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[NU Discussion] Granbull


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5 hours ago, Arimanius said:

It's usage

I know man. Just i love to touch to tier council or staff. Good to see you felt x)

 

Spoiler

But still its like a joke how donphan joins and leaves the tier while not being better than granbull and at here , we discussing granbul? Nope discussion is impossible. Coz already accepted that dog's power. Half of battles are switching pokes against granbul moves. In game, NU players have better predicts thanks to this pokemon hahaha.

 

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Even if Shuckle completely walled Granbull (which it doesn't), that would only be 1 safe switch in a tier composed of 50+ viable mons. I feel like I'm always forced to run stuff I wouldn't usually run just so that Granbull doesn't run over me, but then I lose to other pokes because I didn't prepare well enough for those.

It's really hard building a solid team in NU that wins against most stuff anyways, but having Granbull to deal with only makes it even worse.

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5 hours ago, LifeStyle said:

Oh did I mention the Careful Granbull set (Return, Bulk Up, Rest, Sleep Talk)? I've 6-0d and watched people 6-0 their opponents with that, it's a set used to break stall teams that lack Sableye/Shuckle which are the only hard counters to that set, even Solrock loses against it.

 

Hey man where are the credits for that?

 

But yeah I completely agree with how Granbull just shits all over stall teams. If you're running offense, you need to make sure that your lead is either Hyper Cutter or Specs in order to win that lead matchup, otherwise you're fucked. If you're running stall then you're still fucked. The CB set isn't that threatening because if you have a decent defensive core then you can play around it. It's the Bulk Up set that is super threatening especially when you don't know what kind of bulk up set it is (3 attacks or rest talk). I'd say it is definitely banworthy. 

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Plus : If Muk is quicker then Granbull (has more 5 base stat as far as I know) using Bold nature 252hp 252 def, Granbull only has 16.7% chance of 2HKO after Leftovers recovery, and beeing faster Muk can get a Sludge Bomb doing 26-32% damage and next turn using Explode to kill him... You lose him but you get away of Granbull

 

Edit - A Trick Metang could work, If beeing faster, locks him to FirePunch (and survives) the switching.

I do get is not a good option, but Granbull is not unstoppable at NU imo.

 

Edit 2 - Banette switching in on the expected Return beeing immunte then WoW him is just a good strategy I guess.. (could trick later, or mean look) so I think it could work

Edited by Tato99
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12 hours ago, Tato99 said:

Plus : If Muk is quicker then Granbull (has more 5 base stat as far as I know) using Bold nature 252hp 252 def, Granbull only has 16.7% chance of 2HKO after Leftovers recovery, and beeing faster Muk can get a Sludge Bomb doing 26-32% damage and next turn using Explode to kill him... You lose him but you get away of Granbull

 

Edit - A Trick Metang could work, If beeing faster, locks him to FirePunch (and survives) the switching.

I do get is not a good option, but Granbull is not unstoppable at NU imo.

 

Edit 2 - Banette switching in on the expected Return beeing immunte then WoW him is just a good strategy I guess.. (could trick later, or mean look) so I think it could work

tbh, the best check for granbull is Unown.

 Plus of unown vs muk:

If Unown is quicker than granbull (has more 3 base stat as far as I know) using Bold nature 244 hp 252 def (Speed granbull? please!!!) (And yeah, unown is cooler than Muk cause can invest 244 hp instead the 252 needed for muk without a difference, Unown is cool like that), Granbull only has 30.5% of... wait nevermind, 

Granbull Earthquake vs. Levitate Unown: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time
 
I know what you are thinking: woah, this guy switches in against returnless and crunchless granbull like a boss. (That´s Unown for you)
Better yet, Unown doesnt even need to be faster than Granbull to laugh at everything such granbull can throw against it. And to top it all, Unown also doesnt need to explode on Granbull´s face- You get away of Granbull and you dont lose a pokemon
 
 But there´s more:
Unown is such a beast against Granbull that it doesnt need trick to lock granbull into fire punch. Since trick is for the feared bulk up set, watch this:
Granbull Earthquake vs. Levitate Unown: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time
 
You might be wondering, thats the same calc as before ...
WRONG!!! You are nothing but experiencing the true power of Unown. Even at + 6, Earthquake from this thug deals nothing more than 0 health points. Needless to say Hidden power is all Unown needs and will ever need against the likes of such joke of a dog.
 
 Finally, Some smart people will realize how op unown is, and I can´t blame them. Thus, they come up with the strategies to bring it down to his knees.
If you scroll through Granbull´s moveset, you can see it is able to learn shadow ball. Rip banette, has to go bold to resist earthquake, but then shadow ball tears it apart. But fear not because Unown´s power is limitless. Unlike those 3 Pokemon (Mock, Lamang, Lanette) - Yeah, they are so bad compared to this I can´t even spell them right , Unown has a special ability in his sleeve. The power of shifting the 252 evs from defense into Special defense.  
But wait, dropping its defense will leave it vulnerable to earthquake, right?
Granbull Earthquake vs. Levitate Unown: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time
 
WRONG! Unown is so amazing it doesn´t need defense at all to tank them earthquakes.
 
But what about shadow ball?
0 SpA Granbull Shadow Ball vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Unown: 44-54 (28.5 - 35%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Even without the full hp investment, Granbull can´t help but to fail a certain 4hko. (WITH A SUPER EFFECTIVE MOVE - top this banette)
 
With this in mind, Tanking Granbull is as easy as it could be.
 
PS:
Use such unown against standard Granbull at your own risk. Hidden powers come in different colours and powers, but you have to buy them separated, but don´t worry, Unown is so cool it can have every single type of hidden powers available. EVEN FIGHTING!!!  So, even if you face a standard granbull, Unown is still more viable than Muk, Banette, and Metang
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Sableye is a good option, as immune to Normal.. 

252+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 77-91 (49 - 57.9%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 58-69 (36.9 - 43.9%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

You can play with Knock Off (taking that choice band) and protect to do the extra leftovers recovery. 

It also has acess to Recover/Moonligth to regain health and or PainSplit to put that Granbull in bad hands.

Endure + Pain Split with choice knocked + Recover is a no attack set but deals well with Granbull and has some utility versus other pokes...


What are your thougths?

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9 minutes ago, Tatozito said:

Sableye is a good option, as immune to Normal.. 

252+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 77-91 (49 - 57.9%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Granbull Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 58-69 (36.9 - 43.9%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

You can play with Knock Off (taking that choice band) and protect to do the extra leftovers recovery. 

It also has acess to Recover/Moonligth to regain health and or PainSplit to put that Granbull in bad hands.

Endure + Pain Split with choice knocked + Recover is a no attack set but deals well with Granbull and has some utility versus other pokes...


What are your thougths?

Ok, seriously now. 

The problem here lies in the fact your best shot at checking granbull is a high chance of 2hko, with sableye.

Granbull can literally 2hko the whole tier, and that´s not healthy.

Even if you found some few and shaky checks, which you didn´t. (All your attempts to check this beast fail in some scenarios) there would be a huge overcentralization around this dog. However, its even worse and there is not even overcentralization while checking it cause there´s nothing that can safely check it.

Sableye can somewhat work around, but it still fails for bulk up sets, I guess.

 

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1 minute ago, pachima said:

Ok, seriously now. 

The problem here lies in the fact your best shot at checking granbull is a high chance of 2hko, with sableye.

Granbull can literally 2hko the whole tier, and that´s not healthy.

Even if you found some few and shaky checks, which you didn´t. (All your attempts to check this beast fail in some scenarios) there would be a huge overcentralization around this dog. However, its even worse and there is not even overcentralization while checking it cause there´s nothing that can safely check it.

Sableye can somewhat work around, but it still fails for bulk up sets, I guess.

 

Simply run Physc Up or Trick him or even more simply Taunt.

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Not to be offensive, but when someone says to run psych up to stop a threat, its time to ban it.

At OU, while snorlax was up, everyone was using the same thing over and over again.

We don´t want that in NU because of granbull. The sole fact you want to make a psych up mon just for granbull shows how strong it is.

Also, no taunt user can withstand easily any of granbull´s moves.

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Just now, NikhilR said:

Sableye is more likely to be slower than granbull, so the taunt + psych up would happen after Granbull launches a hit. 

Sableye has 50 base speed;

Granbull has 45 base speed;

 

Assuming that Granbull doesn't invest on speed (wich most likely don't) Sableye goes first with 30IV speed;

Granbull would need 31Speed IV and 36evs to hit 70 speed that is Sableye's 30IV 0 Ev Speed

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Just now, Tatozito said:

Sableye has 50 base speed;

Granbull has 45 base speed;

 

Assuming that Granbull doesn't invest on speed (wich most likely don't) Sableye goes first with 30IV speed;

Granbull would need 31Speed IV and 36evs to hit 70 speed that is Sableye's 30IV 0 Ev Speed

The difference is that most Granbulls need speed investment in order to outspeed certain pokemon. So I can guarantee you that they will have speed investment, and sometimes even max. Whereas if Sableye wants to handle Granbull, it can NEVER run speed investment. 

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2 minutes ago, pachima said:

Not to be offensive, but when someone says to run psych up to stop a threat, its time to ban it.

At OU, while snorlax was up, everyone was using the same thing over and over again.

We don´t want that in NU because of granbull. The sole fact you want to make a psych up mon just for granbull shows how strong it is.

Also, no taunt user can withstand easily any of granbull´s moves.

Thats true don't get me wrong... I'm here just thinking in ways and ways to stop it, so it clearly has much power on this Tier. Even if theres a counter that does the job nicely (can't get it perfect), Granbull is kinda OP here

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