[Denied]Changes to the HM's (Flash/Dig)

[CoolKnightST]

This might be an extreem suggestion but I was wondering what do you think if we change the HM's a little bit so they become a little bit more usefull. I'm not even sure it's technical possible but just go with it for now.

 

Replacing Flash

 

Flash has always been an really intressting an special HM move in the pokémon world. Saidly enouge it doesn't provide a combat options for your pokémon making it really difficult to make the move usefull when you only have 4 moves for each pokémon available. Even the concept of Flash is nice. It just doesn't provide the things you expect from a move like that. That's why I want to suggest to replace the move HM05 by another move. In this suggestion I suggest to replace it by the TM move Dig. An move that opens a lot more options in both the map as competive use.

 

But how about Flash than? Well flash get replaced by a key item namely "Lantern". This item will compleetly replace the function of flash outside combat.

 

 

Rock Smash switches in Kanto

 

 

To shake things up a little bit. The HM move Rock Smash will now be unlocked after beating the first gym. In Kanto you will now recieve the HM from an old man when you try to enter the first gym. This directly provides you an move help you battle Brock creating an really intressting opening & use for the first HM you get provided with. The position in Hoenn remains unchanged.

 

 

The HM Dig

 

In Kanto you can unlock the functionality of Dig after beating the 6th gym. That was the gym that previously unlocked Rock Smash for you. I suggest you now gain Dig on the moment you normaly recieve Rock Smash.

 

For Hoenn you unlock Dig on the 2th gym as replacement for Flash. However to compensate you will get be provided with the HM a bit later in the game.

 

 

Changing the function of Dig

 

 

This suggestion is again technical questionable but it would be nice now Dig becomes an HM move the function also changes. My idea is that certain stairs in caves are collapsed & you now need dig to use them.

 

To compensate for this change the pokémon move Teleport will now function as the old Dig when you are located in a building or a cave. You will still teleport to the last visited pokémon center when outside a building or cave. 

 

 

Escape Rope

 

Because the Dig changes theoreticly this would make Escape Rope a more needed item in the game. So basicly we could reduce the price a little bit to compensate that. However in this ballance state of the game where Dig basicly isn't available for new players it's just a luxery change after all.

 

 

How about TM28?

 

Currently the TM28 Dig can be bought in the market of Viridian City. I suggest to replace it with another similar TM. I'm thinking about the move Mud Shot.

 

Pro & Coins

 

+

• An more functional HM move
• Better ballance overal
• Less HM slave centric pokémon
• More competive options for the HM

 

- 

• It's different compaired to the original pokémon games
• Might now be technical possible
• Their might be some issues for ballancing out the progress you make on the map.

 

 

End

 

This suggestion might not be a traditional as most other suggestions. It's not like we I even have confirmation if it's possible. Rom manipulation up to that level can be very tricky. I known changes like this are possible in a rom hack but their it's already really difficult to pull off. I'm not sure we have the tools to implement something complex like that or that anyone even like the idea in the first place. However if a change like this is possible it could be something that can seperate this game compaired to other pokémon MMO's. I currently can't come up with a ballance issue regarding a change but if their are. Just let me known.

 

 

Discuss

[Tyrone]

I really like the format of this sugestion, you make very clear what you want to happen.

While it is possible to alter game mechanics, I do not see much reason to apply them to this particular sugestion.

 

My main question about this is though: How does the player benefit from these changes?

 

I haven't heard any complaints about Flash, Dig or Rock Smash (other than the fact that the battle effects of those moves are really bad).

[CoolKnightST]

 

How does the player benefit from these changes?

I can see several other pros that I didn't mentioned in the first post. One of them I can think about is just by talking about Kanto early is the access of pokémon you can use this HM on. I give the example from having Rock Smash compaired to Flash

Up to the first gym:

 

Before the first gym only 2 pokémon can directly learn this move while you catch them.

 

• Bulbasaur (Flash, Rock Smash)
• Charmander (Rock Smash)
• Squirtle (Rock Smash)
• Pidgey (N/A)

• Rattata (Rock Smash)
• Caterpie (Flash only on final evolution)
• Weedle (Flash only on final evolution, Rock Smash only on final evolution)
• Spearow (N/A)
• Mankey (Rock Smash)
• Pikachu (Flash, Rock Smash)

 

But we have to concider that you aren't going to use Flash before the 2th gym. What's kinda strange concept wise since you unlock the dam thing after beating the first gym. But it was a concept ever since red & blue and I'm not going to wonder why they did it in the first place. Well let's continue:

 

That are 7 pokémon more

 

• Nidoran(m) (Rock Smash)
• Nidoran(f) (Rock Smash)
• Jigglypuff (Flash)

• Zubat (N/A)
• Geodude (Rock Smash)
• Paras (Flash, Rock Smash)
• Clefairy (Flash, Rock Smash)

• Ekans (N/A)
• Sandshrew (Rock Smash)

• Bellsprout (Flash)
• Abra (Flash)
• Meowth (N/A)
• Oddish (Flash)
• Diglett (Rock Smash)
• Drowzee (Flash)

 

In total you can only catch 9 pokémon that can learn Flash (butterfree & beedrill not included). For Rock Smash you can learn it to 10 pokémon (beedrill not included). However both 3 of the starters can learn it. This combined that it actualy provide combat & more of the early pokémon you catched can learn it. The HM will be a lot easyer to use than Flash both combat as non combat. This makes the chance that a player has to catch a pokémon just for using the HM less likely. I also want to point out that the pokémons that actualy can learn Flash. Are also the pokémon that are more difficult to catch or are located on location or requirements where a new player will probaly not think about (Pikachu, Butterfree, Beedrill, Jigglypuff, Clefairy, Abra, ...).

 

But this is just one argument. Their probaly a lot of more that can be mentioned.

[XelaKebert]

TM 28 is also obtained in the storyline once the player reaches Cerulean City and beats the Rocket hiding behind the house with the officer in front of it. The thing about Flash is that you will still need to have beaten the 2nd Gym and also gotten Cut in order to get to it as it is in an area accessible via Diglett's  Tunnel on Route 2. After you have obtained Flash it is then needed to navigate Rock Tunnel. The order in which HMs become obtainable directly correlate to where you should be in the story and what obstacle you will need to overcome. In this case, Flash is needed after you have beaten the 2nd Gym, or 3rd if you want to wait, in order to progress in the story. Rock Smash is not needed to progress in the story until you get to the Sevii Islands, which is why you don't get the chance to obtain it until later in the game. The other purpose of this spacing is to allow you to notice areas off the beaten path where items are hidden, but that you can come back to later when you have the means to get to them. The core spacing was designed to give you the tools you need to progress when you need them and allow for exploration later, when the means to explore a certain area are available to you, rather than give you everything up front.

[CoolKnightST]

I'm aware you recieve TM28 in the storyline. I forgot to mention it in the main topic. Don't believe their wheren't any grafical changes that indicated the use of Dig their. So a small text change could already solve a change like this. 

 

You indeed get rewarded with the HM Flash on the moment the situation presented itself. But in the case that their is no situation for Rock Smash after the first gym isn't true. Their is a Rock Smash area located before Mt. Moon. entrance on Route 3. In the games HG & SS this area was used to farm certain items like:

• Blue Shard
• Green Shard
• Heart Scale
• Max Ether
• Red Shard 
• Revive
• Star Piece
• Yellow Shard

 

I only assume something similar like this would be implemented in the future. Rock Smash was always one of the known farming way to collect money. Having an early location like this could be verry intressting. I known this goes verry offtopic regarding the idea itself but this are just little pieces that eventually get chained together.

 

Edite: Other things I want to mention. Since whe are in a rock area the use of rock smash can be implemented earlyer in the game. 4/7 + the starters of the pokémon you can obtain can learn the move. So basicly we could add some rocks to block the entrance to route 3 as an alternative to the guy that keeps pushing you back to Brock's gym. Or we can add a rock haf way:

 

http://i.imgur.com/uE4WCXz.png

Edited October 18, 2015 by CoolKnightST

[XelaKebert]

The problem is that in Heart Gold and Soul Silver, you don't restart the storyline from the beginning. Once you've beaten the Johto league you can go over to Kanto and start up on the gyms there and the levels are scaled according to what your party is. We don't have that here and won't ever have that here. Everything you are mentioning brings me to the same point I brought up before. Each HM you receive is placed in a way so that you are able to get when you need it. Furthermore your point on Flash is off base. A move should not be removed just because no one uses it. Flash isn't used in competitive battling because it is not beneficial to competitive battling. That being said, it's very safe to say that this will not be happening at all.