blankf4ce
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Posts posted by blankf4ce
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1 minute ago, WildHodor said:
On mobile so its a bit hard to quote better but on topic:
inflation was a big problem of the game und battling it the right decision. As for the way the devs did this, with berry and item nerfs of course it had to attack methods which really generate yen and not just trade yen, so selling berries to npcs and battling npcs.
From a noneconomic but gaming side it also makes sense to change items like lucky egg and coin amulett as these were permanent items which would never leave the game again. So additionally to prevent crashing the market with god knows how many eggs in some peoples bags the change also gave reason to farm both of them again.
As for the argument of getting less money thats how you fight inflation by making incoming cashflows smaller than outgoing cashflows. But if you look at the gtl you will notice many items, breeders and comps are already cheaper and easier to get due to money being more rare. The only question is if npc items also get less expensive as soon as enough money has left the market.
About p2w not much has changed. You could sell stuff from gift shop before and know its made easier to trade or buy without real money. But as soon as people realize that less money is generated by npcs these items will also fall in price, giving less yen to people who sell them. So in the end not more p2w then before.
Hope this was understandable, am on mobile and didnt check for grammar and stuff
idc about grammar it's all good, I agree that they fought inflation in the best way possible, but I don't think it was a problem to begin with. I even made a suggestion post right before the update was made with an idea of making the lucky egg consumable, but for an added use at an egg move tutor to increase its use, since it was nerfed to oblivion before, and still very difficult to actually obtain. I was told it was fine the way it was, then they changed it. There's nothing wrong with having permanent items from a gaming perspective, in my opinion it enhances the experience, as you don't have to continuously re-farm those items. The economic side makes sense, I have no argument for that, just the enjoyment aspect, and the change being necessary. For p2w I feel like it's a push towards pay to win as you now have to pay for any buff you want to receive, and the cost isn't just an item slot its yen or time. It's not necessarily that bad NOW, but the overall acceptance of an update like this makes me fearful that it will continue until you have to pay to use things like utility mons, or sweet scent.
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1 minute ago, Xigbar said:
Do you havr any proof about you dont gain more money with the new amulet coin? Just a little example. The gentlemen before undella town now give you 8100 pokeyenes, just as an example. I have all that data gatheted so what you said have no sense. How you do the gym leaders? 'Cause in 1 hour i complete 2 regions of gym leaders and each one give you 13k or more so. You are saying things without solid arguments.
All in all the increase caused by the new amulet coin is negligible, if you take cost into consideration. I did not screenshot every trainer rematch I did prior to the update, no. I have not done a full money run since the update because I'm not gonna buy 10 amulet coins, and was wrongfully banned, I don't think my ban appeal will even get a reply I've never seen that actually happen, and I don't want you to rush through every region. I prefer to take my time, and enjoy playing the game. I can see your point, you do make more money now, however, I don't feel that the cost is worth the reward.
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I was making ~1m a day before the update on one account, trainer rematches, gym rematches, then more trainer rematches. If I were to do this now I would need like 8-10 amulet coins.
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1 minute ago, Xigbar said:
There is aok way to do the 1.2m in day with 2 accounts without problem. If you usually farm npc as you said then you already notice you gain more money than usual or you didnt? I done an npc rematch guide that can completely support what im saying. I battle every trainer and just wrote the trainers who give u a gain of 2.2k or more and with help of that I can make a custom npc rematch route. I can share it to you if you want it.
I would do the same thing mostly in Unova, Where there are trainers who would previously give 4k+ that now give around 3k.True story, I wish I could go back screenshot it, but the trainers along the route before victory road would give me like 4k with the old amulet coin.This doesn't add up tot he number they gave us. I don't want to spend time farming amulet coins, as I have no interest in seeing massive amounts of meowths. I don't want to buy them for 28k, because that makes the increase I would receive from them negligible. It was fine the way it was, any argument I've heard is an argument for the update being okay, not good. When this update first came out, I had to use my amulet coin, the same amulet coin that lasted me 800 hours. It lasted me one hour and I only made 150k doing gym rematches. The amulet coin was the best item in the game, as long as you had an amulet coin you were all set. The item slot argument is shot too, if you're good you don't care about 1 item slot, you could've even put an amulet coin on a persian lead with pay day and uturned out. That alone makes up for increase they gave it to justify making it consumable . I'd prefer to not worry about time or rushing, and just optimize my money making method. Then I can enjoy using the pokemon I like and not just the ones that complete money routes the fastest.
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44 minutes ago, MoxieMozzie said:
@blankf4ce naw my wife is just sick of me talking about pokemon :D
Mine too xD
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27 minutes ago, Xigbar said:
Yikes, you are so fucking mad. I think you should find the way the farm money with npcs, not everybody love be a bot farming berrys and other stuff. The money amulet is a problem for you 'cause the nerf of berrys. For me that buffs and nerfs are ok. For you not is ok, for other guys is ok. I dont even pay a single dollar for RP and Im able to farme 1.2 m per day in 3 hours so i dont see the problem. Good luck, I saw your last post and remember, change your account for real money is ban. See ya
I'm gonna write this off as a miscommunication due to translation, but you are making no sense. I don't like grinding for consumables like berries, that's why I'm mad. I don't even use berries when I shiny hunt, I teleport back to the pc (using the move not any cheats). I did farm money using npcs, I would do gym AND trainer rematches, and was making close to 1m in a day. Exchanging my account for money would be reason for a ban, if I actually did that. what I said exactly was "I gave my account away for a "donation"", in response to the "the in game shop is called donations as a legal loophole" argument, because it's not a legal loophole in the slightest. I said I did the EXACT same thing the game does to prove a point, and received a ban, you're probably one of the people who supports their misuse of the term. There's no way you make 1.2 m in 3 hours, but I used to make 1 m in a day, or more if I really played all day, while still enjoying myself, and having fun. No rushing to complete anything at all, I would actually have to wait a little for my second round of trainer rematches to reset, during this time I would do other things like look for shinies or breed pokemon.
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44 minutes ago, WildHodor said:
I mean there alot of people on forum who are satisfied with the updates or atleast thought they had to be done, even if they dont like them. But it seems do be easier for you to disregard these opinions as they are „just sucking the devs off“.
The truth is theres actually a minority which doesnt have an understanding of why they were made and you are the loudest voice of this minority throwing one tantrum after another, talking about leaving the game and showing up again every two days.
Why do you even suspect your so called suggestions to get any kind of positive feedback by devs or community with this childish behaviour?
In my opinion, explaining my opinion is the most mature way to go about it. At certain points I let staff make my point for me, like on the topic of donations. If you know why they were made let me know. Deflation? It seems to me that this update is an indication of a push towards a p2w model, and if accepted by the community will only continue to get worse. I don't necerasrilly think all of you are sucking them off, but you seem to be playing yourself. If you are buying amulet coins the increase is negligible, if you don't use the amulet coin anymore you are losing money (not currently but from prior to the update when you were allowed to use without farming for them, or buying them, while still enjoying the game), and if you are farming them then you're spending time grinding that you would've spent doing something else prior to the update. I really can't see any positive in it for anyone, but the staff, and anyone who stocked up on amulet coins prior to the update, or immediately after when they were only 17k, and haven't seen any good argument for it. If you have one, I'm more than willing to hear it and have my mind changed. I'm not like steven crowder, if you have valid points they will be acknowledged.
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This is getting out of hand. There are two recent posts on the same subject regarding this same issue in the trash(the one I was talking about is gone now, but was from an old player who returned to the game to find he was getting muted in chat way more often, and that the staff now was treating the customers much worse). This will probably end up in the same place, but I'll try anyway, as my last post was completely deleted, and my in game account banned. The inability of the staff to handle criticism is absurd. If people don't like changes being made to the game they have every right to do so, and speak out about it. Criticism is a good thing if you don't have a big head, as it helps you make improvements, and gauge the demand of these improvements. My account was banned for saying that I gave my account away for a "donation" to prove that calling something a term that it clearly isn't is in no way a legal loophole, and no this isn't my ban appeal I already made that so don't tell me to move this there. This is a general discussion about the way the playerbase is being treated and silenced by the staff. This is just getting ridiculous, and childish at this point. This is no way to handle a bussiness. Nintendo should take over control of this game, it would be for the better.
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On 7/30/2019 at 5:26 AM, razimove said:
Just so you know, back then the rate was a lie by the devs, nowadays it might stil be, and who knows if it really was, they never showed you a snipet of the formula they're using.
Who knows if they ever even changed it, they could've just changed what they're telling you it is to be more accurate with the expected results.
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1 hour ago, KittoKatsu said:
Okay, fair enough I will believe that you genuinely just don't understand and want to. I am sorry for my tone. - Listen, baseline here: developers with the skill set needed to work on projects like this make at minimum $50,000 a year working on just about any other full time project. That's -one- developer. A lot of developers make in excess of $70,000 a year. So already, if you take what I said about time being money (gained or lost) for developers, you can begin to understand whee this is going. Now I'm telling you as a matter of fact, there is no way the hosting of this service is also any less than $1,000 a month. I'm being generous here. Given the team here must have at least 2 - 3 developers, and a reliable and reasonably fast hosting service, we're already in over $150,000 a year (I'm counting time as money here again, these skills ain't free and aren't easy to achieve so rightfully a developer is worth this much). Now how many players do we have here? I don't but I'm guessing ballpark 5,000 to 8,000 on a good week (wild guess) and the vast majority, I guarantee you do not and will not donate. 10% maximum might. If we say the average donator, at %10, spends $20 a month (being very generous here) that comes to about... what.... $10,000 (500 x 20)? $20,000 at best? Of which $1,000 - $2,000 automatically goes to hosting cost. $18,000 - $150,000... is -$132,000....
I don't know if I would fully consider the time is money argument. They do put work into the game that is highly valuable in the current job market. However, they are still probably working their full-time jobs, and are doing this on the side in their free time. They also do not put enough work into this game to consider it a full-time project. It does take them a few years for each new region. It seems to me that they put the work into creating the game to create passive income on top of a full-time job's salary. They are still choosing to do this, and I doubt they would if they weren't already making enough at their jobs, or turning some kind of profit. I'll still give you 10k per developer here making it 30k a year, as they could be doing something else in their free time with their coding knowledge to make money. At least, for while the game is in development. It sounds like once platinum is out they will be more or less done working on the game. Plus 1.5k a month would be another 18k, so 48k a year, including intangibles. I would also say that the majority of people that actually donate, don't just get donator's status. They buy extra and exchange them for in-game currency. This could cover the tangible costs, while donations could cover the intangibles. This would still put them at a loss, so thank you for teaching me on this subject I genuinely knew nothing about, I was not trolling you or baiting you in any way. I will agree now that a pay what you want model would not work for this game, but not necessarily due to the costs.
I'm sorry to say that the vast majority of players would not even consider this. As far as the business aspect of things is concerned, most consumers don't care enough to research this stuff. Until now, the amount I was willing to donate was based on how much I felt I was enjoying the game, which was quite a bit. Let's be real here the value of the compensation given for donating is not even close to being considered a purchase (+10% shiny rate, +10% egg hatching on rates that are nerfed af for 1 week costs $5?). They don't need to nerf F2P, they need to buff P2P if anything. Myself and many others do not like being deceived into spending money, it definitely doesn't make me want to open up my wallet. Right now it feels like I'm being swindled into paying, not donating. Effectively making me want to walk away from the game for good. Converting every aspect of the game to consumables makes me increasingly less willing to spend money on the game, especially when the costs of said consumables outweigh the benefits, as I feel like I'm wasting my time playing it already I'd rather not waste my money too. Most people who play MMOs want to build up their accounts and enjoy the game, not use all their items in limited time periods. Nerfing the F2P players in an attempt to get them to spend money just isn't helping, and if they walk away from the game they will never be spending any money on it. From the sounds of it, the majority of the cost is intangible, in which case actual donations (pay what you want) would be the best way to go about it. People won't do that if they don't enjoy what they're getting from the devs. If improvements were made to the game people could and likely would feel good about supporting the devs and the game. While I would agree with you, the devs definitely deserve compensation for making this game possible, I still feel that they are going about it in the wrong way. Making the game so nerfed (1/30k shiny rate, no long term amulet coin, no long term lucky egg, etc.) that the average f2p player can't enjoy it long enough to consider donating doesn't seem like a good idea to me. People like this game so much because it is so similar to the original games. But, at this rate, the game will no longer be enjoyable unless you donate, making it pay to play, which I can't logically or morally agree with. The changes they are making all seem negative to the average consumer. I feel like the game I've enjoyed for so long is being ruined by the economic aspects of things, meanwhile the devs are making it seem like a hobby. Switching to a pay what you want model would only not work because so many people aren't happy about donating, give the customer what they want and they will be happy to pay.
F2P can be replaced with casual, as casual players still spend money^
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If they're losing money right now then I'm sorry and would redact my previous statements. However, I don't believe that in the slightest.
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32 minutes ago, KittoKatsu said:
To the ears of me, someone who actually understands the costs the developers are incurring both tangible and intangible, and to whom it is clear that you DO NOT...
...understand that you just sound like a horribly misinformed/willfully ignorant freeloader who just wants everything to be magically free and doesn't care that the service being granted to him actually costs more than PokeMMO could ever make actually make in donations.
I asked what it costs. I don't claim to know how much it costs, that's why I asked you. I would not donate towards something I do not support. I did enjoy this game, and am not ignorant to the fact that it does cost something to keep the game running. Tangible costs, nobody is forcing them to do this. However, I think the efforts the devteam is making towards turning a profit, which I am not necessarily convinced that they are not already doing, are going to do nothing but push people away from playing the game. Keep in mind, most people do not have the technical knowledge you do, and are only interested in playing the game they love (pokemon) in an mmo format, that is kept as close to the original games as possible. Trying to force money out of our pockets is only going to push us away.
edit: just found a provider offering servers of a similar type (teardown and rebuild of cs:go) for $119-$980 a month: https://www.servermania.com/kb/articles/how-much-does-it-cost-to-run-a-game-server/, and and you expect me to believe they aren't turning a profit? Or couldn't with a pay what you want model? And that's assuming they use a similar service and don't just own their own processors.
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1 minute ago, kuplion said:
Uh..no. The best legal loophole here is donations and the legal responsibility for acquiring the required roms being on the end user.
I was speaking on the topic of accepting "donations", not the topic of roms. Since everyone on this thread is stating that they use that term to avoid legal trouble, and to avoid being open about any profit they seem to not be making according to Kittokatsu. Since, this would likely cause a lawsuit from Nintendo. I doubt they would continue to keep this game running if they were losing money.
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14 minutes ago, KittoKatsu said:
What is the point of this post, OP? Trolling?
My other post that you're referring to was not made to troll anyone except Gilan particularly, nothing personal against him he was just an easy target since it is common knowledge on the forum that wrong statistics trigger tf out of him. It was to make a statement, one that was obviously misinterpreted.
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23 minutes ago, KittoKatsu said:
As someone with A) development experience, B) a computer science degree and actual game/web site hosting experience and C) a basic understanding of economics...
*breath*
....AHAHAHAHAHAHA!
...Firstly, you possess no understanding of the term 'profit', you are confusing profit with revenue. Secondly if you think they are making a profit here YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR MIND. When you take into account costs, not just tangible ones like hosting and development funding, as well as intangible costs (time for instance, which for experienced devs, like the ones who work on this, is money and it's money lost... they could be doing something else) - then it probably costs them at least as much as they make. The donations we (I have donated and will again) provide are just that - donations. They keep the game you enjoy playing and incentivize the developers (who could be earning way more doing something else) to do work. They also incentivize people with money who may be on the fence to part with their money.
What is the point of this post, OP? Trolling?
Oh, but I thought they were doing this out of the kindness of their hearts? At least that's what they make it seem like. Considering this is not their game, switching to a pay what you want model would be the best legal loophole they have. Profit is revenue-cost. If you think I'm wrong about radiohead, then do some research, thought you had experience, they made A LOT of PROFIT using this model. You are right about one thing, I do not know how much it would cost to keep a game like this running. Don't play yourself the devs are very open about the fact that this is a side hustle and not their actual jobs. Development funding for what? the game was already made, they just make a few minor adjustment, that's why we download roms. That leaves what? hosting? How much does hosting ACTUALLY cost, if you don't mind me asking someone with experience on the subject. I was personally going to donate a few hundred dollars when platinum went live, but this recent update has made me reconsider even playing this game again. I definitely wouldn't feel comfortable donating if this is the direction the game is headed. Sorry they can't legally make this pay to play, that's probably for a good reason.
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They would probably do better with a Pay what you want model. Radiohead, and Moshpit Tragedy Records were able to make one of the most profitable albums of their time period (In rainbows) using this method. Considering the nature of this mmo, this would be perfect.
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They shouldn't need a legal loophole. They are trying to profit off of nintendo's idea. If this were actually just a fan-made game, made for the enjoyment of other, then I'm sure people would be more than happy to donate. However, the devs trying to make this into an all out cash-op is ruining the game and the enjoyment of it for a lot of the players.
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While false advertising is the wrong term, the fact that "donator's status" only lasts 1 week, 2 weeks, or 1 month, could be considered false. Once you have spent money you would forever be a "donator" not for a limited time depending on the amount you "donated".
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36 minutes ago, Dazuzi said:
Who are we talking to?
Don't worry about it, just know I don't need help. If you play this game you need help. The devs are not doing their job in listening to the community. This update hurts everyone who plays this game, and doesn't spend irl money on it. It is an attempt to push people towards spending money, and removes a free in game money resource from the game. This post was an attempt to make them realize how ridiculous it is to even try and support something that is so obviously wrong, under the guise that the update was in our best interest. It was not, it was in their best interest and an attempt to make more money off of us. I currently have donator's status active. I'm going to finish that out and stop playing this game, and yes I'm salty for wasting 800 hours of my life on this busted ass game. That's why I don't mind wasting a few hours trying to get them to change it. If you think making a post about the update being unfair, then go look at other examples of the same thing, and see how far that got them.
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6 minutes ago, Malorne said:
You have no idea who you're talking to. I do not need help. Have fun supporting a game where the developers treat the playerbase like shit, and take your money.
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15 minutes ago, Dazuzi said:
I obviously don't care if I seem stupid, honestly if you don't get it, then you're the stupid one. Look up the word satire. Throughout this post I was playing the part of a mod supporting their update, which is obviously a step in the wrong direction for this game. Despite any evidence we give them to try and get them to admit that this update was a bad idea, they won't.
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8 minutes ago, Munya said:
Nah
That's a shame, you all should really research Stew Leonard's, and their "the customer is always right" policy. I've spoken to multiple people leaving the game due to this update, and taking their money with them. I believe that is the opposite of what you were hoping for.
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Do I really have to post a full explanation? people still don't get it? this post has nothing to do with statistics. There's a reason I was so adamant about people not going out and buying lottery tickets, no harm no foul.
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6 hours ago, Malorne said:
Went from statistics to heroic speech, u had a good run young one. Now rest with the rest of the failed topics in the chasm of GD.
Failed? I accomplished exactly what I intended to do with this post, Gilan took the bait perfectly. I hope this shows the devs how ridiculous they look telling us were wrong to dislike the recent update.
Stop Throttling the game
in General Discussion
Posted · Edited by blankf4ce
Nvm I didn't see the tabs on the bottom, but none the less I'm not as interested in the difference between with or without amulet coin now as I am with the difference between with amulet coin before vs. with amulet coin now.