RysPicz Posted October 2, 2022 Share Posted October 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Requi said: Thoughts on Espeon? 7 minutes ago, Huargensy said: dugtrio Quinn010 1 Link to comment
AwaXGoku Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 Since we get get the assault vest update , is it possible to get back draco meteor on hydreigon ? And with the addition of the HA is it also possible to get the real power of outrage ? since our meta will probably make time to adapt with all these news stuff and our system of tiering with usage, we can test all the stuff that were previously banned/remove (hello wobbufet) Link to comment
suigin Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 I don't think we want buffed outrage with a potential Multiscale Dnite and Moxiemence without stuff like Jirachi or Latios around. epicdavenport, AwaXGoku and HumongousNoodle 3 Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 With the HA drops and the addition of Assault Vest, is there any thought to bringing back Draco Meteor on Hydreigon? I still feel Swords Dance Garchomp is just a nuke that has no answer but Draco might be possible to reintroduce. Thoughts? Fenken, AwaXGoku, Quinn010 and 4 others 5 2 Link to comment
CanadaSorry Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 That seems fairly reasonable to me, at least worth trying out since the stall metagame has had a bunch of help lately. Link to comment
suigin Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 3 hours ago, DoubleJ said: With the HA drops and the addition of Assault Vest, is there any thought to bringing back Draco Meteor on Hydreigon? I still feel Swords Dance Garchomp is just a nuke that has no answer but Draco might be possible to reintroduce. Thoughts? Chomp now has to deal with Quagsire who is probably gonna become a Stall staple, I'd say test that one first. RysPicz, DoubleJ and SacredDiver 3 Link to comment
SacredDiver Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 +1 for bringing back Draco on Hydreigon, at the very least a complex ban for the move in conjunction with Nasty Plot instead of having it removed completely. Link to comment
RysPicz Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 I'd just re-introduce both Chomp and Hydrei to see how they will do in AV + HA metagame. Also we will be getting Regenerator mons at some point (?) so we will really need some tools to combat stall. PoseidonWrath 1 Link to comment
LifeStyleNORE Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 Absolute no for Chomp, it's already hands down the best mon in OU. It doesn't need a buff. Hydreigon I'm also not too sure about, nothing switches to Specs Draco besides the blobs. SacredDiver, suigin, DoubleJ and 3 others 2 1 3 Link to comment
gbwead Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 I think it's best to wait for everything to be added in order to get a clear picture of the new OU metagame and how Gachomp/Hydreigon fit in that metagame with or without getting buffed. DoubleJ and SacredDiver 2 Link to comment
SweeTforU Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 Bring back both!!! EmilioGarras, AwaXGoku, Matthzinxl and 1 other 1 2 1 Link to comment
PoseidonWrath Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 (edited) As for right now, for SD garchomp we got mons like Unaware Quagsire/Clef. Sableye with Prankster. Ditto imposter/Weavile (pairing it with a teleport support). And ofc Serperior that at least can outspeed and potentionally revenge kill it. For Hydreigon DMeteor, i really think the current AV users are terrible to handle Hydreigon Specs for example: 252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 100 HP / 156 SpD Assault Vest Mienshao: 130-154 (84.9 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO 252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 132-156 (63.7 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO l`m more confident about SD garchomp then about adding back hydreigon with DMeteor. l think we need to wait abit for more HA`s to be released Edited October 29, 2022 by PoseidonWrath razimove, Fenken, SuperBXdanielo and 5 others 5 1 1 1 Link to comment
suigin Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 Draco Hydrei will only stop being overwhelmingly strong when we get Latios or Latias to complain about their bullshit instead lol HumongousNoodle and DoubleJ 2 Link to comment
razimove Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 55 minutes ago, suigin said: Draco Hydrei will only stop being overwhelmingly strong when we get Latios or Latias to complain about their bullshit instead lol Heatran + fairy type clefable ezpz Why are we exactly discussing chomp SD/draco hydra exactly before the meta gets more stable? We havent even gotten all the HAs that they are releasing iirc DoubleJ 1 Link to comment
suigin Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 Just now, razimove said: Heatran + fairy type clefable ezpz Why are we exactly discussing chomp SD/draco hydra exactly before the meta gets more stable? We havent even gotten all the HAs that they are releasing iirc Tbh chomp's issue was that stall/defensive players had to run hot garbage like umbreon to barely check it and there was nothing else they could do. Quag covers so much for defensive teams that surely there's no complains about SD being restored. PoseidonWrath 1 Link to comment
gbwead Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 2 minutes ago, suigin said: Tbh chomp's issue was that stall/defensive players had to run hot garbage like umbreon to barely check it and there was nothing else they could do. Quag covers so much for defensive teams that surely there's no complains about SD being restored. I don't really agree. Chomp was an issue for all playsyles. Offense really had nothing to revenge kill it and stall had nothing to wall it. DoubleJ 1 Link to comment
razimove Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 (edited) 53 minutes ago, gbwead said: I don't really agree. Chomp was an issue for all playsyles. Offense really had nothing to revenge kill it and stall had nothing to wall it. I disagree a bit, there were stuff able to revenge kill it, but not reliably, and some like scarf cloysters, were being picked up to deal with it and also suicide leads, the main problem is that SD chomp has arguably no answers on the meta besides some obscure picks like umbreon. When it got on field it pressured too much through substitute, sd on a wall (which honestly.if people are going to use the teleport argument, it works both ways, he can also get on the field from a chansey tp), youd always be playing pressured by it. And no, ditto cant rko, Id have to calc but weavile isnt a fool proof answer either assuming 2 spear hits on sub chomp probably (gotta calc this one, mobile rn), it would still be problematic nowadays and force stall to run quagsire, or back to obscure picks like umbreon Edited October 29, 2022 by razimove Edit:deleted part of what I wrote somehow suigin and PoseidonWrath 1 1 Link to comment
AwaXGoku Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 I think if we still arguing with "we just need to wait before all HA are released " we will get stuck for a good moment. SD chomp is broken but one the main argument wasnt because of sand vail iirc ? Specs hydreigon is absolutly a strong mon in our OU meta but is it really broken ? i mean it can easily be revenge killed by a lot of things i dont have problem to see both coming back in OU but if chomp can still run sand vail im against the return of SD on him ps: i hope we wont forget to ban serperior Link to comment
caioxlive13 Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 1 hour ago, AwaXGoku said: I think if we still arguing with "we just need to wait before all HA are released " we will get stuck for a good moment. SD chomp is broken but one the main argument wasnt because of sand vail iirc ? Specs hydreigon is absolutly a strong mon in our OU meta but is it really broken ? i mean it can easily be revenge killed by a lot of things i dont have problem to see both coming back in OU but if chomp can still run sand vail im against the return of SD on him ps: i hope we wont forget to ban serperior Dude... Now with infiltrator crobat we can't use subseed. Imposter Ditto is now fixed.... We have more tools to deal with Serp, so WHY STILL INSIST ON BAN HIM? suigin 1 Link to comment
razimove Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, AwaXGoku said: I think if we still arguing with "we just need to wait before all HA are released " we will get stuck for a good moment. SD chomp is broken but one the main argument wasnt because of sand vail iirc ? Specs hydreigon is absolutly a strong mon in our OU meta but is it really broken ? i mean it can easily be revenge killed by a lot of things i dont have problem to see both coming back in OU but if chomp can still run sand vail im against the return of SD on him ps: i hope we wont forget to ban serperior Sand veil was and still is part of chomp problems, but that being said, chomp is almost a jack of all trades, even in gen8 where sand veil has no usage, chomp is still relevant, and able to answer stuff like urshifus etc. Good offensive movepool and decent supportive movepool too. The problem itself was SD and how hard it was to effectively deal with it post SD, you'd have to sac something to get a revenge killer in generally speaking. Too much offensive pressure on its own with SD. Im also unsure if a serp ban is needed, but id love to see serp being somehow tweaked with. 3 hours ago, caioxlive13 said: Dude... Now with infiltrator crobat we can't use subseed. Imposter Ditto is now fixed.... We have more tools to deal with Serp, so WHY STILL INSIST ON BAN HIM? Cause neither of those really do shit vs serp long term, serp has a whole rng layer that makes him broken, subseed wasnt really a thing ever, niche set, decent, but niche. Its generally glare +3 attacks, glare/sub+2 attacks. Crobat does help a lot with dealing with him, or even golbat which might be more reliable depending on the match up, but they dont solve the problem as a whole, you gotta rely on stuff like having a teleport user, to safely get bat in etc. Edited October 30, 2022 by razimove Typos AwaXGoku and SuperBXdanielo 2 Link to comment
suigin Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 Sand Veil made chomp broken vs offense, one ice move miss from one of the few things that could outspeed it spelled doom for the offensive team. SD made it broken vs defensive teams. Quag now can handle that comfortably though. AwaXGoku and razimove 2 Link to comment
gbwead Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 Sand Veil was irrelevant. Garchomp SD was broken even when Sand Veil was disabled. Please stop with the revisionist history and the sheep talk regarding every single uncompetitive aspect in this game. It's not constructive and it's getting old. DoubleJ, SuperBXdanielo and AwaXGoku 3 Link to comment
suigin Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 1 hour ago, gbwead said: Sand Veil was irrelevant. Garchomp SD was broken even when Sand Veil was disabled. Please stop with the revisionist history and the sheep talk regarding every single uncompetitive aspect in this game. It's not constructive and it's getting old. Just because it was something you didn't experience as you were tinkering with Weezing and Mandibuzz instead of playing offense it doesn't mean it didn't happen (it also happens to this day after SD got removed). Both aspects made the Pokemon busted. razimove 1 Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 Sorry for the disturbance in the force y'all. But good discussion. I think we have more tools to handle both and often adding more chaos amid chaos is better than trying to drop it in something set in stone. Although the calcs shown are still quite impressive. Heatran when?! SweeTforU, CanadaSorry and suigin 3 Link to comment
gbwead Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, suigin said: Just because it was something you didn't experience as you were tinkering with Weezing and Mandibuzz instead of playing offense it doesn't mean it didn't happen (it also happens to this day after SD got removed). Both aspects made the Pokemon busted. I play every playstyle and Sand Veil, even though it can be annoying, had no meaningful impact in making Garchomp uber at any point in time. When Garchomp lost SD and Sand Veil got reactivated, Garchomp was considered S tier, but never banworthy. That's because Sand Veil is annoying, but meaningless. I'm personally fine with Garchomp SD being retested. However, if it gets retested, please don't pollute tier discussions with Sand Veil non sense. Sand Veil is bad and it should not be discussed in the competitive alley. I believe there are great arguments to get Sand Veil removed from a game design perspective since it would make the game more enjoyable for everyone, but in no point in time was Sand Veil ever busted in PokeMMO PvP or required tiering intervention. Edited October 30, 2022 by gbwead Link to comment
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