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NU Tier Discussion Request Thread


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15 minutes ago, Lazaro23 said:

I think you made a mistake giving rosella and eviolite.
Also bellossom gonna be on every team now, ain't that centralizing, being forced to run bellossom just because of raichu ?
Although it's obvious that whishcash can wall Raichu, but Hp grass 1hko it 

252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Whiscash: 220-260 (101.3 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Inb4 252hp 252 sp.def, as it is very rarely used, and if it will be now, it'll be obviously because of Raichu
  No it's UU now

 

bello was already not uncommon in nu, tho its usage will increase.

you did say hp ice not grass. without ice standard tangelo will but used to block it, roselia and bellosom have no fear on the switch in for it.

 

also I just saw max def glalie is a good answer as 0 Atk Life Orb Raichu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Glalie: 129-152 (35.4 - 41.7%) -- 80.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Raichu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Glalie: 165-196 (45.3 - 53.8%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Glalie: 120-142 (32.9 - 39%) -- 7.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

also hitmontop is not NU so -1 252 Atk Life Orb Raichu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 99-118 (32.5 - 38.8%) -- 4.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hitmontop: 92-109 (30.2 - 35.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Edited by Artemiseta
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6 hours ago, Lazaro23 said:

I think you made a mistake giving rosella and eviolite.
Also bellossom gonna be on every team now, ain't that centralizing, being forced to run bellossom just because of raichu ?
Although it's obvious that whishcash can wall Raichu, but Hp grass 1hko it 

252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Whiscash: 220-260 (101.3 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Inb4 252hp 252 sp.def, as it is very rarely used, and if it will be now, it'll be obviously because of Raichu
  No it's UU now

 

There isn't much for Raichu, well.. You could always Shedinja.

 

At least with Riachu it takes heavy recoil from Volt Tacke + Life Orb unlike I lot of other sweepers, so we'll have to see.

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6 hours ago, gbwead said:

Raichu can counter Raichu all day. 0 centralisation.

252+ Atk Life Orb Raichu ExtremeSpeed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Raichu: 82-97 (49.1 - 58%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Raichu Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Raichu: 94-111 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
All day, more like 1 turn
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1 minute ago, Lazaro23 said:
252+ Atk Life Orb Raichu ExtremeSpeed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Raichu: 82-97 (49.1 - 58%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Raichu Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Raichu: 94-111 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
All day, more like 1 turn

how many moves does your raichu have? Espeed return volt tackle surf hp ice hp grass - did I miss anything?

 

e: forgot that it's also naive with 252 speed, 252 attack and 252 sp att too

Edited by Gunthug
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1 minute ago, Gunthug said:

how many moves does your raichu have? Espeed return volt tackle surf hp ice hp grass - did I miss anything?

I'm stating all the possibilities, mate, and one should have as many
E: When you discuss a pokemon, you don't stick to 1 set, you discuss all the possible sets, and since you know how officials work ( scouting ), it won't be that hard to choose the ideal raichu you wanna use.
I'm reading the " Tier council " tag on your profile, are your arguments always " sarcasm " when discussing something ? 

Edited by Lazaro23
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3 minutes ago, Lazaro23 said:

I'm stating all the possibilities, mate, and one should have as many

There's nothing wrong with stating all the possibilities, but each and every time you list a certain raichu set, people are responding with answers, and you counter by simply changing the raichu's moveset. Yeah raichu is versatile and strong, but I think you said it best in your first post: If well played, it can sweep. That's not necessarily a bad thing for a sweeper - it's problematic when you don't have to play well and it can sweep easily anyways. Due to life orb recoil and raichu's trouble switching in on a lot, coupled with ability to be outsped and revenged by a lot of common scarfers, I don't think raichu rises to that level yet. But we'll have to wait and see a few Nu tourneys to get a good idea

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Calm down guys, there's no need to be uguuy. It's actually true and I see Raichus running Return or even Double Edge, it's a possibility you cannot exclude.

I'm honestly relieved about the usage movements for NU. Newcomers (heh) Blastoise, Top and Lapras can help handle Kingler and Sharpedo.

 

You focus a lot on Raichu, while the thing I'm really worried about, is Victreebel.

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11 minutes ago, Lazaro23 said:

I'm stating all the possibilities, mate, and one should have as many
E: When you discuss a pokemon, you don't stick to 1 set, you discuss all the possible sets, and since you know how officials work ( scouting ), it won't be that hard to choose the ideal raichu you wanna use.
I'm reading the " Tier council " tag on your profile, are your arguments always " sarcasm " when discussing something ? 

Lol I'm not sure where you got sarcasm from my original comment, but given your language barrier I'll just assume you misread it or something. Yes it's important to keep in mind all possible sets while discussing, but you can't just continually shift the sets to match your best case scenario when discussing counters. Much like sceptile can't run HP ice and Hp fire to hit both scizor and altaria in UU at the same time, raichu struggles with the same problem dealing with all of its answers.

 

And no, Scouting is not something to be taken into account during tiering. Both players can scout, so the argument can apply either way which is why we generally don't use it

4 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

Calm down guys, there's no need to be uguuy. It's actually true and I see Raichus running Return or even Double Edge, it's a possibility you cannot exclude.

I'm honestly relieved about the usage movements for NU. Newcomers (heh) Blastoise, Top and Lapras can help handle Kingler and Sharpedo.

 

You focus a lot on Raichu, while the thing I'm really worried about, is Victreebel.

No need for the tone police here. I wasn't saying raichu won't run return/double edge, just that Laazaro has mentioned 7-8 moves now to diffuse the answers people have come up with to deal with raichu.

 

Victreebel's usage is pretty uninspiring but I agree that on paper it looks like it could be trouble

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21 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

I love your highly developed argumentation

lyn with his alts

 

 

 

 

also

meta might start to get over centralized around blastoise , probs need data from the official tomorrow first

Edited by TJXD
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10 minutes ago, TJXD said:

lyn with his alts

 

 

 

 

also

meta might start to get over centralized around blastoise , probs need data from the official tomorrow first

yeah this is always my concern with blastoise, it'll never fall under offensive, defensive, or support uber but it always seems to be walking that line of unhealthiness/centralization, which is a total pain in the ass from a tiering perspective. Still, things like sharpedo and kingler were pretty scary before it came down so there is some good to the drop, at least at first

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46 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

You focus a lot on Raichu, while the thing I'm really worried about, is Victreebel.

Well Flareon checks Sunny Day set, Jumpluff can also come in Sunny Day and Encore it (But if opponent uses Sludge Bomb on predict then rip), some Vics run SD tho but that also means things like Tangela/Bello can check it (Unless mixed Sludge Bomb???), also since SD set doesn't benefit from chlorophyll, that means anything faster and with some offensive power can counter vic

Basically yes, Sunny Day Vic is scary af but don't forget it needs to set it up first and it doesn't get as many opportunities to do it as you think it would

Also SP Def Grumpig with Psychic can scare Sunny Vic, but tbh any smart person running Vic would probably pair it with Absol

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Gunt does have a point though. If you're going to call out every move that Raichu can use and every EV spread that's all well and good, but it wont be as meaningful of an argument as 1 solid moveset. Look at Nidoking, that thing literally can do everything.. Fortunately for us, it can only use 4 moves.

 

To be fair, did we ever have a sp wall that could handle Lapras? Even Hypno struggled with Lapras.

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2 minutes ago, KaynineXL said:

To be fair, did we ever have a sp wall that could handle Lapras? Even Hypno struggled with Lapras.

Well, Muk can't be Toxic'd and it tanks every move Lapras has to offer even if 252 Sp Att

Ig you can either stack Curses against Lapras or go Sub+Focus Punch

252+ SpA Lapras Surf vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Muk: 54-64 (29.8 - 35.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Muk Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Lapras: 194-230 (81.8 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

If you choose to run Rest on Muk than Brick Break should be fine

252+ Atk Muk Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Lapras: 98-116 (41.3 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Curse Muk against Bold Lapras

0 SpA Lapras Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Muk: 34-42 (16 - 19.8%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery

+3 0 Atk Muk Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lapras: 124-146 (52.3 - 61.6%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

But is Muk good with all the Ground spam in NU + Grumpig and shit? Idk

 

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