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PokeMMO Event Discussion: The PokeMMO CAP Contest

Tranzmaster

By Tranzmaster
in Events Archive

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Senile

Senile

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Guess I better start typing.

First of all, the 5th gen meta thing; Why exactly is that an option? It's not bad to have options, but I very much doubt a majority of the people playing, or even the judges, have very much knowledge of 5th gen meta. It just seems confusing and unneeded. It doesn't have to be removed, but I don't see why it has to be there.

But, my biggest issue is "Theoretical finished PokeMMO metagame". That does not tell anyone anything at all. We're supposed to make up pokemon that would work in a made up metagame that doesn't exist? I don't understand how that's even conceivable. I strongly suggest changing this to the current PokeMMO meta. Not only due to the fact that the metagame doesn't exist, making it complicated, but a "Finished PokeMMO Metagame" doesn't tell us anything.

Does a finished one include legendary pokemon? Does it include level 100 exclusive things like Tyranitar? How far in the future is it, is it still in 3rd gen?

And, I must emphasize this again, but we don't know what this meta will be like. Assuming legendaries aren't included, that's a very large part of the 3rd gen meta, so we can't compare it to that, and we can't compare it to the PokeMMO meta, because of how radically different they'll be.

If you simply must stick with a "Finished PokeMMO meta" idea, at the very least be specific in what that is. If not, for the love of god, change it to PokeMMO meta or standard 3rd gen, because I have no idea what you want and it's not explained well enough.

[spoiler]And no, "just do 5th gen instead then" isn't a response to this complaint.[/spoiler]

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Tranzmaster

Tranzmaster

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First of all, the 5th gen meta thing; Why exactly is that an option? It's not bad to have options, but I very much doubt a majority of the people playing, or even the judges, have very much knowledge of 5th gen meta. It just seems confusing and unneeded. It doesn't have to be removed, but I don't see why it has to be there.
 

 

You're assuming nobody knows anything of the Gen V meta. Based on what do you think nor the players, nor the judges have knowledge of the gen V meta?

 

The reason why it was added is to give the players the choice. Some people just don't like the PokeMMO meta, but some don't know Gen V as well.

 

 

But, my biggest issue is "Theoretical finished PokeMMO metagame". That does not tell anyone anything at all. We're supposed to make up pokemon that would work in a made up metagame that doesn't exist? I don't understand how that's even conceivable. I strongly suggest changing this to the current PokeMMO meta. Not only due to the fact that the metagame doesn't exist, making it complicated, but a "Finished PokeMMO Metagame" doesn't tell us anything.

Does a finished one include legendary pokemon? Does it include level 100 exclusive things like Tyranitar? How far in the future is it, is it still in 3rd gen?

And, I must emphasize this again, but we don't know what this meta will be like. Assuming legendaries aren't included, that's a very large part of the 3rd gen meta, so we can't compare it to that, and we can't compare it to the PokeMMO meta, because of how radically different they'll be.

If you simply must stick with a "Finished PokeMMO meta" idea, at the very least be specific in what that is. If not, for the love of god, change it to PokeMMO meta or standard 3rd gen, because I have no idea what you want and it's not explained well enough.

[spoiler]And no, "just do 5th gen instead then" isn't a response to this complaint.[/spoiler]

 

 A theoretical finished PokeMMO metagame is the metagame with every Pokemon, move and skill implemented, but with the changes that PokeMMO did to certain aspects (for instance Breeding Mechanics: PokeMMO uses hybrid move inheritance mechanics, combining all possible Egg Moves and Move Tutor Moves from Generations 2-5, and Moves obtained from Leveling , TM/HM Moves from Generation 3, in order to provide a massive possible inherited movepool for every Pokémon.)

 

So it's close to Gen III, but not exactly.

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Tranzmaster

Tranzmaster

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in b4 jumpeon

 

Rules:

 

- The Pokémon has to be completely new, so not based on another Pokémon nor a pre-evolution nor an evolution of an existing Pokémon.

 

Since 'Jumpeon' is considered to be an Eeveelution, all those entries will be disqualified.

 

 

 

 

PS: Do not post entries in this thread, as stated in the OP. (This includes troll entries)

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Senile

Senile

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A theoretical finished PokeMMO metagame is the metagame with every Pokemon, move and skill implemented, but with the changes that PokeMMO did to certain aspects (for instance Breeding Mechanics: PokeMMO uses hybrid move inheritance mechanics, combining all possible Egg Moves and Move Tutor Moves from Generations 2-5, and Moves obtained from Leveling , TM/HM Moves from Generation 3, in order to provide a massive possible inherited movepool for every Pokémon.)

 

So it's close to Gen III, but not exactly.

How was this information not considered important enough to actually be addressed in the contest thread itself to begin with?

Also, you're contradicting yourself entirely. You say that a "Finished PokeMMO metagame" includes changes PokeMMO made to certain aspects, but you say it includes every pokemon. However, a PokeMMO meta will not include legendaries, due to the decision by the devs to limit their availability.

Not only that, but assuming this is an OU metagame, where is the banlist? If this will include legendaries, including all the blatantly overpowered ones, do you have a list referencing what is Uber and what isn't? Do we include Uber pokemon, and this isn't OU based?

Should we just use Smogon's 3rd gen uber list? If so, what's the point of even making this PokeMMO related, if we're going to use a 3rd gen list anyway? I don't think you realize JUST how big the changes in PokeMMO ARE standard to standard 3rd gen, the differences are far too extreme, especially RIDICULOUS things like the 4th gen sandstorm mechanics, buffing Tyranitar to absurd levels. Simply using a generic 3rd gen banlist just seems lazy, and completely ignores just how much is actually changed. No, it's not "close to gen III but not exactly", it's far more complicated than that.

And another thing you have to realize, people are going to have to make up this non-existent metagame in their head. Since it does not actually exist, we don't actually know what it would be like. We don't know what would be common, what would be non-existent, etc.; And once again, please do not use the standard 3rd gen meta as a reference, because there are major enough differences to warrant that not being a reliable enough source. And once again, if you're going to go that far anyway, just use standard 3rd gen. It's not that hard.

Keep in mind the fact it doesn't exist also means absurd amount of work. For a 100% accurate analysis, people are going to have to spend hours upon hours digging through bulbapedia, finding egg moves/tutor moves available to pokemon that aren't in yet in order to properly determine just how useful their theoretical pokemon would be in this theoretical metagame. For example, a lot of pokemon get Superpower in PokeMMO, while they wouldn't in standard 3rd gen. This puts pokemon weak to fighting moves at a more disadvantaged position than in standard 3rd gen. However, to properly analyze all the counters and make tweaks as necessary so the pokemon is still useful without being broken, they have to individually research which pokemon can learn what, simply because finding that out in PokeMMO isn't as simple as it is in other metagames.

Sure, you could just say "Just do it in 5th gen", but that doesn't excuse the fact the other option is far much more work and borderline impossible to accurately examine, when it really doesn't have to be.

As someone else said, this is a LOT of work for very minimal payoff. I'd do something like this for fun, if the options I had to work with weren't incredibly boring to me (5th gen) or just far more work than it should be (PokeMMO "Finished). That is just my opinion, but I figured I'd throw it in regardless.
 

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Tranzmaster

Tranzmaster

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Text
 

 

There are valid points in your arguments, I'm currently discussing it, I'll get to you ASAP.

 

 

i have some questions if youre willing to answer plz PM me. Help will be much appreciated

 

You can post your questions in this thread or send me a PM with the questions.

 

 

will not drawing a sprite along with the concept put us at a disadvantage?

 

great idea btw

 

The theory is far more important then the art, since this isn't an art contest. And even if you create a sprite, it might still be a risk if it looks bad.

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Tranzmaster

Tranzmaster

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It's a fun idea but like Senile said the wording is bad, what is the PokéMMO meta? Do we consider Choice Band or just the current meta, do we consider Legendaries? Etc, I hope this will be adressed.

 

Yeah, I'll be completely honest: We had divided opinions as well about this in Staff when trying to pick the meta for the Event,  but we decided to go with the PokeMMO meta and Gen V. We might change it in a few hours, I'm currently bringing it up again, and trying to get as much input from Staff as I can.

 

Couldn't possibly be worse than the stupid bullshit Smogon comes up with.

 

I mean a Grass/Ghost type with Shell Smash and Sacred Fire? Really?

 

The idea for the event was obviously in terms of process based on Smogons CAP (but of course different as well in the way it's without the rounds and polls, now it's more or less all at once). But we decided to give this Event a try since there are some very good competetive players on PokeMMO who could really come up with something great.

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Skeletor

Skeletor

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Every point senile made

This, so much this.

I would love to enter this but i'm not prepared to dedicating the next 2 weeks digging around and theorizing the metagame when i already know next to nothing about gen 3 except from pokemmo, other than that it's a really good idea.

[spoiler] I would only be in it to draw a cool picture anyway [/spoiler]

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Tranzmaster

Tranzmaster

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The rules have been changed.

 

Instead of creating a theoretical Pokemon in a theoretical finished PokeMMO or Gen V metagame, contestants now create a Pokemon in a Gen III, IV or Gen V metagame.

 

Senile included some valid points which we thought about as well before we posted the event and we had divided opinions on it as well in Staff, however we did go with the PokeMMO metagame idea because it might be something worth trying out if it wasn't much of a problem for the players and it would be relevant.

 

We still had a big discussion now in Staff, and still with divided opinions to change to idea, but we chose to make the change the rules in favor of the players/contestants wants/needs. If the arguments included in community's feedback are valid, we're happy to change the rules in favor of them.

 

While the event might be slightly less relevant to PokeMMO, we think that community's entertainment should be prior to event relevance. (and you can't say it's completely unrelated)

 

That being said, I do disagree on some points:

 

Also, you're contradicting yourself entirely. You say that a "Finished PokeMMO metagame" includes changes PokeMMO made to certain aspects, but you say it includes every pokemon. However, a PokeMMO meta will not include legendaries, due to the decision by the devs to limit their availability.
 

 

You're implying that you already know how legendaries are going to be implemented. Sometimes assumptions based on nothing can be dangerous. It is already confirmed that legendaries will be implemented and catcheable, however you don't know whether they're going to be tradeable, if you'll be able to catch multiple, and if they respawn. But you're assuming to know the answer on all those questions, since you're stating the meta will not include legendaries and you're assuming the devs are going to limit their availability. 

 

The only thing you do know if that they're going to be implemented and they're going to be catcheable, so they should be included in the metagame. And even that doesn't matter, since the community decides the OU/BL list.

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Tranzmaster

Tranzmaster

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Isn't this a bit too difficult for people who don't know english THAT well?

I mean... My first language isn't english and I have a hard time understanding things you're explaining in the rules.

Also , in what post do we enter our  entries?

 

Feel free to send me a PM, I'd be happy to help you on understanding the rules (If possible even in your native language.)

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