Artemiseta Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Lazaro23 said: I think you made a mistake giving rosella and eviolite. Also bellossom gonna be on every team now, ain't that centralizing, being forced to run bellossom just because of raichu ? Although it's obvious that whishcash can wall Raichu, but Hp grass 1hko it 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Whiscash: 220-260 (101.3 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO Inb4 252hp 252 sp.def, as it is very rarely used, and if it will be now, it'll be obviously because of Raichu No it's UU now bello was already not uncommon in nu, tho its usage will increase. you did say hp ice not grass. without ice standard tangelo will but used to block it, roselia and bellosom have no fear on the switch in for it. also I just saw max def glalie is a good answer as 0 Atk Life Orb Raichu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Glalie: 129-152 (35.4 - 41.7%) -- 80.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Life Orb Raichu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Glalie: 165-196 (45.3 - 53.8%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Glalie: 120-142 (32.9 - 39%) -- 7.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery also hitmontop is not NU so -1 252 Atk Life Orb Raichu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 99-118 (32.5 - 38.8%) -- 4.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hitmontop: 92-109 (30.2 - 35.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery Edited August 8, 2016 by Artemiseta gbwead 1 Link to comment
KaynineXL Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 6 hours ago, Lazaro23 said: I think you made a mistake giving rosella and eviolite. Also bellossom gonna be on every team now, ain't that centralizing, being forced to run bellossom just because of raichu ? Although it's obvious that whishcash can wall Raichu, but Hp grass 1hko it 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Whiscash: 220-260 (101.3 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO Inb4 252hp 252 sp.def, as it is very rarely used, and if it will be now, it'll be obviously because of Raichu No it's UU now There isn't much for Raichu, well.. You could always Shedinja. At least with Riachu it takes heavy recoil from Volt Tacke + Life Orb unlike I lot of other sweepers, so we'll have to see. gbwead 1 Link to comment
gbwead Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Raichu can counter Raichu all day. 0 centralisation. ShadowGary, KaynineXL, Parke and 1 other 4 Link to comment
KaynineXL Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 25 minutes ago, gbwead said: Raichu can counter Raichu all day. 0 centralisation. Lmao, love it. That's actually pretty good though, I mean.. Raichu could just sit there and wish all day and let the other Raichu hurt himself. Fun :) ShadowGary and gbwead 2 Link to comment
Kizhaz Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 ew Lapras is in NU again :/ ShadowGary, gbwead and lFrankiel 3 Link to comment
ShadowGary Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 2 minutes ago, Kizhaz said: ew Lapras is in NU again :/ Link to comment
pachima Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 -1 252 Atk Life Orb Raichu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mightyena: 64-75 (36.1 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO Give mightyena recover plz Otulp 1 Link to comment
lFrankiel Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 2 hours ago, Kizhaz said: ew Lapras is in NU again :/ And hitmontop , lets bring back hypno and NU would be a cancer like it was before xD Link to comment
OrangeManiac Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Specs looks really OP in NU right now. There might be some big decisions to be made. Link to comment
KaynineXL Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 54 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said: Specs looks really OP in NU right now. There might be some big decisions to be made. Specs is almost useless against Kecleon though which is like the main sp wall right now. Link to comment
Laz Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 6 hours ago, gbwead said: Raichu can counter Raichu all day. 0 centralisation. 252+ Atk Life Orb Raichu ExtremeSpeed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Raichu: 82-97 (49.1 - 58%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Life Orb Raichu Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Raichu: 94-111 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery All day, more like 1 turn Link to comment
Gunthug Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) 1 minute ago, Lazaro23 said: 252+ Atk Life Orb Raichu ExtremeSpeed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Raichu: 82-97 (49.1 - 58%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Life Orb Raichu Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Raichu: 94-111 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery All day, more like 1 turn how many moves does your raichu have? Espeed return volt tackle surf hp ice hp grass - did I miss anything? e: forgot that it's also naive with 252 speed, 252 attack and 252 sp att too Edited August 8, 2016 by Gunthug ShadowGary, KaynineXL, Parke and 1 other 4 Link to comment
Laz Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) 1 minute ago, Gunthug said: how many moves does your raichu have? Espeed return volt tackle surf hp ice hp grass - did I miss anything? I'm stating all the possibilities, mate, and one should have as many E: When you discuss a pokemon, you don't stick to 1 set, you discuss all the possible sets, and since you know how officials work ( scouting ), it won't be that hard to choose the ideal raichu you wanna use. I'm reading the " Tier council " tag on your profile, are your arguments always " sarcasm " when discussing something ? Edited August 8, 2016 by Lazaro23 Link to comment
Gunthug Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 3 minutes ago, Lazaro23 said: I'm stating all the possibilities, mate, and one should have as many There's nothing wrong with stating all the possibilities, but each and every time you list a certain raichu set, people are responding with answers, and you counter by simply changing the raichu's moveset. Yeah raichu is versatile and strong, but I think you said it best in your first post: If well played, it can sweep. That's not necessarily a bad thing for a sweeper - it's problematic when you don't have to play well and it can sweep easily anyways. Due to life orb recoil and raichu's trouble switching in on a lot, coupled with ability to be outsped and revenged by a lot of common scarfers, I don't think raichu rises to that level yet. But we'll have to wait and see a few Nu tourneys to get a good idea Link to comment
RysPicz Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Calm down guys, there's no need to be uguuy. It's actually true and I see Raichus running Return or even Double Edge, it's a possibility you cannot exclude. I'm honestly relieved about the usage movements for NU. Newcomers (heh) Blastoise, Top and Lapras can help handle Kingler and Sharpedo. You focus a lot on Raichu, while the thing I'm really worried about, is Victreebel. Laz 1 Link to comment
DestructX Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 i feel like theres no good special wall anymore since kecleon can't handle toxic lapras and nobody wants to run grumpig with absol around ShadowGary, Dukee and Laz 3 Link to comment
Gunthug Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 11 minutes ago, Lazaro23 said: I'm stating all the possibilities, mate, and one should have as many E: When you discuss a pokemon, you don't stick to 1 set, you discuss all the possible sets, and since you know how officials work ( scouting ), it won't be that hard to choose the ideal raichu you wanna use. I'm reading the " Tier council " tag on your profile, are your arguments always " sarcasm " when discussing something ? Lol I'm not sure where you got sarcasm from my original comment, but given your language barrier I'll just assume you misread it or something. Yes it's important to keep in mind all possible sets while discussing, but you can't just continually shift the sets to match your best case scenario when discussing counters. Much like sceptile can't run HP ice and Hp fire to hit both scizor and altaria in UU at the same time, raichu struggles with the same problem dealing with all of its answers. And no, Scouting is not something to be taken into account during tiering. Both players can scout, so the argument can apply either way which is why we generally don't use it 4 minutes ago, RysPicz said: Calm down guys, there's no need to be uguuy. It's actually true and I see Raichus running Return or even Double Edge, it's a possibility you cannot exclude. I'm honestly relieved about the usage movements for NU. Newcomers (heh) Blastoise, Top and Lapras can help handle Kingler and Sharpedo. You focus a lot on Raichu, while the thing I'm really worried about, is Victreebel. No need for the tone police here. I wasn't saying raichu won't run return/double edge, just that Laazaro has mentioned 7-8 moves now to diffuse the answers people have come up with to deal with raichu. Victreebel's usage is pretty uninspiring but I agree that on paper it looks like it could be trouble Link to comment
Torinnnnn Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 6 minutes ago, RysPicz said: You focus a lot on Raichu, while the thing I'm really worried about, is Victreebel. terrifying RysPicz 1 Link to comment
RysPicz Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Just now, Nobarsmcgee said: terrifying I love your highly developed argumentation Laz 1 Link to comment
TJXD Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) 21 minutes ago, RysPicz said: I love your highly developed argumentation lyn with his alts also meta might start to get over centralized around blastoise , probs need data from the official tomorrow first Edited August 8, 2016 by TJXD RysPicz 1 Link to comment
Gunthug Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 10 minutes ago, TJXD said: lyn with his alts also meta might start to get over centralized around blastoise , probs need data from the official tomorrow first yeah this is always my concern with blastoise, it'll never fall under offensive, defensive, or support uber but it always seems to be walking that line of unhealthiness/centralization, which is a total pain in the ass from a tiering perspective. Still, things like sharpedo and kingler were pretty scary before it came down so there is some good to the drop, at least at first RysPicz and TJXD 2 Link to comment
LifeStyle Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 46 minutes ago, RysPicz said: You focus a lot on Raichu, while the thing I'm really worried about, is Victreebel. Well Flareon checks Sunny Day set, Jumpluff can also come in Sunny Day and Encore it (But if opponent uses Sludge Bomb on predict then rip), some Vics run SD tho but that also means things like Tangela/Bello can check it (Unless mixed Sludge Bomb???), also since SD set doesn't benefit from chlorophyll, that means anything faster and with some offensive power can counter vic Basically yes, Sunny Day Vic is scary af but don't forget it needs to set it up first and it doesn't get as many opportunities to do it as you think it would Also SP Def Grumpig with Psychic can scare Sunny Vic, but tbh any smart person running Vic would probably pair it with Absol Link to comment
KaynineXL Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Gunt does have a point though. If you're going to call out every move that Raichu can use and every EV spread that's all well and good, but it wont be as meaningful of an argument as 1 solid moveset. Look at Nidoking, that thing literally can do everything.. Fortunately for us, it can only use 4 moves. To be fair, did we ever have a sp wall that could handle Lapras? Even Hypno struggled with Lapras. Link to comment
LifeStyle Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 2 minutes ago, KaynineXL said: To be fair, did we ever have a sp wall that could handle Lapras? Even Hypno struggled with Lapras. Well, Muk can't be Toxic'd and it tanks every move Lapras has to offer even if 252 Sp Att Ig you can either stack Curses against Lapras or go Sub+Focus Punch 252+ SpA Lapras Surf vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Muk: 54-64 (29.8 - 35.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Muk Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Lapras: 194-230 (81.8 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery If you choose to run Rest on Muk than Brick Break should be fine 252+ Atk Muk Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Lapras: 98-116 (41.3 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Curse Muk against Bold Lapras 0 SpA Lapras Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Muk: 34-42 (16 - 19.8%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery +3 0 Atk Muk Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lapras: 124-146 (52.3 - 61.6%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery But is Muk good with all the Ground spam in NU + Grumpig and shit? Idk Link to comment
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