PandaJJ
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Posts posted by PandaJJ
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We had two options to approach the question: what will the cutoff percentage be? The first option was to choose an arbitrary number, while the second option was to use a formula (the same one Smogon uses).
I love how you made it seem like the second option is not arbitray.
Option one: Choose an arbitrary number X. If a pokemon is used less than X% of the time, it is considered UU.
Option two: Choose arbitrary numbers X and Y. If the probability of seeing a pokemon in Y battles is less than X%, that pokemon is considered UU.If anything, option two is more arbitrary than option one. Then again, there is of course no way of deciding whether or not a pokemon is underused in a non-arbitrary way.
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Ok, so I have to conform with Pokemons with 26 IVs? 27 ? 28? While old players have godly Pokemons with 5x31 or 6x31 because they used the old sistems to clonate godly pokemons?
Unless you are breeding for hidden power, it is sufficient to know whether your pokemons IV is higher than whatever you want (say 25), which is usually already known if you catch pokemon at sufficiently high levels. The guide I linked you aims to teach you what to catch. Exact IVs is already confirmed to be implemented, so hopefully IV narrowing will soon be in the past. The fact that some older players (myself and many others excluded) have godly pokemon at their disposal is something we have to deal with - there is no way of balancing this out without breaking the game again.
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Ok ok, but the point is that I need 7kk 740k to create only 1 pokemon 5x31 with correct nature. The guide is very nice but how many time i need to collect that money with this process? For new players create a competitive team is so difficult.
Gilan's guide to how to make 5x31 pokemon is very good to give you an understanding of the breeding system, and how you can manipulate to give you whatever you want. It is NOT intended to be followed step-by-step by new/poor players, as this would take far too much time/money. Using amulet coin and vs seeker (with a paydayer) earns you a reasonable amount of money, enough to breed pokemon that can be used in comp. I will agian refer to my guide:
https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/51028-list-of-easy-to-catch-pokemon-from-different-egg-groups-and-their-locations/
I apologize for the misleading title, but the guide includes a section on how to breed comp pokemon for 200-300k, which is not a huge effort to obtain through the vs seeker. As a new player I realize you have yet much to learn about this game, and you will soon enough find that the breeding system is in no way bad, as long as you don't ask for 5x31 godly pokemon. -
IGN: PandaJJ
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Any strategy to follow on breeding a 5x31 or 6x31? Im a bit lost on having only one outcome.
If you really want 5x31 or 6x31, you should take a look at this guide:
https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/49440-the-new-breeding-guide/
If you think that's a waste of time, you can take a look at this (NOT for 5x31 pokemon):
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Sooo... time to close this thread?
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3700bp takes around a hour -.- i cant do 510 ev to a poke in a hour -.-
If you EV several pokemon at once, you will.
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So you can stop it with stall and hyper offensive? Wouldn't that mean balance is kind of useless now like it is in later gens?
So it can break a balanced team core walls if predicted right. It still has to outrun a magority of its offensive threats that can easily take advantage of it.
And espeed argument is irrelavant to me because of metagriss rhydone and others that can set up completely on it if spammed early.
Dnite speed is lacking and with the power cb set is only really effective. The mix set can break the walls that would wall other wise but then risk not hitting the major threats hard that it needs to. And without cb it's not ohkojng bulky water that it needs to survive the ice beam.
The cb set is the only issue from what I have seen. The mix is just a suprise factor but then can't hit and run hard at all and risks being beamed.
I'm sorry to break this to you, but all your statements so far have been irrelevant or false. If you want to have any impact, please make your comments:
1. Relevant
2. True
To begin with, you can give a reply to this post:
Throwing out the statement that many pokemon can SET UP on a freaking cb dnite, and then not defending it, is of no help in this discussion.Please list some of the things that are faster than dnite, can set up on dnite switching and carry hp ice/icebeam/icepunch. Because unless it satisfies all/most of that criteria, it really doesn't force dragonite to switch out and moreover, please tell me whether that set up can win someone a match.
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This forum... I can barely resist the temptation to reply to people who refuse to realize they are wrong, or post threads that are parodies of pointless threads, like:
"Suggestion: Brace brace. This brace makes it so that the baby is born holding a random brace. Make it cost 10k."
People, please.... -
510 ev's = 51 vitamins
51 vitamins * 3650 yen = 186150yen
1bp = 50yen in trade
186150/50 = 3723 BP.
First of all i see no reason for implementing this then we have vitamins -.- but if we should implement i think it should cost 3700Battle points or 186k Yen...
Or you could just say
Time it takes to EV train < Time it takes to farm 186k or 3700bp
Hence, this suggestion serves no purpose. -
I agree for mixednite as i said, but you'll have to make a choice, CB one or mixed one ? To check a CB one is simple, then the adversary will be normally able to play accordingly.
And you are right too when you says that there isn't much viable mixed sweepers in that meta. Then if we ban this, some walls will be much more safe, and i don't think it's a good thing. (I also noticed that some ppl arguing for the ban of dragonite are stall players, but nevermind).
"but it also has access to espeed, which is extremely broken. Unlike other banders, dnite is not done when it has broken your core - it can come back to revenge kill and even sweep your entire team with espeed. After having broken a single wall, it is easy to weaken the opposing team to the point where dnite is unstoppable. This feature sets dnite apart from any other bander."
I said it too, the main reason why nite is very often played in this meta is his excellent priority move (in a meta where it lacks severely priority moves. >inb4 the problem is the meta ???). Then it's double utility : priority move user and very good sweeper.
If this is the only problem, what about banning only espeed + dragonite combinaison ?
I'm sorry for the confusion, my post was mostly a response to Fred's arguments, since you brought that up.
As for saying that player's that argue for the ban are "stallplayers", that is wishfull thinking on your part. Many players can switch their playstyle. Most of the relevant arguments are objective anyways, so who states them is not relevant. A rather bigger issue is that "offensive" players fail to realize the necessity of the ban, because they are biased. Furthermore, you might have noticed that there is a slowbro discussion going on - not only offensive threats are being discussed, but anything that might be broken.
Also, it's not the fact that dnite has access to espeed that makes it broken, but how much damage it can dish out with it. The lack of priority users is an isolated issue, and there is nothing preventing us from banning whatever probelms this may cause - at the very least, the consequences of banning dnite are irrelevant in the question of whether dnite is broken or not. -
I'm on my phone, so this will be ugly:Seems like a quite quick decision, and i didn't see any logical anwser to fredrichnietze's good post.
Dragonite can't come in game as easily as salamence (useless ability in this metagame) and he needs to be Choice banded to threaten everyone. Then a perfect prediction is needed, because he won't be able to come lots of time. It's up to the player.
The pokemon can't spam only dragon claw as it was said, and a fire move sometimes on steel types. Lot's of pokemons will resist (not resist, but the move won't be super effective) dragonclaw and have an ice move. Also Dragonite isn't very fast, lot's of pokemons can outspeed him. Superpower and espeed will be use in those cases, and will be stall by many other pokemons, firstly by ghosts.
In conclusion a good team built & prediction can deal with that threat, for me.
Edit : + a great moveset is good to keep a quite offensive meta'. If you ban nite and not gengar, it won't be logical at all. Then ban both, and best movesets of the game are gone. Rip anticipation, Welcome back stall/safe meta.
Fred did have the only relevant post arguing against a dnite ban, however it did contain quite a few flaws:
To sum it up, he claimed that dnite's only viable set is cb, that any other cb user is as dangerous as dnite, and that dnite did not have enough swith-in opportunities.
Firstly, ignoring dnite's mixed set is grave mistake, as it shits on pretty much anyhting that would wall its cb set. Dnite is generally more versatile than other cb'ers, none of which can really pull of a decent mixed, although it is obvious that banded dnite is the most critical set.
Secondly, dnite has a few perks over other cb'ers, even when considering only its cb set. Stab dclaw and better bulk/typing than most cb'ers might not be much, but it also has access to espeed, which is extremely broken. Unlike other banders, dnite is not done when it has broken your core - it can come back to revenge kill and even sweep your entire team with espeed. After having broken a single wall, it is easy to weaken the opposing team to the point where dnite is unstoppable. This feature sets dnite apart from any other bander.
Lastly, most of the things that could "prevent" dnite from coming in had to rely on hp ice or WoW. Arcanine can't even learn WoW, unlike what was stated, and dnite is by no means out of commision if it switches in on WoW - a cleric will bring it back to the game. If we have to go to the step where everything has to run hp ice to prevent dnite from ever coming in, it is hard to justify it staying. Also, he did not compare it to how what other banders can swith in on - except from WoW (which most banders don't mind thanks to guts/fire typing), other banders tend to not want to take any damage at all, unlike dnite which has some bulk.
Banning dnite is not a quick decison - ttar was banned literally within hours of the first OU official, and dnite has been analyzed over weeks now. The fact that this thread showed up this late has nothing to do with anything. -
Team preview could be nice to improve the strategic side of the game, but most of late game sweepers and trap-kill pokemons (dugtrio, magneton etc) will be far less effective.
Would it be possible to preview only 5/6 pokemons, keeping the pokemon on the 6th position of every teams hidden?
That completely defeats the purpose of team preview. Some people think that trappers, late game sweepers and reversal/flail users are uncompetetive. Not because they are overpowered, but because they can be exploited by hiding them from the opponent. Viewing only the first five pokemon is pretty much the same as not team preview, because you will generally switch between a core of 2-4 pokemon to hide these pokemon in the back anyways.
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My personal feeling about team preview:
Pros:
-Removes the necessity of scouting your opponent in an earlier round in a tournament. While most people switch their teams between rounds, there are still unfair situations where one player knows his opponents team, but not the other way around.
-Prevents typical magneton/dugtrio strategies. There is a dugtrio discussion going on, and while some people find it uncompetetive, most people realize it's not at all overpowered. However, there is a very annoying way of abusing these trappers - in combination with the point above, you can find out whether your opponent has blissey/snorlax or skarmory/forretress and lead with something that is countered by said pokemon. You can then immediately switch to the appropriate trapper and get rid of that pokemon immediately. With team preview, this is less likely to happen.
-Your opponent can not hide a pokemon in the back that plows through all but one or two of your pokemon, i.e. it is possible to find your win condition before it is too late. Currently it is impossible to know which pokemon you can't afford to lose untill you have lost it and is being swept.
Cons:
-Less pokemon might be viable for use. Without team preview, you can use a pokemon for its surprising effect, which is impossible with team previrew.
The points above all promise a more strategical metagame, at the cost of getting rid of some of the more obscure pokemon that are rarely seen anyways. I would really like to test team preview out, I think it has potential, but it remains to see to what degree it prevents diversity in teams.
The only downfall I can see to this is that it would not promote the use of gimmicky late-game sweeping tactics. For example, Belly Drum Linoone, Flail Pinsir, Reversal Medicham, among other things that don't have an effective standard set in OU.
On the other hand though it does promote the use of surprise tactics by commonly used pokemon. Pokes with large movesets will be more commonly used to avoid the rigors of simply being scouted during the preview.
How long do we allow the team preview to last though if it were implemented?
Then again, is the loss of flail pinsir a big loss? Can you ever imgine your opponent saying "wow, well played" after being swept by a flail/reversal pokemon? I would rather say it's healthy that these stategies are reduced.
As for how long the preview should say it is not really relevant, since you do note down your oppoents team before playing anyways.
2. Lack of diversity. Even with preview, would it really give you any valuable information? "Oh, this guy's running Dragonite/Metagross/Slowbro/Snorlax/Gengar/Arcanine, damn that Arcanine is kinda a surprise." We just don't have the options that later gens have. In 6th Gen, for instance, not knowing your opponent was running a rain team could totally rekt you from turn one. Similarly, knowing for a fact that your opponent has a full stall team is necessary to winning due to the fact that lots of walls/tanks can actually dish out reasonable damage in 6th gen. In pokemmo you find out these things naturally and slowly, since the metagame is less fast paced.I'm convinced that the current lack of viable pokemon is somewhat related to the lack of bans. Your suggestion of a team is a collection of the strongest pokemon in the current meta, many of which totally prevent the use of a lot of otherwise usable pokemon. Again, I'm interested to see how team preview would actually work in practice, but perhaps wait untill the initial OU tier has been determined.
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First Place: Choice between: Competitive Gift Shiny Starter ...
I assume this includes Johto starters :3
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Only those?
To begin with. I'm also really afraid of gyarados, although that requires some debate.
Btw, what the hell was this?
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespotdoublesvgc2015-209902581
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Any argument against a slowbro ban without the word "heracross" in it is pretty much invalid. And clearly, heracross is not enough to let this thing stay. Needs to go with dnite.
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Finally, the thread. Get this thing out our meta, now.
My own bias wants this baby to stay just to avoid a wall-based meta (best wallbreaker hands down), but again, it's just too damn strong.There are quite a few strong wallbreakers to replace dnite, although they lack dnite's nice defensive typing and bulk. Dnite is not only a wall breaker though, the banded set breaks the entire meta thanks to dclaw + espeed. There are also a couple of very strong attackers left (gyarados and metagross), which I think we have to look after dnite is gone. I also think we have to consider a slowbro ban after dnite is banned.
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30-31/0-3/23-26/30/25-27/22 modest sturdy fire15
400k, then
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Didn't wanna sell these Magnetons anyway.
30-31/0-3/23-26/30/25-27/22 modest sturdy fire15
300k for this
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Make that 400k for the magnemite
[Breed Guide] Breeder Catching
in Work In Progress Guides
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The flattery is real. I'm happy that people use this guide though, makes me feel less useless.