Typlion Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) This is my ELEVENTH forum post after playing this game for around one month(almost hitting 200hr game-time), and apparently i can now post on the suggestion box, and i hope all of you reading this can understand what i want to convey and do point out if there are parts where it is not clear enough :) First of all, i hope there is no such thread yet and i think there probably aren't any since IV's being visible was just implemented not long ago. If there is really such a thread do link me to it though Basically what made me struck upon this idea was after reading this post by DrCraig [spoiler] Posted 11 September 2015 - 11:03 AM Regarding the costs of breeding utilities like you said JJ, I completely agree. The costs for breeding are ridiculous. Sure a "15k Brace" and a "5k gender select" seem like reasonable prices. Hell, they look cheap right? Wrong. I was just in the situation where I am breeding a breeder, the usual grind bullshit I love. I put time into catching both wild pokemon and breed them together for 30k in braces and 5k for the gender. I just spent 35k to make onebreeder. Only one breeder which I am going to have to combine with another to just kill it off. 35k for 1 egg? That's such garbage. Let's make a hypothetical scenario: I breed an egg Total Cost: 35k Let's assume th average trainer payout is 4k *Which it is not, they give you chump change So let's do maths. 35/4=8.75 So it takes me approximately 9 trainers to earn enough yen to make one egg. ONE. This is assuming 4k payout each. That is absolutely ridiculous that I need to spend the time to beat 9 NPCs to earn enough money to make one egg. You can not tell me there are plenty of NPCs either because there are not. You can only battle every 6 hours and most of the PCs only give 2k or even less anyway. That's complete garbage. The value of money and value of goods to purchase have some terrible relationship. Money is tough to earn and tough to keep. Yen is such a necessity, yet it is impossible to maintain a sufficient amount[/spoiler] So, why not make obtaining AN EGG(a 2*31IV pokemon basically) a bit more easier and cheaper? 1) So the idea generally is to let players to be able have the option to buyback one of the parent that is used for breeding for a fee which is mathematically lower than the cost price (35k~40k if you count in the time and effort you put in when breeding a 2*31pokemon) I would say forking out 20~30k for it can be considered a reasonable price.(do correct me if i am wrong). Further emendations would be a slightly higher price for pokemon which belong to two egg groups, i.e. 20k for a tentacool(one egg group) and 25k for a corphish(two egg groups) Do take note this is only applicable to 2*31 pokes as i personally feel making this option available for 3*31's can be a bit too game-breaking. 2) After that, we need to prevent people from abusing the system above to get back godly pokes, i.e. 31/30/30/30/30/31. For that, another rule has to be implemented which is probably something like -- the pokemon's other 4 non-31 IVs cannot be more than 80 together(avg 20 for each stat). This number can be changed higher or lower for the better good. 20 is just an example and i personally believe the average can be set around 21 or 22, as long as the avg IV's together with the 2*31 wont make the pokemon you bought back worthy enough to be called a competitive. Another rule would be there cannot be a third IV which is higher than a certain number, i.e. 26. This is the number i personally have no idea what should be set for it. Basically, the number should be low enough that you will not consider it as a stat good enough to be bred - with a brace/ on your comps. 3) Up next, is another problem, what if i have a 2*31 but the average is just one or a bit more points higher(80 but your poke has 81avg) or it is one or a bit more points higher than the latter highest IV rule and you really only want to use it as a buyback breeder only? You can probably ignore this and just opt to buyback the other parent instead but just in case someone insists on buying back that particular pokemon. I personally think that one way to solve this is the 'hard rock method'. If randomly lowering our 4*31 comps' IVs for a desired HP is just too much for us, why not implement more usage for hard rocks? A new function that can be implemented would be if you use a hard rock on a 2*31 pokemon(which satisfies the points in no.2) their other non-31 IV's will automatically be randomly lowered until it fulfills the points in no.2. After applying the 3 points above, we will need to think of the impact of it to the game as a whole. I will try my best to list out most of the things which will be affected that i can think of. Do give more suggestions in this part :D First of all, the most obvious result is definitely comps will be slightly easier, faster and cheaper to breed. Let's assume the cost of a 2*31 is 40k(included 2 braces, time, and effort, not included the ridiculous 21k gender selection). If the buyback price is set at 20,25,30,35k, the cost for a breeding a breeder/comp can be POTENTIALLY lowered/rebated as shown in spoiler below. [spoiler] Total 31's / Buyback Price 20k 25k 30k 35k 3 (one potential bb) 20k 15k 10k 5k 4 (two potential bb) 40k 30k 20k 10k 5 (four potential bb) 80k 60k 40k 20k 6 (eight potential bb) 160k 120k 80k 40k [/spoiler] One special point i would like to point out is do we want to limit which parent(male/female) can be taken back or do we allow the player to choose? If we do not limit players to be only able to take back the male parent, players can easily breed rare 3*31 pokes without losing the 2*31 female one. My current opinion is having too much 3*31 pokes might make them not so rare and thus lowering their prices. But really, i cannot imagine what might happen though to the market if female 2*31 can be bought back. My personal opinion is probably too much 3*31 clones in the market? Overall, i would suggest that the player can only buy back the female poke if it isn't in the evolutionary line of any Ubers or OU. And if players want to buy back a breeder which has gender disparity, a tiny amount of extra charge can be added too as long as it is not too ridiculous. As for genderless breeding, the best is probably to keep it as it is now which both parents will be killed. If it is breeding with ditto, i would also say, let's just kill both parents for convenience sake :v Second, let's review from the buyer's perspective. The numbers are not too high to really change the pricing of comps but rather provides buyers a chance to purchase/nego comps at a more lower price. Did i forgot to mention, the egg moves which you will be spending more time and money to put on the male parent can be get back at a lower price? If mods decided this is too much, maybe they can put in extra charges to get back male pokes with tutored or egg moves. To put it easier, less grinding :3 Thirdly, is the breeder's perspective. The breeding cost definitely has not gone down, but with the option of buying back one of the parents, it automatically feels like you've just gotten a deal for buying a 2*31 for XXk price only. After that, it will be up to the player to sell the parent for something less than 40k or continue using it as a breeder or trade it for another 2*31. In a nutshell, the breeder cannot breed a pokemon cheaper (which makes new players have to grind for a bit too), but each time they breed a 3*31, they will automatically get some instant value back assuming they have enough yen to pay for the buyback. The other non-monetary value would be saving time to get your 2*31's, which is quite valuable imo. Then in turn, they can sell the comp they just breed for a little bit cheaper or people will be able to value, "Is it cheaper and more worthwhile for me to buy at X price or should i just breed it myself because of the buyback system." I believe this can push the breeders to sell comps at a more lower price. Fourth, is the impact on comp scene and the market. This should push the comp scene to become more competitive as newcomers can get good comps and vets can get their hands on more diverse movesets comps faster too. Next, the market will have more 2*31 pokes(at least that's what i think). This can be good as 2*31 can potentially become another sub-currency in PokeMMO like BP/RP. People are able to actively trade 2*31 among themselves, which speeds up breeding because you save the time to hunt the 1*31 and fuse them together and currently not much people are doing this(trading breeders) in the trade channel. This might even lead to creation of teams which focuses on trading 2*31 among themselves for simpler breeding. You can also potentially borrow one parent from a friend and buy it back to return to your friend at the cost of 20~30k, which is somewhat rewarding for players imo. Another possibility would be a loaning market emerging.(This might be a little bit risky for the owner) Let's say A wants a certain 2*31 breeder and B has it. A wants to loan it for 1k. A trades a reasonable buying price for a 2*31(35~40k) for the breeder. After using it and buying it back, let's say for 20k. A trades back B's pokemon for 39k. Result: A gets a 2*31 breeder for 21k and B earns 1k for loaning. If A decides to run away with the breeder, B earns maybe a little for selling the 2*31 to A while A gets a 2*31 breeder for a fair price. The risk is probably equivalent to lending players asking for rental pokes to do e4. Generally, if 2*31 Pokes can be bought back after breeding with certain T&C, i believe the grinding of players can be reduced to a certain amount. Furthermore, the cost of breeding, i.e. braces and ability pills, can still maintain their current price which prevents the yen from becoming too weak which of course leads to inflation. In a sense, it's a system that rewards breeders while at the same time does not reduce the staple prices which the mods believe in. I remember seeing people trying to sell their 5*31 for days and when you breed, you should not need to wait for days to be able to get some profit. Insta value back to breeders, what else can be better? Of course, there will be no worries which too much clones exists since there will probably be 2*31' breeders only, which is actually a good thing for comp and breeding players. I would say even if implementing something like this to the game will probably only solve part of PokeMMO's current problems, it's still better than nothing :) I mean, who doesn't like getting at least one of the parents back? Please feel free to comment and give suggestions if there are any perspectives i missed out or if there is any major flaw to implementing this system other than programming it. Do forgive me if the structure of this post sucks :lol: [spoiler]I hope i made myself somewhat understandable :P [/spoiler] Edited September 20, 2015 by Typlion Lightbiyomon, Arimanius, Bishav and 1 other 4 Link to comment
inesti89 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) Wow you put a lot of work into this. I hope your idea isn't torn apart... as most are. People are gonna be all like... nah no good. Then somebodies gonna be like... ehh maybe. Then the idea will have been forgotten. My take on this? It's a videogame. I want it to be difficult. I want it to be time-consuming. I want the game to be hard so I know when I get to the competitive level... I will be competing among the elite. I've not had a hard time making money. I think all the people who complain about that have a hard time saving money. I think that 99% of the stuff in-game is appropriately priced. Pokemon breeding is also appropriately priced in my opinion. It is not too expensive, but expensive enough to the point where I will not waste pokemon, braces, or time on crap breeds... and feel fulfilled when you finally get that perfect breed you were working towards. Thank you for taking the time and effort to try to provide a solution to what you view as a problem. Edited September 21, 2015 by inesti89 Bishav and Arimanius 2 Link to comment
Tritios Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Wow so much too read. But I really doubt this will happen. Natured 2x31 rest around 20 are perfectly good comps in my eyes. If breeding for 5x31 was necessary which it isn't this would make it alot easier and berable. Also this would be very confusing for players especially newer ones. Bishav 1 Link to comment
SirYurop Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Imo is a a good idea, w this u can buyback the pokes for continue your project what makes breedin faster and even more efficient, also helps to make same species but w other set, nature, etc... Less grind, same money sinks Link to comment
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