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CatchMMO Comeback (December 20th)


Rache

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can we un ban dugtrio from this? non bred means no egg move screech or reversal so it cant beat bliss/lax unless already injured as revenge kill. it is significantly weaker maybe so much that the uncompetative arena trap wont matter?

 

edit: as senile said "mearly having a uncompetative ability is not enough to be worth a ban unless you can abuse the ability" then he went on to refer to wynaut and trampinch...

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can we un ban dugtrio from this? non bred means no egg move screech or reversal so it cant beat bliss/lax unless already injured as revenge kill. it is significantly weaker maybe so much that the uncompetative arena trap wont matter?

 

edit: as senile said "mearly having a uncompetative ability is not enough to be worth a ban unless you can abuse the ability" then he went on to refer to wynaut and trampinch...

Oops, I seem to have missed this~ Sorry about that.

 

While I'm not opposed to banning things that will inevitably be broken/centralizing in such an environment such as Mence/Dragonite/Hera, unbanning something that's officially banned is something that I'd rather not do. At the end of it, players that brought a Dugtrio will have a Pokemon that becomes quite literally useless whereas other caught Pokemon can possibly be used in future battles. Dugtrio's trapping is something inherently uncompetitive in and of itself, and combined with Choice Band, is quite a menace. As far as I know it's pretty amazing in ADV even without access to Reversal, and is pretty much instant death for a variety of Pokemon when it manages to come in, and there's nothing that the other player can do about it. Unless there's a really compelling argument to allow it, I'd rather keep it banned.

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good answer rache.

 

ok so calcs (pls read this took me a long time)

[spoiler]

ok so currently 44 pokemon in ou. of which: aerodactyl, breloom, dragonite, espeon, heracross, jolteon, ludicolo, salamance, umbreon, and vaporeon are banned form this tourney. that leaves 34 pokemon. of which charizard, crobat, dodrio, gengar, gyarados, jumpluff, skarmory, and weezing are flying or levitate and can not be trapped. so that leaves 26 OU pokemon that can be trapped. now dugtrio is not in the least bit bulky. the only moves it can switch in on safely are electric attacks. generally you need something to die to let dugtrio in safely or take a risky prediction. from 26 dug can trap 1 speed ties zam so even if you trap it it's a 50/50 weather dug gets in a hit or dies. the other 25 dug outspeeds so is garunteed at least one hit. these being:

-arcanine

-blissey

-chansey

-dusklops

-exeggutor

-grandbull

-hariyanma

-houndoom

-jynx

-kangaskhan

-kingdra

-lapras

-machamp

-marrowak

-rhydon

-scizor

-slaking

-slowbro

-slowking

-smeeargle

-snorlax

-starmie

-tauros

-ursaring

-venasaur

 

now arcanine has e speed. while standard 252 hp/att arc cant 1hko dug naturally, if it holds choice band itself or gets a howl in it can ohko dug garunteed.

Arcanine ExtremeSpeed vs. Dugtrio: 77-91 (70 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 Arcanine ExtremeSpeed vs. Dugtrio: 115-136 (104.5 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Arcanine: 226-266 (114.7 - 135%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Arcanine: 153-180 (77.6 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(non cb set in case someone runs sub + leichi)
 
blissey Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Blissey: 165-195 (45.5 - 53.8%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
counter or ice beam or dcurl + up.
 
chansey has no place here cause blissey
 
dusklops Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Dusclops: 56-67 (38 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
 wow then painsplit so rip dug
 
exeggutor 
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Exeggutor: 53-63 (30.9 - 36.8%) -- 70.6% chance to 3HKO
Choice Band Dugtrio Aerial Ace vs. Exeggutor: 86-102 (50.2 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Choice Band Dugtrio Hidden Power Flying vs. Exeggutor: 102-120 (59.6 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Choice Band Dugtrio Hidden Power Bug vs. Exeggutor: 204-240 (119.2 - 140.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
so only attack dug can 1hko exeggutor with is hp bug (which is good for nothing else cause no celebi) if exeggutor gets sun up it outspeeds dug. also Exeggutor Giga Drain vs. Dugtrio: 147-174 (133.6 - 158.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
 
grandbull
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Granbull: 118-139 (59.8 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Granbull Return vs. Dugtrio: 156-184 (141.8 - 167.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
 
hariyama (252 hp/att adamant (yes i know better ev spreads but doesnt matter))
Hariyama Fake Out vs. Dugtrio: 41-49 (37.2 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Hariyama Superpower vs. Dugtrio: 183-216 (166.3 - 196.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Hariyama: 140-165 (55.7 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
houndoom
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Houndoom: 321-378 (214 - 252%) -- guaranteed OHKO
doom dies unless endure + salac + hp ice or something which realistically isnt going to happen
 
jynx 
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Jynx: 204-240 (145.7 - 171.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
jynx also dies unless some weird endure/salac set
 
kangaskhan
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Kangaskhan: 113-133 (53.3 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Kangaskhan Fake Out vs. Dugtrio: 41-49 (37.2 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. Dugtrio: 123-145 (111.8 - 131.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Kangaskhan Return vs. Dugtrio: 104-123 (94.5 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
 
kingdra(no one will use this till rain fixed ofc)
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Kingdra: 97-115 (53.2 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Kingdra Surf vs. Dugtrio: 153-180 (137.8 - 162.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
lapras (i just put down 252 hp 0 everything else no standard set)
Lapras Surf vs. Dugtrio: 127-150 (114.4 - 135.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Lapras: 113-133 (47.6 - 56.1%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
machamp
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Machamp: 113-133 (57.3 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Machamp Superpower vs. Dugtrio: 193-228 (173.8 - 205.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
marrowak
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Marowak: 87-103 (63.9 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Thick Club Marowak Earthquake vs. Dugtrio: 212-250 (190.9 - 225.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
rhydon
vs 252hp Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Rhydon: 163-192 (76.8 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
vs 4hp Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Rhydon: 163-192 (90 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
Rhydon Earthquake vs. Dugtrio: 161-190 (145 - 171.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
scizor i just put 4hp 252 att adamant cause idk what sets peeps run
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Scizor: 94-111 (64.3 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Scizor Steel Wing vs. Dugtrio: 114-135 (102.7 - 121.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
slaking
vs 4hp Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Slaking: 94-111 (41.5 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
vs252 hp Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Slaking: 94-111 (36.5 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Slaking Return vs. Dugtrio: 192-226 (172.9 - 203.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
slowbro
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Slowbro: 63-75 (31.1 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Slowbro Surf vs. Dugtrio: 144-170 (129.7 - 153.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
slowking 252hp
Slowking Surf vs. Dugtrio: 144-170 (129.7 - 153.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Slowking: 113-133 (55.9 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
smeargle
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Smeargle: 204-240 (156.9 - 184.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(if max att spore/bdrum/espeed)
+6 Smeargle ExtremeSpeed vs. Dugtrio: 204-240 (183.7 - 216.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
but really why would anyone run sme?
 
snorlax
252 hp 0 att/def neutral nat
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Snorlax: 132-156 (49.4 - 58.4%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Snorlax Return vs. Dugtrio: 107-127 (96.3 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
 
 
starmie
4hp Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Starmie: 107-126 (78.6 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252hp Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Starmie: 107-126 (64 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Starmie Surf vs. Dugtrio: 183-216 (164.8 - 194.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
tauros (jolly 252 att no cb 4hp)
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Tauros: 97-115 (64.2 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Tauros Return vs. Dugtrio: 125-148 (112.6 - 133.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
ursaring 
4hp  Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Ursaring: 118-139 (71 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 hp Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Ursaring: 118-139 (59.8 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Ursaring Return vs. Dugtrio: 165-195 (148.6 - 175.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
venasaur (252 hp no standard set)
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Venusaur: 109-129 (58.2 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Venusaur Giga Drain vs. Dugtrio: 117-138 (105.4 - 124.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(yes that is 75 power giga)
 
so dug can trap and kill
arcanine (if no cb/howl)
exeggutor (if hp bug dug)

houndoom

jynx

rhydon (37.5% chance if 4hp)

smeargle

and several UU/NU's

 

that is 6/34 available OU pokemon that cb dug can trap and kill and only 3 reliably. while there are some UU pokemon dug can trap and kill that are sometimes used in ou like magneton, i chose to draw the line for my calcs at OU cause this already took 1 1/2 hours and i dont have all day. point of all this is dugtrio is a great revenge killer but nerfed how it is it can not fufill the support functions it was banned for (killing all the special walls) and has trouble killing anything at all without support. 

 

[/spoiler]

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good answer rache.

 

ok so calcs (pls read this took me a long time)

[spoiler]

ok so currently 44 pokemon in ou. of which: aerodactyl, breloom, dragonite, espeon, heracross, jolteon, ludicolo, salamance, umbreon, and vaporeon are banned form this tourney. that leaves 34 pokemon. of which charizard, crobat, dodrio, gengar, gyarados, jumpluff, skarmory, and weezing are flying or levitate and can not be trapped. so that leaves 26 OU pokemon that can be trapped. now dugtrio is not in the least bit bulky. the only moves it can switch in on safely are electric attacks. generally you need something to die to let dugtrio in safely or take a risky prediction. from 26 dug can trap 1 speed ties zam so even if you trap it it's a 50/50 weather dug gets in a hit or dies. the other 25 dug outspeeds so is garunteed at least one hit. these being:

-arcanine

-blissey

-chansey

-dusklops

-exeggutor

-grandbull

-hariyanma

-houndoom

-jynx

-kangaskhan

-kingdra

-lapras

-machamp

-marrowak

-rhydon

-scizor

-slaking

-slowbro

-slowking

-smeeargle

-snorlax

-starmie

-tauros

-ursaring

-venasaur

 

now arcanine has e speed. while standard 252 hp/att arc cant 1hko dug naturally, if it holds choice band itself or gets a howl in it can ohko dug garunteed.

Arcanine ExtremeSpeed vs. Dugtrio: 77-91 (70 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 Arcanine ExtremeSpeed vs. Dugtrio: 115-136 (104.5 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Arcanine: 226-266 (114.7 - 135%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Arcanine: 153-180 (77.6 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(non cb set in case someone runs sub + leichi)
 
blissey Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Blissey: 165-195 (45.5 - 53.8%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
counter or ice beam or dcurl + up.
 
chansey has no place here cause blissey
 
dusklops Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Dusclops: 56-67 (38 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
 wow then painsplit so rip dug
 
exeggutor 
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Exeggutor: 53-63 (30.9 - 36.8%) -- 70.6% chance to 3HKO
Choice Band Dugtrio Aerial Ace vs. Exeggutor: 86-102 (50.2 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Choice Band Dugtrio Hidden Power Flying vs. Exeggutor: 102-120 (59.6 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Choice Band Dugtrio Hidden Power Bug vs. Exeggutor: 204-240 (119.2 - 140.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
so only attack dug can 1hko exeggutor with is hp bug (which is good for nothing else cause no celebi) if exeggutor gets sun up it outspeeds dug. also Exeggutor Giga Drain vs. Dugtrio: 147-174 (133.6 - 158.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
 
grandbull
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Granbull: 118-139 (59.8 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Granbull Return vs. Dugtrio: 156-184 (141.8 - 167.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
 
hariyama (252 hp/att adamant (yes i know better ev spreads but doesnt matter))
Hariyama Fake Out vs. Dugtrio: 41-49 (37.2 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Hariyama Superpower vs. Dugtrio: 183-216 (166.3 - 196.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Hariyama: 140-165 (55.7 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
houndoom
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Houndoom: 321-378 (214 - 252%) -- guaranteed OHKO
doom dies unless endure + salac + hp ice or something which realistically isnt going to happen
 
jynx 
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Jynx: 204-240 (145.7 - 171.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
jynx also dies unless some weird endure/salac set
 
kangaskhan
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Kangaskhan: 113-133 (53.3 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Kangaskhan Fake Out vs. Dugtrio: 41-49 (37.2 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. Dugtrio: 123-145 (111.8 - 131.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Kangaskhan Return vs. Dugtrio: 104-123 (94.5 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
 
kingdra(no one will use this till rain fixed ofc)
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Kingdra: 97-115 (53.2 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Kingdra Surf vs. Dugtrio: 153-180 (137.8 - 162.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
lapras (i just put down 252 hp 0 everything else no standard set)
Lapras Surf vs. Dugtrio: 127-150 (114.4 - 135.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Lapras: 113-133 (47.6 - 56.1%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
machamp
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Machamp: 113-133 (57.3 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Machamp Superpower vs. Dugtrio: 193-228 (173.8 - 205.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
marrowak
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Marowak: 87-103 (63.9 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Thick Club Marowak Earthquake vs. Dugtrio: 212-250 (190.9 - 225.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
rhydon
vs 252hp Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Rhydon: 163-192 (76.8 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
vs 4hp Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Rhydon: 163-192 (90 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
Rhydon Earthquake vs. Dugtrio: 161-190 (145 - 171.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
scizor i just put 4hp 252 att adamant cause idk what sets peeps run
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Scizor: 94-111 (64.3 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Scizor Steel Wing vs. Dugtrio: 114-135 (102.7 - 121.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
slaking
vs 4hp Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Slaking: 94-111 (41.5 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
vs252 hp Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Slaking: 94-111 (36.5 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Slaking Return vs. Dugtrio: 192-226 (172.9 - 203.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
slowbro
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Slowbro: 63-75 (31.1 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Slowbro Surf vs. Dugtrio: 144-170 (129.7 - 153.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
slowking 252hp
Slowking Surf vs. Dugtrio: 144-170 (129.7 - 153.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Slowking: 113-133 (55.9 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
smeargle
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Smeargle: 204-240 (156.9 - 184.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(if max att spore/bdrum/espeed)
+6 Smeargle ExtremeSpeed vs. Dugtrio: 204-240 (183.7 - 216.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
but really why would anyone run sme?
 
snorlax
252 hp 0 att/def neutral nat
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Snorlax: 132-156 (49.4 - 58.4%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Snorlax Return vs. Dugtrio: 107-127 (96.3 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
 
 
starmie
4hp Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Starmie: 107-126 (78.6 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252hp Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Starmie: 107-126 (64 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Starmie Surf vs. Dugtrio: 183-216 (164.8 - 194.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
tauros (jolly 252 att no cb 4hp)
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Tauros: 97-115 (64.2 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Tauros Return vs. Dugtrio: 125-148 (112.6 - 133.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
ursaring 
4hp  Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Ursaring: 118-139 (71 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 hp Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Ursaring: 118-139 (59.8 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Ursaring Return vs. Dugtrio: 165-195 (148.6 - 175.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
venasaur (252 hp no standard set)
Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Venusaur: 109-129 (58.2 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Venusaur Giga Drain vs. Dugtrio: 117-138 (105.4 - 124.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(yes that is 75 power giga)
 
so dug can trap and kill
arcanine (if no cb/howl)
exeggutor (if hp bug dug)

houndoom

jynx

rhydon (37.5% chance if 4hp)

smeargle

and several UU/NU's

 

that is 6/34 available OU pokemon that cb dug can trap and kill and only 3 reliably. while there are some UU pokemon dug can trap and kill that are sometimes used in ou like magneton, i chose to draw the line for my calcs at OU cause this already took 1 1/2 hours and i dont have all day. point of all this is dugtrio is a great revenge killer but nerfed how it is it can not fufill the support functions it was banned for (killing all the special walls) and has trouble killing anything at all without support. 

 

[/spoiler]

While definitively banned for the support characteristic for it's ability to remove Special walls, there still lies the conception of Dugtrio being the absolute best and risk-free revenge killer there is -- especially considering there's no Aerodactyl/Jolteon as well. Dugtrio doesn't have to do the damage on it's own -- it waits for an adequate opportunity to kill a target on a safe switch, for example. Even then, Dugtrio's ability to secure a KO on an although now limited but still available variety of Pokemon is also "support" in some sense. Dugtrio in a stall team supports by removing Magneton for Skarmory, etc. From the banning definition: The pure (but in this tournament, nerfed) strength in Dugtrio's ability to support it's team is why it's far too good for OU, beyond the fact that trapping abilities are inherently uncompetitive due to the opponent lacking any sort of counterplay to them, meaning the only answer to Dugtrio is to not get trapped at all, forcing tremendous pressure on the non-Dugtrio user. Beyond this, it can also trap and KO basically any grounded low HP pokemon, thanks to it's absurdly high speed (and the highest tied with Alakazam which can't be used here and, well, misses only on Crobat)

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Calcs

 

While definitively banned for the support characteristic for it's ability to remove Special walls, there still lies the conception of Dugtrio being the absolute best and risk-free revenge killer there is -- especially considering there's no Aerodactyl/Jolteon as well. Dugtrio doesn't have to do the damage on it's own -- it waits for an adequate opportunity to kill a target on a safe switch, for example. Even then, Dugtrio's ability to secure a KO on an although now limited but still available variety of Pokemon is also "support" in some sense. Dugtrio in a stall team supports by removing Magneton for Skarmory, etc. From the banning definition: The pure (but in this tournament, nerfed) strength in Dugtrio's ability to support it's team is why it's far too good for OU, beyond the fact that trapping abilities are inherently uncompetitive due to the opponent lacking any sort of counterplay to them, meaning the only answer to Dugtrio is to not get trapped at all, forcing tremendous pressure on the non-Dugtrio user. Beyond this, it can also trap and KO basically any grounded low HP pokemon, thanks to it's absurdly high speed (and the highest tied with Alakazam which can't be used here and, well, misses only on Crobat)

 

This pretty much.

 

Additionally, assuming that the Pokemon that Dugtrio comes in on has already lost 50% of its HP and has no current stat changes, Dugtrio becomes an instant kill button for a large percentage of OU.

 

[spoiler]

Chansey dies.
Granbull dies.
Hariyama dies.
Houndoom dies.
Jynx dies.
Kangaskhan dies.
Kingdra dies.
Machamp dies.
Marowak dies.
Rhydon dies.
Scizor dies.
Slowking dies.
Smeargle dies.
Starmie dies.
Tauros dies.
Ursaring dies.
Venusaur dies.

Snorlax most likely dies.
Blissey might die.
Lapras might die.

Exeggutor dies if no sun.
Arcanine dies if not locked into Extremespeed with Choice Band.
Alakazam dies if it loses the speed tie.

Slaking survives.
Slowbro survives.
Dusclops survives.

[/spoiler]

 

17/26 Pokemon don't stand a chance, and many don't even need to be as low as 50%.

3/9 have only a small chance of survival, and 31 HP/DEF can't be expected for this event so they're pretty much dead unless they're flawless.

3/6 more die unless their current situation is favourable or they're lucky.

That leaves only three Pokemon that are (barely) guaranteed to survive a Choice Banded Dugtrio's attack from half HP, two of which are extremely slow and the other with Truant. Slaking pretty much dies if Dugtrio comes in as a revenge killer since Slaking gets hit twice before it can move, and Slowbro/Dusclops are far too slow to be able to heal themselves or even switch in again unless they're immune to the move. Basically, no Pokemon on half HP is going to appreciate a Dugtrio coming in on them as they either outright die or are on such low HP that they're not likely to be useful again and are probably better off sacked.

 

Since it doesn't have to Sub to 1HP to be useful, Dugtrio can retreat once it has done its job and come back later to do it again without being in any way weaker. While it's true that it doesn't KO much from full HP, it does an excellent job picking off weakened Pokemon and can do so multiple times in a match. It's arguably not as game breaking without Reversal (although it still does what it does insanely well), but I don't see a good reason to unban it for this event either since it's still extremely uncompetitive. You can still use Diglett though.

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I feel sad for the 31 participants who will not win this. CatchMMO is so much more grinding than actual breeding...


The event is enjoyable for anyone, win or loss. The reason of adorement of this tournament varies with participant, but some people actually enjoy the effort placed into the tournament. You'll learn to love it eventually if you participate.
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The event is enjoyable for anyone, win or loss. The reason of adorement of this tournament varies with participant, but some people actually enjoy the effort placed into the tournament. You'll learn to love it eventually if you participate.

Gave up after 20-30 crappy Staryus.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I understand the pokemon you trade for, but I'm a bit curious as to why the fossils and starters from oak and pokemon from game corner, the lapras and stuff like that are just given to you are banned, do they have some kind of strange tag in the caught/met tab where you can't differentiate between them and a bred pokemon?


Also to those interested, not to hijack this thread, perhaps bring more interest in it. Don't throw your stuff away when its over. Going to try and make it a normal thing via unofficials after this is over, following pretty much the same format you see here.

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I understand the pokemon you trade for, but I'm a bit curious as to why the fossils and starters from oak and pokemon from game corner, the lapras and stuff like that are just given to you are banned, do they have some kind of strange tag in the caught/met tab where you can't differentiate between them and a bred pokemon?

 

Pokemon that have been obtained without breeding will mention "met at lvl xx at xxx" where xxx specifies the location, under the notes tab. For your starters it will say met at lvl 5 pallet town, for lapras it will say met at lvl 25 silph co.

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I understand the pokemon you trade for, but I'm a bit curious as to why the fossils and starters from oak and pokemon from game corner, the lapras and stuff like that are just given to you are banned, do they have some kind of strange tag in the caught/met tab where you can't differentiate between them and a bred pokemon?

Also to those interested, not to hijack this thread, perhaps bring more interest in it. Don't throw your stuff away when its over. Going to try and make it a normal thing via unofficials after this is over, following pretty much the same format you see here.

These Pokemon aren't actually caught - they're either gift Pokemon that players could alt run to get good ones of (especially in the case of starters) or they're bought, which gives a big advantage to the wealthy. Additionally, in the case of fossils etc, players can't obtain them in any way except for alt runs, which isn't exactly a good thing. Mostly though, being given something or buying it from the game corner goes a bit against the theme of catching Pokemon. All gift Pokemon have unique met locations that will be checked for, which are all in the banned Pokemon list (except for Eevee/fossils that are just flat banned due to no wild spawns). The difference between caught and bred Pokemon is that one states "met" with the level that they were caught on and the other states "hatched" with no level.

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