. 

It will most likely take a bit of time, especially with expecting Johto, but it will be high on my priority list.

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17 hours ago, Bearminator said:

I'm happy to announce that since I recognized officially teams as winners, and unified all the editions to have the same rules and points system, we decided to go retroactively with prizes, with starting year depending on the historical scores and fairness.

I have noticed some errors in previous announcements regarding the best team of each year. I never really cared since it had no impact, but if there will be some prizes given retroactively I would like to point out these mistakes:

 

On 1/11/2021 at 12:31 PM, Bearminator said:

 

2016

[Aw] Asgard Warriors

 

Team [RNG] RandomNoobGamers should be get the title for the year 2016.

 

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22 minutes ago, gbwead said:

I have noticed some errors in previous announcements regarding the best team of each year. I never really cared since it had no impact, but if there will be some prizes given retroactively I would like to point out these mistakes:

 

Team [RNG] RandomNoobGamers should be get the title for the year 2016.

 

Even if counting 15 points instead of 10, RNG has 57 points to AW's 63. Can you please elaborate?

 

(still full check will happen ofc, just saving time there)

 

 

 

Also clarificiation:

 

Since previous years were counted with 10 points in mind, and the change happened only this year, I dont believe we should count 15 at all for previous years.

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27 minutes ago, Bearminator said:

Even if counting 15 points instead of 10, RNG has 57 points to AW's 63. Can you please elaborate?

 

(still full check will happen ofc, just saving time there)

 

 

 

Also clarificiation:

 

Since previous years were counted with 10 points in mind, and the change happened only this year, I dont believe we should count 15 at all for previous years.

When a system allows a team that won no TT in a year to win the TT of the year, it shows how bad it is.
You may find it very cool to manipulate numbers and create a custom weighting, but maybe it's time to stop playing the data analyst and just give that title to the team that has won more TTs on the year and only consider the remainder when there is a tie.

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31 minutes ago, Bearminator said:

Even if counting 15 points instead of 10, RNG has 57 points to AW's 63. Can you please elaborate?

 

(still full check will happen ofc, just saving time there)

 

 

 

Also clarificiation:

 

Since previous years were counted with 10 points in mind, and the change happened only this year, I dont believe we should count 15 at all for previous years.

It wouldn't be fair to use any point system that was created after the competition of those year ended. The scoring system has some fundamental flaws. It got changed and improved. That's really good, but some flaws still remain and I wouldn't be surprise if it changes again.

 

Also, TT in 2016 were quite different than now. They were limited spots, smaller brackets, etc. A scoring system that was designed recently would not even make sense for back then.

At the time, the only form of recognition teams got was a mention in @DoubleJ thread. Back then, it was simple. Whoever won the most TT was team of the year. In 2016, RNG won 3 TT and Saké won 3 TT. That meant they were tied these teams shared that title.

 

bea90cbf5dd1a7e17921e08a10caed31.png

 

This what the scoring system used at the time:
87bb3e1ea170f86a29320792f425e3e5.png

 

Considering brackets were smaller, it didn't make a lot of sense to award teams with points just for reaching round 2 or semis. You reach finals and then it's either a win or a lose.

 

I would like to point out something extremely important too. In 2016, YUBELLLLLLL won 3 TT with RNG and 3 TT with Saké. YUBELLLL won a total of 6 TT in 2016. I simply can't imagine a situation where YUBEL who was part of the two teams that tied for best of the year in 2016 ends up with no recognition whatsoever 7 years later.

 

Anyways, thank you for honoring retroactively the teams that competed in Team Tournaments. However, if you do so, please consider doing so by respecting the customs of the time.

Edited by gbwead
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17 minutes ago, Sashaolin said:

When a system allows a team that won no TT in a year to win the TT of the year, it shows how bad it is.

 

16 minutes ago, gbwead said:

It wouldn't be fair to use any point system that was created after the competition of those year ended. The scoring system has some fundamental flaws. It got changed and improved. That's really good, but some flaws still remain and I wouldn't be surprise if it changes again.

 

I'm sorry but I disagree. Calling a team A team of year XYZ then changing it due to changed suddenly criteria, which never was part of the official scoring for 2013-2018 era is unjust as well. Then we would have different criteria for 2019-2022, then different for 2023 - its just a mess that Im not willing to introduce. The points system that was used to find winners in 2019-2022 will be the one used to find the winners in 2013-2018. Im sure some teams will be hurt, but some will be hurt no matter the decision.


2023 edition can still be won by a team who hasn't won most TTs during the year and Im not willing to change that either, and I'm sure we talked about it for ages now. The change to 15 points was about as far as I wanted to take it.
 

 


Side note:
 

If I count 15 points for win, and no points for 2nd round :

 

AW: 61 points

RNG: 49 points.

 

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3 minutes ago, Bearminator said:

 

I'm sorry but I disagree. Calling a team A team of year XYZ then changing it due to changed suddenly criteria, which never was part of the official scoring for 2013-2018 era is unjust as well. Then we would have different criteria for 2019-2022, then different for 2023 - its just a mess that Im not willing to introduce. The points system that was used to find winners in 2019-2022 will be the one used to find the winners in 2013-2018. Im sure some teams will be hurt, but some will be hurt no matter the decision.


2023 edition can still be won by a team who hasn't won most TTs during the year and Im not willing to change that either, and I'm sure we talked about it for ages now. The change to 15 points was about as far as I wanted to take it.
 

 

Please understand that the only scoring system that existed at the time was the one set up by DoubleJ. It was simple: 5 pts for the winner; 2 pts for the loser. That's it. When people disagreed with DoubleJ's scoring system, they created their own. That's what I did in 2017, I created my own scoring system for individuals. That's what Lkrenz did in 2018, he did the same. That's what Lifestyle did in 2018. However, no one fought agaisnt the scoring system DoubleJ made because it was straightfoward and fair.

 

AW is an amazing team, the decorated team in the history of this game no question about it. Saying RNG/Saké won 2016 and AURA won 2017 doesn't take anything from AW. However, RNG/Saké and AURA fought hard to get the title of best team of the year. I don't think it's fair that years after they won, their title gets stripped away based on a new scoring system. It's quite sad really, it feels like spiting in our faces for the little we won.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Bearminator said:

 

I'm sorry but I disagree. Calling a team A team of year XYZ then changing it due to changed suddenly criteria, which never was part of the official scoring for 2013-2018 era is unjust as well. Then we would have different criteria for 2019-2022, then different for 2023 - its just a mess that Im not willing to introduce.

 

That is exactly what you have done, you have corrupted history by designating new winners of your hat thanks to your subjective weighting disconnected from reality.
Not only is your system a joke that allows a team that hasn't won any TT to win the TT of the year, but it also sullies history and our memories.

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1 minute ago, gbwead said:

Please understand that the only scoring system that existed at the time was the one set up by DoubleJ. It was simple: 5 pts for the winner; 2 pts for the loser. That's it. When people disagreed with DoubleJ's scoring system, they created their own. That's what I did in 2017, I created my own scoring system for individuals. That's what Lkrenz did in 2018, he did the same. That's what Lifestyle did in 2018. However, no one fought agaisnt the scoring system DoubleJ made because it was straightfoward and fair.

 

AW is an amazing team, the decorated team in the history of this game no question about it. Saying RNG/Saké won 2016 and AURA won 2017 doesn't take anything from AW. However, RNG/Saké and AURA fought hard to get the title of best team of the year. I don't think it's fair that years after they won, their title gets stripped away based on a new scoring system. It's quite sad really, it feels like spiting in our faces for the little we won.

 

 

No one complained about the scoring system I created, even DoubleJJ, who commented on the original thread. I'm sorry, but unofficial scores and statistics will not be taken, someone can argue it was DJs, someone else will say Lkrenz's one was better. But since I used the one I eventually announced winners officially, I will stick to it.

Obviously it sucks for some teams, but It would suck for others if change will be made. 

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1 hour ago, Bearminator said:

Side note:
 

If I count 15 points for win, and no points for 2nd round :

 

AW: 61 points

RNG: 49 points.

This doesn't make sense. You can't apply a scoring system designed for unlimited number of spots to old school brackets where there were fewer rounds. You're half way through the bracket already after the 2nd round.

 

1 hour ago, Bearminator said:

No one complained about the scoring system I created, even DoubleJJ, who commented on the original thread. I'm sorry, but unofficial scores and statistics will not be taken, someone can argue it was DJs, someone else will say Lkrenz's one was better. But since I used the one I eventually announced winners officially, I will stick to it.

Obviously it sucks for some teams, but It would suck for others if change will be made. 

No one complained because there was no impact. If you give prizes retroactively, it does have an impact. And the scoring system you made is not appropriate for the time. 

 

I know I'm triple posting. I apologize. If possible, please merge my posts.
 

1 hour ago, Bearminator said:

I'm sorry, but unofficial scores and statistics will not be taken,

You have complete power here. You decide what is official and what is not. You can decide that, for 2013 to 2019, what is official is 5 pts to the winner, 2 pts to the loser.

 

 

1 hour ago, Bearminator said:

someone can argue it was DJs, someone else will say Lkrenz's one was better.

I understand your point if there was multiple scoring system for Team Tournaments at the time, but the reality is that there weren't other scoring system and that means something. 

When players have different views, they each do their own system. That was not the case. No one disputed DoubleJ ways when it came down to Team Tournaments.

 

 

@Bearminator You have put so much work in Team Tournaments. Tracking and scoring the performances of each team over the course of more than 10 years. I can't even begin to imagine how long that must have taken. Thank you. I'm not trying to shit on your work. I just hope that you can see that others worked too. Please look at DoubleJ's thread. Look at the comments. Players were not fighting about the scoring system for TT, they were fighting about the scoring system for individuals. When it came to teams, the only things players asked was to please add Player Y as a noteworthy player TEAM W. That should show you how much it meant to be in a team back then. There was no large cash prize to compete for. There was no vanity to win at the end of the year. The only thing teams won was recognition. And this is what the thread shows. I'm not saying DoubleJ thread should get an official status. I'm just asking if you could please honor how the team of the year was determined back then.

 

edit: Please don't rewrite history.

Edited by gbwead
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History is always written by the winning side? :']

 

On a side note, i want to thank you all here. Ive never participated in a TT. They seem fun. Its remarkable how much effort and passion you guys have invested, in what seems to be a player hosted fun event that has turned hardcore. 

 

the fact that you lovely bunch are in the background hashing all these details out and throwing so much extra effort into the game, definitely warms my heart and keeps me playing. Though it doesnt really effect me directly, its very nice to see so much burning love for the competitive atmosphere. 

 

 

Edited by CanadaSorry
Being a mushy canadian
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17 minutes ago, CanadaSorry said:

History is always written by the winning side? :']

 

On a side note, i want to thank you all here. Ive never participated in a TT. They seem fun. Its remarkable how much effort and passion you guys have invested, in what seems to be a player hosted fun event that has turned hardcore. 

 

the fact that you lovely bunch are in the background hashing all these details out and throwing so much extra effort into the game, definitely warms my heart and keeps me playing. Though it doesnt really effect me directly, its very nice to see so much burning love for the competitive atmosphere. 

 

 

Canadians being Canadian exhibit 101

 

You're soo nice lmaoooo 

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6 minutes ago, LeJovi said:

Canadians being Canadian exhibit 101

 

You're soo nice lmaoooo 

Thankyou ♡ lol

 

Just now, gbwead said:

I'm Canadian too, no one here ever calls me nice 😢 

 

Dw :] i appreciate you. The community analyst is an important role ans you do a ton of ther stuff too. I see you lol

 

Its just really cool to not only have a bad ass game, but also a bad ass community to back it up as well. So many good games get ruined with a garbage community, or if its not garbage, its just boring. Love this game, and all the extra work you guys do, is awesome even just to follow along with and chew some popcorn lol even you Bear :] thankyouuuuu

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39 minutes ago, CanadaSorry said:

History is always written by the winning side? :']

More like, history has been rewritten by someone who is not part of it.
Someone who woke up one day with the idea of the most absurd formula, he was so proud of his formula that he decided to use his power to reinvent a fabulous history disconnected from all reality.
Luckily his wacky idea only altered part of the story and only a minority of teams were harmed.
This idea is so absurd that it could have titled a team that never won anything, obviously that would have unleashed the crowds but the disastrous rankings resulting from its formula were overshadowed by the fact that one team completely dominated this period.
Other teams have been harmed but they no longer exist and are not there to protest against this abomination.
All that's left are us, weary veterans who fight the demon in vain.

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Friendly reminder i was player of TT for years, leading my team. We were absolutely worst at it, but we tried. Then i reffed, then I hosted. Its not like i just took TT as mine cause no one wanted it ^^.  Formula makes it possible for team with no TT wins to win a year, but its so highly unlikely that i dont even consider it an option. Matter of opinion, to choose which one is better.

 

Should have speak of formula sooner, guys. When - after 3 years - GB started talk about improvements, I argued with him, then we have found middle ground, giving more spotlight to wins. 

 

I might grind teeth sometimes if I hear same discussions 15th time with same arguments from both sides, but I did not tried to make TT bigger than it was because i wanted to show off some formula- i did it from never ending passion for idea of this tournament. Some asked for more spotlight from tts, i made general standings. Increase in prizes in meantime, then finally vanities. I would never spend hours reading discords discussions, pms, etc if I wouldnt care, so lets assume i do and work forward. 

 

So no worries @gbwead, I never take your arguments personally, and thank you for kind words. I will reach out to community about it, while fixing standings in meantime. For now, waiting for more voices about it.

 

 

 

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As a non competitive player I've been in LYLE, NORE, Aw and many more competitive teams over the years. 
Even though I'm personally not affected by which team gets the vanity I'd just like to share my 2 cents since I understand the grind and at times toxicity most competitive players have to swim through to be the best.
Also since most competitive players are usually not fulltime item / shiny traders and are constantly burning money on making more comps, the appeal of a vanity earned from winning is the best flex for many!

If scores were calculated in a different way in the past and that determined that time's overall winner, I believe it's only fair that it should be honored. And the new scoring system only be applicable to the years / TT where it was introduced.
If a team was rated to be the best by the standard that existed back then, it really makes no sense to challenge that title with a new system which was implemented much later on and they can be rewarded accordingly.

Or you can also consider giving it to the top 2 teams of that year if the calculation is really getting out of hand and no scenario seems fair.
And if that isn't going to work either, it's for times like these that we have a Mayor! I believe we need to submit to whatever our elected leader decides.

@Bestfriends Please guide your constituents and help end this debate.

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The way I see it. You either honor the way scoring was done in the past or you have the PERFECT formula to apply to all cases (past and future). Improving the formula should apply to all years imo. 

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      Team Good/ Team Bad 

     Best Players/Bad Players

    Bots Players/ no bot Players

   Group Discord/ no group Discord

    Good Leader / Bad Leader

  Good Monster/ Bad Monster

                    All vs All

                New Players

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4 hours ago, Akshit said:

As a non competitive player I've been in LYLE, NORE, Aw and many more competitive teams over the years. 
Even though I'm personally not affected by which team gets the vanity I'd just like to share my 2 cents since I understand the grind and at times toxicity most competitive players have to swim through to be the best.
Also since most competitive players are usually not fulltime item / shiny traders and are constantly burning money on making more comps, the appeal of a vanity earned from winning is the best flex for many!

If scores were calculated in a different way in the past and that determined that time's overall winner, I believe it's only fair that it should be honored. And the new scoring system only be applicable to the years / TT where it was introduced.
If a team was rated to be the best by the standard that existed back then, it really makes no sense to challenge that title with a new system which was implemented much later on and they can be rewarded accordingly.

Or you can also consider giving it to the top 2 teams of that year if the calculation is really getting out of hand and no scenario seems fair.
And if that isn't going to work either, it's for times like these that we have a Mayor! I believe we need to submit to whatever our elected leader decides.

@Bestfriends Please guide your constituents and help end this debate.

I think that a vanity for TT of the Year champions would be something that can boost enthusiasm to partake in more Team Tournaments.

 

As for the TT scoring system, that is beyond my scope of specialty, however I trust the level headed minds in this thread to make a good call on this. Whatever the results may be from these discussions, I wish the Teams well with their competitions!

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19 hours ago, Bearminator said:

Friendly reminder i was player of TT for years, leading my team. We were absolutely worst at it, but we tried. Then i reffed, then I hosted. Its not like i just took TT as mine cause no one wanted it ^^.  Formula makes it possible for team with no TT wins to win a year, but its so highly unlikely that i dont even consider it an option. Matter of opinion, to choose which one is better.

 

Should have speak of formula sooner, guys. When - after 3 years - GB started talk about improvements, I argued with him, then we have found middle ground, giving more spotlight to wins. 

 

I might grind teeth sometimes if I hear same discussions 15th time with same arguments from both sides, but I did not tried to make TT bigger than it was because i wanted to show off some formula- i did it from never ending passion for idea of this tournament. Some asked for more spotlight from tts, i made general standings. Increase in prizes in meantime, then finally vanities. I would never spend hours reading discords discussions, pms, etc if I wouldnt care, so lets assume i do and work forward. 

 

So no worries @gbwead, I never take your arguments personally, and thank you for kind words. I will reach out to community about it, while fixing standings in meantime. For now, waiting for more voices about it.

Oh poor Bear, he gave so much for the team tournaments that we have to let him spit in our face.
You know exactly what I meant when I said you weren't part of history, I mean you didn't win anything and therefore you have nothing to lose.
No one has questioned your involvement and all the work you have done for the community, yet your message is just a long irrelevant argument about it to defend you from erasing part of history.
Don't you understand that you created an irreparable mess, you stole prestige from teams and then gave it to teams who had never claimed it?
It has become impossible to fix this mistake without hurting someone now so don't blame us for showing up late because the damage is done.
What's happening now is that you keep pressing on the wound with this retroactive thing.
Many people believe what you did is unfair, they were not affected by this disaster and yet they stand up against your decision but you keep ignoring the facts and bring non-sense on the table.
What I am going to say you will be able to take it personally, I think you are very good in the organization and the management of events but you are disastrous when it comes to making decisions. Your formula is a joke, it punishes the winner of the tournament, it's the opposite of what was done before you came to destroy everything.
Pull yourself together man and heal yourself from this acute bad faith.

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I honestly (personally) couldn't give a hot shit about this vanity, everyone knows Aura was the best team during at least one year, even despite the fact that we are dead for at least 4-5 years, we are still one of the top teams to ever greet this game. I do not need a vanity to go back with my memories to the team tours we won back in the old days. Sure it would be cool, but I don't need it. I would rather write new history with my new team and just remind myself about how great was our team with a tear in my eye.

It would be a cool form of acknowledging us, our team and what we have brought to this game etc, but I personally don't need it.

@YettoDie speak Nerd pls what you think about it, you were leading that team with me for years, we could use your input since we are also topic of discussion 

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7 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

I honestly (personally) couldn't give a hot shit about this vanity, everyone knows Aura was the best team during at least one year, even despite the fact that we are dead for at least 4-5 years, we are still one of the top teams to ever greet this game. I do not need a vanity to go back with my memories to the team tours we won back in the old days. Sure it would be cool, but I don't need it. I would rather write new history with my new team and just remind myself about how great was our team with a tear in my eye.

It would be a cool form of acknowledging us, our team and what we have brought to this game etc, but I personally don't need it.

@YettoDie speak Nerd pls what you think about it, you were leading that team with me for years, we could use your input since we are also topic of discussion 

Come on 4f, like I give a fuck about a vanity?
Let's just put it in context, a guy came out of nowhere, he changed the history books and then he acts like nothing happened, even worse he's impersonating the victim and I should remain silent for life?
It won't happen like that, I still have an unfair warning point to receive before my retirement.

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