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[UU Discussion] Slowking (Banned from UU to BL)


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After doing a quick read through here and also watching Slowking in action at the recent UU tournament, I have decided that Slowking may actually be healthy for our meta. It's unique typing and access to instant recovery causes players to expand team building and forces them to take into account a pokemon which resists STAB Fighting attacks, something our tier severely lacks. If you're concerned about it's ability to set-up and sweep well look no further than at it's two primary checks, Crawdaunt and Sharpedo. One is capable of sweeping your entire team with Dragon Dance so using a Slowking puts you at a severe disadvantage there. Sharpedo is an excellent Choice Bander and has an impressive movepool for our meta. Several other checks were mentioned before, and if you choose not to bring either of these pokes you can carry a phaser or simply use Toxic to force it out. 

 

Slowking is a premier wall in our tier and will see higher usage the more people realize this. Despite this it is not unbreakable, nor is it overpowered to the point of sweeping everything in sight like Espeon potentially could. It's speed leaves it weak to every CB user in the game with the majority of those being able to 2HKO it. Curse or Iron Defense can be a pain in the ass for CB users but this is easily remedied by using status or an attack-boosting move like Swords Dance or Dragon Dance. 

 

Ultimately it's up to the UU council to decide on this, but I just wanted to leave my thoughts here to help with that decision. Thanks for reading guys. Take care. 

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Slowking will be sitting in UU for now. It doesn't have as easy of a time setting up and sweeping as it may seem to some. It is also a nice check to some of the powerhouses, in a way healthy for the meta. I think it fits nicely, if anybody disagrees and has a valid argument please speak up.

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Slowking will be sitting in UU for now. It doesn't have as easy of a time setting up and sweeping as it may seem to some. It is also a nice check to some of the powerhouses, in a way healthy for the meta. I think it fits nicely, if anybody disagrees and has a valid argument please speak up.

Defensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it is able to wall and stall out a significant portion of the metagame.

 

imo slowking fits definition this perfectly. very few things can counter all sets and ALL of the things that can counter most/all sets are fragile with no healing. 

 

toxic only works if no rest and even then status isnt really a counter. crab/sharky have trouble with signal beam and cant beat the uber stall set. sword dance wall breakers DO exist but are rare and all have the same problems trying to heal. slowking is very good at coming back and healing off damage very easily and in order to truely counter these types of walls you need to be able to switch in multiple times and force them out, not just once or twice like all of slowkings counters.

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Defensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it is able to wall and stall out a significant portion of the metagame.

 

imo slowking fits definition this perfectly. very few things can counter all sets and ALL of the things that can counter most/all sets are fragile with no healing. 

 

toxic only works if no rest and even then status isnt really a counter. crab/sharky have trouble with signal beam and cant beat the uber stall set. sword dance wall breakers DO exist but are rare and all have the same problems trying to heal. slowking is very good at coming back and healing off damage very easily and in order to truely counter these types of walls you need to be able to switch in multiple times and force them out, not just once or twice like all of slowkings counters.

 

First off, if you carry Signal Beam to stop Sharpedo, Crawdaunt, and Shiftry (forgot to add it earlier), then you are losing one of your very important stabs. If you decide to drop Psychic (the more likely option), then you suddenly open yourself up to becoming set-up bait for Altaria which is growing in popularity. Trading Signal Beam for Psychic honestly isn't that big of a loss in our meta, but it does come with some significant consequences. 

 

Umbreon poops on you with Mean Look + Taunt + Toxic. Which is going to be one of its predominant sets to beat Chansey and a few other things. 

Edited by DoubleJ
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On paper, it might look like Slowking has a move to answer to any threat. However, unlike offensive threats, very defensive pokmeon are easier to scout (i.e. at a smaller risk). The only way it becomes "unbreakable" is if it carries Calm Mind, which leaves it with 2 coverage moves. Thanks to the awesome variety the UU gave us, there are no 2 moves that cover all the threats, so I think Slowking is pretty balanced.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Slowking, Slowbro's kinglier brother.

With the availability of Slack Off and great defensive typing, this king can switch in on almost any physical hit and just shrug off the damage as if it's nothing.

Combine that with Calm Mind to boost it's already stellar Special Defense and mediocre Special Attack, how can you take it down?

Sure, it may lack the coverage because of those two moves, but man can it wall and stall.

Toxic seems to be an answer in a 1v1, Encore and Taunt can also cripple it as well as a handful of counters in the form of Crawdaunt, Sharpedo, Exeggutor (if we assume it does not run signal beam).

But the usage stats don't lie, it's currently one of the best (if not hands down the best) physical walls in the UU meta and can even function as special wall after one Calm Mind.

 

Do you believe it's UU? Or would you rather see it banned to BL (OU)? The UU Council is still undecided on this pokemon and we hope to get some help from you guys to make a decision. Please post in a constructive and reasoning based manner if you feel Slowking should stay or go.

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  • 2 weeks later...

so no more umbreon to toxic/taunt king and miltank can come and set up no more on king either. lets get this conversation restarted. what does everyone else think about king?

 

I see few pokemon other than chansey that can actually deal with every possible slowking set. With that said, there are a few other ways to deal with it once you know it's set, and it is always weak to toxic. I feel like toxic would be more relevant if swellow was not a thing though, since swellow becomes a monster with a guts boost.

 

Clearly, slowking is one of the best pokemon in UU, and almost a necessity on most teams just to stop scizor. I feel like scizor, and maybe slowking, are banworthy. I think it would be interesting to ban scizor first and see if slowking will remain popular afterwards.

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so no more umbreon to toxic/taunt king and miltank can come and set up no more on king either. lets get this conversation restarted. what does everyone else think about king?

 

If we ban Slowking, we need to ban Scizor as well, but that's another point to be discussed later.

 

One thing that needs to be discussed are the few counters Slowking has. The only pokemon that are safe to switch in that come to mind are Chansey and Clefable, with both having to carry Toxic. Bulky Altaria with Haze is a decent check, as well as the powerful Crawdaunt and Sharpedo duo. Unfortunately proper scouting can result in you losing either of those checks with an Ice Beam to Altaria or Signal Beam to the Dark fishies. Toxic use with Chansey or Clefable is just asking for Scizor to come in and set-up on you. Fortunately Clef has enough special attack to run Flamethrower to threaten Scizor, unlike Chansey.

 

Another risk of Toxic use is GUTS Swellow which can come in and soak up the Toxic, threatening everything with GUTS-Boosted STAB CB attacks. 

 

Right now Slowking is pretty limited, but a creative player that doesn't run the standard Surf + Psychic combo can really do some damage. The most threatening set is still Calm Mind + Slack Off that will force switches and act as a pivot hoping to establish an opportunity for teammate to set-up. 

 

As a support pokemon, it simply could be too much for the tier. As an offensive pokemon, not really. Defensively it has its holes, but it's still the best pokemon in the tier. 

 

My opinion: Ban it and follow-up with an immediate Scizor ban. 

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Does anyone need to refer to the BurntZebra VS KarimTheOne Match? If so, here is the video...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lKWCzErris&src_vid=PIyqCwrUrGQ&annotation_id=54ca509f-0000-2051-ab96-001a113d4b18&feature=iv

 

Slowking sponging off a SolarBeam: 1:51:46 - 1:52:32

 

Slowking taking a nice bit of damage from Lee's return: 38:51 - 38:59 (and that was on a critical)

 

SlowKing sponging Quag's EarthQuake: 59:40 - 59:43

 

 

If anyone needs to refer to the tape, you have my permission to. Part of my reasoning for filming these tournaments is for record keeping and the other part is for pure entertainment.

Edited by Bestfriendss
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Does anyone need to refer to the BurntZebra VS KarimTheOne Match? If so, here is the video...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lKWCzErris&src_vid=PIyqCwrUrGQ&annotation_id=54ca509f-0000-2051-ab96-001a113d4b18&feature=iv

 

Slowking sponging off a SolarBeam: 1:51:46 - 1:52:32

 

Slowking taking a nice bit of damage from Lee's return: 38:51 - 38:59 (and that was on a critical)

 

SlowKing sponging Quag's EarthQuake: 59:40 - 59:43

 

 

If anyone needs to refer to the tape, you have my permission to. Part of my reasoning for filming these tournaments is for record keeping and the other part is for pure entertainment.

this is the most helpful post i have ever seen you make in comp alley. would love to see more like this ^_^

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Video is a perfect example of why I don't play UU

 

I think that we should be worrying more about Hitmonlee than Scizor in the theoretical Slowking-less UU meta. With Slowking gone, fire types will have a better place in the meta due to their ability to mixed attack and threaten common Grass and Steel types like Steelix, Scizor, Vileplume and Breloom while Hitmonlee will lose its best check. Other common water types (Crawdaunt, Shark, Lanturn) suffer from physical flimsiness that would let a rogue EQ or fighting type attack deal considerable damage too them. I guess this is off topic.

 

From what I've seen Slowking is definitely "too good not to use" since it checks so many pokemon and can set up Calm Mind, benefit from abundant cleric support and cover almost every offensive and defensive threat in the tier with Surf/Psychic/Flame, barring Chansey, of course.

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Video is a perfect example of why I don't play UU

 

I think that we should be worrying more about Hitmonlee than Scizor in the theoretical Slowking-less UU meta. With Slowking gone, fire types will have a better place in the meta due to their ability to mixed attack and threaten common Grass and Steel types like Steelix, Scizor, Vileplume and Breloom while Hitmonlee will lose its best check. Other common water types (Crawdaunt, Shark, Lanturn) suffer from physical flimsiness that would let a rogue EQ or fighting type attack deal considerable damage too them. I guess this is off topic.

 

From what I've seen Slowking is definitely "too good not to use" since it checks so many pokemon and can set up Calm Mind, benefit from abundant cleric support and cover almost every offensive and defensive threat in the tier with Surf/Psychic/Flame, barring Chansey, of course.

 

Hitmonlee and scizor are quite different in that scizor only has one counter (slowking), and access to SD. Hitmonlee on the other hand still has checks like gligar and altaria, and even if you mispredict by switching in your vileplume on a blaze kick, you can wiggle out since hitmonlee is choice locked. The fire types you are talking about are pretty much limited to houndoom and flareon. Houndoom has been brought up to discussion, as it is already very strong. Flareon is slow and clumsy, not sure if it's going to dominate (although I'm not questioning its power).

 

Basically, a slowking ban should lead to an immediate scizor ban, since slowking is the only thing stopping it from breaking everything. Hitmonlee and flareon etc. should be looked at as the meta evolves.

 

I still think it would be interesting to ban scizor first, because in our current meta, slowking is forced to sponge off banded hits from the likes of hitmonlee and kabutops. This leaves little room for it to set up cm, and I would even go as far as to say that toxic is the better option right now.

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Hitmonlee and scizor are quite different in that scizor only has one counter (slowking), and access to SD. Hitmonlee on the other hand still has checks like gligar and altaria, and even if you mispredict by switching in your vileplume on a blaze kick, you can wiggle out since hitmonlee is choice locked. The fire types you are talking about are pretty much limited to houndoom and flareon. Houndoom has been brought up to discussion, as it is already very strong. Flareon is slow and clumsy, not sure if it's going to dominate (although I'm not questioning its power).

 

Basically, a slowking ban should lead to an immediate scizor ban, since slowking is the only thing stopping it from breaking everything. Hitmonlee and flareon etc. should be looked at as the meta evolves.

 

I still think it would be interesting to ban scizor first, because in our current meta, slowking is forced to sponge off banded hits from the likes of hitmonlee and kabutops. This leaves little room for it to set up cm, and I would even go as far as to say that toxic is the better option right now.

 

Idk thing about slowking is that it has access to slack off which provides instant recovery against powerful hits. So if you face kingler sd or banded azu, is there really anything that can handle those 2 w/o having to go for rest (aside from the obvious grass types altho there is really only 2)? W/o slowking i really dont see any viable bulky waters aside from toise and maybe quag. you could argue that walrein and lapras are bulky waters but imo there should be some reliable bulky waters that can take fighting moves. i dont see any other bulky water which can take a superpower from cb hitmonlee comfortably. making it harder to build teams at times. move it up to bl and it will never be used again lol

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