[Really not liking level caps]

5 hours ago, insertusernamehere said:

PokeMMO became the Dark Souls of all pokemon games out there

 

 

Actually that's Pokemon Reborn, its way harder all around because of like six rivals, very little Pokemon selection, and a ridiculous level cap.

[Really not liking level caps]

2 hours ago, Bearminator said:

And I know 3 people who loves changes.  Do we have a dra w?

 

 

Also excuse me.  My team was made of pokemons I like. They were awful in means of comp pokemons. Biggest iv was like 27 in one stat. 

 

Sure I've Lost, but I've leveled two pokes to lvl 55. Krokodile and dweino iirc and I managed to beat ghestis on third attemp. It took Time but when I hear that uneed comps to do it - you dont but they may help.

 

 

Note- Im not saying you have no rigth to complain about something u dont like

And it's perfectly fine to like these changes or just accept them.

But that's why I said casual players or less experienced.

For the reason that anyone can also not enjoy these changes, but people won't accept that for some reason.

So I'm happy that you enjoy it with pokemon you like but I'm pretty sure I never said it was unbeatable, just harder.

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You're the only person so wholeheartedly saying to just accept changes we think are negative. To not even bring them up because they won't be changed.Oh and I'm pretty sure other than the original post I made nobody said the game was going to fall through if the changes were kept. So not really sure why you brought that up from Raichus post, what i think he actually means is "Youll enjoy how the game is a year from now" and that the game would lose players. And it has, I remember the big fuss over breeding and how many people quit then too.

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2 hours ago, Gunthug said:

haha good luck bud, the first set of finals are the hardest only because you don't really know what to expect yet - don't stress too much

I'm only quoting this as a reply, see you keep assuming as other people have that I personally have trouble with this.

I've said it before, and apparently I have to mirror raichu and say it again, I'm bringing this up because I personally know people who have quit because of these changes.

And because these would be easy to balance for more casual players, I find it frustrating.

And you might have noticed I agreed with Senile, I don't like the direction the game is going in. I have very little interest in high level competitive play.

But that does not mean I haven't played it before or are not at the level of skill you keep referencing to beat these battles.

Please stop making assumptions like that if you want people to take you seriously.

Of course me and Raichu would feel biased towards this having personal evidence of it affecting players.

But if the people saying they had problems, and being told to get over it isn't enough evidence, not really sure what could be.

I've already agreed I'm waiting to see what changes come through the pipeline, and I'm hoping it's something more balanced and accepting of new or casual players.

 

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Breeding, the e4, and items are all in the same boat currently. Of being important gameplay features but being gimped/negative due to trying to balance them in the opposite direction of how they were before or were abused.

But unless you're trying to get the in game market more active I couldn't see why it would be pushed so hard not to have free resources closer to the original game.

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I've already addressed why what you're saying isn't realistic. Nobody, bar you apparently, is going to go through these more difficult battles over and over until they win like you have, and the alternative is building or buying comp Pokemon.

This creates a problem in that you're teaching people they should have to breed away the Pokemon they like and just as a side point how exactly is breeding more balanced by swinging so hard in the opposite direction? 

If they aren't wasting time catching pokemon just to breed with they're farming wilds until they get something good. And both of those things are negative to the experience.

For the level cap talk, I don't understand how you don't see that not being able to go past level 60 on Pokemon is a huge detriment.

I admit I forgot what level they had, but a two level to six level difference is nothing unless you've ev/iv trained pokemon with comp movesets, with the heightened difficulty that's a ridiculous level cap.

I'm waiting to see how this is re-balanced to be more fair and look forward to it being not just "easier", but more accessible for people to fight against.

The elite 4 should not be a challenge that limits the player, they should be a resource to build a better team and gain money in a fun way.

[Really not liking level caps]

11 hours ago, XelaKebert said:

You're right that not everyone must be a comp player. I'm about as casual a player as you will find on staff. When it comes to comp knowledge I have some understanding, but it may as well be 0. I know how STAB works, type effectiveness, and EVs/IVs. That's about it. I have 0 clue what can check certain Pokemon and what can counter certain Pokemon. I have 0 clue what the most optimal build is for a given Pokemon. Theorymon pretty much causes my eyes to glass over.

 

That being said, there are other aspects you can look at in MMOs aside from playing competitively. At this point there is only breeding and Berry Farming, which is a bit offputting, but there will be other aspects in the future. Once Hidden Abilities begin to be released you can start farming up Pokemon with those Hidden Abilities and selling them for a profit. Not everyone will want to farm for them and not everyone will want to breed for them. You can just hunt shinies at any point.

 

The dev team wants the storyline to at least reflect a bit of what the end game will eventually look like. As I said, if players don't have a basic understanding of the game by the time they reach the end game content then the storyline has failed. The purpose of the storyline for any MMO is to teach the players the basic mechanics.

 

Please read the above again. You are not locked out of stuff completely until you beat the Elite 4. The only things you are locked out of for not beating the Elite 4 are areas you already had to beat the elite 4 to go to in the first place. You can just gain 8 badges in each region and never finish the storyline.

 

Please bear in mind that this game is still in active development so not everything is in place yet. The dev team has a vision in mind and they are working towards that vision.

This would all be fine, except there's an active level cap in every region now so you *are* locked out of having Poke above 56 in any region if you can't beat the e4.

Breeding is available in 2 of 3 but the breeding system is much harsher now and frankly it makes no sense to take the users pokemon, and of course there's the current issues with money.

If I didn't see this difficulty spike as unbalanced and needing at least some adjustment I wouldn't say anything.

But this spike affects not only anyone playing casually but even using high level pokemon in the region.

As a final point I want to say that the other regions are generally alright for their first E4 battle but Unova makes you face all of the elite four, and then n and ghetsis.

Is everyone just supposed to use all of their money on items or making comp pokemon?

This is a problem because the level cap is way lower than the level of N and Ghetsis, even lower than the champion.

So for me this needs the most balancing since it locks end of main game content behind a difficulty wall.

Of course again, it's being worked on and balanced, so these are just my current thoughts on it as a long time player of pokemmo.

[Really not liking level caps]

I really don't get this joke that there's no difficulty, even the devs have agreed there's a very distinct and at this time somewhat glitchy difference in difficulty of the gyms and e4. Such a change in difficulty that it's been said before in this thread but it would probably hurt the less experienced or casual players time in the game.

The devs don't want that obviously, and have said they're looking into how to make it more balanced in a lot of ways.

 

There's a pretty glaring difference between a rival battle where they switch a lot and have decent pokemon to a gauntlet of five battles with a level restriction where they have perfect pokemon with comp builds.

[Really not liking level caps]

2 hours ago, Malorne said:

Bottom line is, it can be done. Just not the way you're doing so far. Its not like moves hit more when you're an experienced player.

Actually that is almost literally what that means, you have better IVs/EVs and better movesets.  But I want to say again, I didn't personally have any trouble.

Everyone who is having trouble knows it *can* be done. That doesn't mean they currently have the knowledge or resources to do it themselves, or do it easily.

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7 minutes ago, Malorne said:

Nah, thats because i dont limit what i can do to what i've been doing in all the handhelds where i baton pass shit to a magikarp and flail my way through the E4.
There is a level cap, yes. But there is also the knowledge of what gym types, E4 types you will face on your way. Which you can easily asses the situation and rotate your team accordingly. If anything, the level cap will actually help you to prepare yourself, considering pokemon of E4 will also change the more your level scaling increases, where you will be caught off guard.

I just came back to say I'm pretty bewildered that this looped back around to an argument that was already talked through.

Saying "I did it, now you do it" is never going to help or change anything dude XD

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Great, I'll be happy to see how the game changes.

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18 minutes ago, Kyu said:

I agree that IVs are artificial difficulty, and it's done that way due to the significant boosts that overleveling gives you. It's also because the AI is too simplistic to handle mechanics like afflicting conditions properly right now.

 

I don't necessarily agree that EVs are artificial difficulty, because the game encourages players to go fight wild encounters when they get "stuck", which boosts their stats passively. Although I guess you could argue that the typing requirements being changed on every gym encourages people to move on to different parties every Gym.

 

Either way, the bullet sponge mechanics are to compensate for other flaws in the game, and they'll probably be toned down when the AI is made better.

 

Are you referring to NPC sourced items like Revives/Hyper Potions/Balls, or are you referring to player-sourced items which are obtainable via Crafting?

NPC buyable items, the rest is fine for the most part.

Now that you can't overlevel maybe it would be better to remove the IVs EVs or tone them down, of course later on when changes are being made.

And possibly change npc movesets, since some of them are uh, very strange even thinking competitively

[Really not liking level caps]

7 minutes ago, Kyu said:

Well, we sprinkle Nuggets around like they're candy at the moment, but if it's not good enough, we'll make it better I guess. There's a pretty high incentive to "100%" the region with visible/hidden items (although the latter is completely reliant on guides due to ItemFinder literally never working), but if players refuse to do it, then I can buff the initial Gym Leader payouts I suppose.

 

It doesn't. If players have already cleared a region, then the only thing which really changes is that their untradeable items are now unlocked for sale. If we lost players due to the high difficulty and buggy overworld, then oh well, that's our fault and there's nothing we can really do to change it. We'll just keep trying to improve it for the next batch of players.

 

The problem is that the end-game is so difficult compared to the storyline that we have severe issues with end-game adoption. We've seen it for years, we know it's an issue, and we think it's primarily because the storyline doesn't represent the difficulty of the end-game and the lack of general end-game content. For example, with existing end-game content like the Battle Frontier being much more difficult than the "normal" Emerald storyline, players very often got stuck in a place where they couldn't complete the Battle Frontier, and they were stuck grinding out trainer rematches in Kanto/Hoenn until they could build a team which could beat it. Then they got frustrated when they saw the amount of BP required to obtain some simple moves/items, and the list goes on.

 

I agree that the social aspects of the game are something we're lacking on at the moment, and they're a priority over the next month or two. Unfortunately, people got really mad about money and breeding, so we had to fix that first.

 

With regards to 'advanced strategy', I don't think the storyline requires the depth of the end-game. I've already listed the advantages we give, but our failure to teach players hidden mechanics like STAB via the UI is also something we're working on. I think a lot of the perceived difficulty is unfamiliarity with underlying mechanics of the game, but we'll see.

I* am very happy to hear these things are being worked on, knowing more has helped me understand the situation much better.

Something that could use some balance when the dev team is more free to work on changes is that as someone who knows how STAB/type adv/move coverage/etc works I still don't understand how having them be IV'd EV'd or so meta/comp is useful.

The E4 have moves that are se against their own type, which I don't see a reason for, you already addressed the switching which is obv a bug they switch out way too much lol

And the IVs/EVs are where I'm esp confused. This is the only option I could see as "artificial difficulty" because it just ups the effectiveness of the pokemon while the player has to do all of it manually.

I see this as one of the things you'd change to balance them better. But I have def been calmed as far as the changes go, since I know changes are already being rolled out.

edit: I forgot to say, I don't think the item spread is really bad. I got plenty of things to sell, but the items are simply too expensive with how much you currently earn.

[Really not liking level caps]

Why keep the base game format if it's going to deviate in difficulty but not in gameplay? If I'm still limited by badges, why have it be harder to access the mmo content?

For example, I can't train Pokemon freely/breed/trade or travel to different locations without beating the base game, but now the base game has a higher difficulty to access those things. For an mmo style game this seems counter intuitive.

And I do take back the things I said that are being worked on, I simply didn't have that information before.

[Really not liking level caps]

Just now, Toupi said:

You can still do it without even beating E4

With the level limit, part of the game is very literally locked behind the e4. And this includes trading and battling because you'd need to surpass that level cap.

In a way limits breeding as well, because a lot of the pseudos evolve around the level cap, I know for a fact Hydreigon is impossible to evolve or use.

[Really not liking level caps]

Completely agree with this, this is why the main game of FF or WoW are completely accessible to anyone who wants to pick it up, but if you do want to do the dungeons or raiding you can choose to.

The main game doesn't have a difficulty shift towards them either, it's simply a different experience for competitive players.

[Really not liking level caps]

29 minutes ago, Kyu said:

We're really not making a casual game, so, tough luck I guess. I like hard strategy games, so that's what we made. I know it's a little too hard right now, which is why we're buffing everything which isn't builds. We don't want to make the builds easier, and we already give players a significant advantage through leveling ahead of NPCs, the near unlimited use of healing items in-battle, and the ability to straight-up revive everything in-battle.

 

If, after all that, we still have issues with the general difficulty of the game, sure, we'll consider reducing the difficulty of the builds. But you're sitting there getting mad about something which isn't even done so I can't really take your reply seriously. Sorry.

I would like to address that I said I was mad at the beginning of this and tried to avoid that kind of behavior after that first post

 But this is a much more reasonable post than the first one, although I have to disagree with your comments about items and reviving everything.

Money is really not that common, esp if you're looking at revives and hyper/max potions.

You did comment that there are changes going out to improve item output and money, but how does that help people who have already gone through the new region?

Maybe absolutely new players, but then it comes back to the difficulty curve.

I'm agreeing with Raichu that I just don't see the logic behind these choices.

If it really just comes down to "it's my game, i'll make it how I like it", that's fine, but it's obviously going to alienate people who don't share your taste, and you said as much.

As for the mmo part of it, the part I personally see as important is the chatting, battling, teams, and player interactions in general. My opinion is that this advanced strategy that players should be working towards is not as important as an accessible experience for the common player.

I'm also sorry you felt I was just getting mad, I can assure I'm not upset, just more concerned about what I more saw now but see as a difficult direction for the game and it's players.

 

 

It makes sense that there would be confusion and some dissent over big changes like this, and I did overreact to some of it.

[Really not liking level caps]

2 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

Darkshade posts a 9 paragraph response and you're still on with this "all anyone ever says is git gud" bullshit? You must really love being the victim. This game is so unfair to you!!!

I didn't say anything even close to that dude, please stay on topic or don't post lol

[Really not liking level caps]

I appreciate that Shade at least put thought into his post, and didn't sound so patronizing and authoritative about it. But explaining that the AI gets harder, doesn't fix anything, all I keep seeing is "preparing for the end game dungeons",

Okay maybe I'll do those when they're out and I want to do comp team builds.

But expecting your entire player base to want or just accept a shift in difficulty towards what is artificial difficulty in AI just to have end game content is ridiculous.

People want to play a pokemon mmo, not fight comp AI they could fight in any romhack.

[Really not liking level caps]

It's no use, the mods and devs want the changes, so telling them anything otherwise as Kyu has said very clearly is not going to change anything. He clearly did not read anything or cares about the opinions or experience of the players. I've seen plenty of "why not just have the option there, have the second battle harder". And the response to probably the most reasonable change I've seen is always just "get better at how it is now" or "no, we aren't going to change anything"

[Really not liking level caps]

Just now, Gunthug said:

He literally said that 3 people complaining was his evidence of a majority lol. Keep up

 

"That are probably..." there you go making assumptions again! It's really not that difficult to refrain from hypocrisy, you know.

Sorry that I don't keep tabs on every person who complains lol It's almost like you never had a point other than denying that people don't like it.

 

1 minute ago, superpichu999 said:

Thats why i said "for the most part". Please im trying to help.

Believe me when I say I'm not trying to bash you or insult you, but if it were "for the most part" nobody would have an issue with it. The devs should really have the game working properly before they're making the AI teams harder.

[Really not liking level caps]

6 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

So to you, 3 people is a majority? Is that what your assertion is right now? 

No, but it is a majority to just you and the mods/senior comp members who don't count towards the common playerbase. I was hasty in saying that, let me clarify that it is a silent majority, that are probably either afraid or willing to go along with these bad changes enough not to speak up. Whenever they have the jokes about getting good and "I beat it on the first try" comments begin.

2 minutes ago, superpichu999 said:

For the most part moves are implemented, baring some secondary effects, its the ge4/5 abilties and items that arent.

Absolutely incorrect, moves like confuse ray are still 100% unimplemented(and I've had experiences where this just gives the AI a free turn). And secondary effects from as far back as gen 2/3 moves still aren't.

[Really not liking level caps]

So your only reply is "git gud" at the new difficulty and accept it? You're even admitting that you probably won't beat the e4, so you'd just be wasting time using those spindas. And for most players, wasting time on losing is not fun.

edit: wasting time on building a comp team just to beat what is pre-dungeon content is also not fun

And for the guy who said he beat it in one day without Evs or breeding, frankly you either had a team/Pokemon already ready for it, used plenty of items or I just flat out don't believe you.

[Really not liking level caps]

3 minutes ago, epicdavenport said:

I really don't understand why people are having trouble with the story. I beat it the day the update came out without breeding or ev training. 

This kind of post is exactly the problem here, thanks for another one on the pile bud.

[Really not liking level caps]

1 minute ago, Gunthug said:

The irony of you chastising me for "assuming" that people got better,  and then turning around and assuming that it's a vocal majority who opposed the changes, is hysterical. 

The irony of you saying this after 3 people vocally showed their disapproval of these changes is way funnier.