BurntZebra

wow

is it 6 am edt?

IGN: BurntZebra

Wait... Are you telling me a well constructed team can win duels? I refuse to believe this. Still not really convinced on dugtrio being banworthy just because of its limited uses, get pursuit trapped by heracross/metagross/aerodactyl and it can't really switch in on anything either, so basically you have to sack something to get dugtrio in vs a pokemon and then dugtrio could maybe kill something, even though heracross can run endure/reversal, metagross is bulky enough to take a cb earthquake, blaziken can run quick attack or endure/reversal, ursaring can run bulk up, and it doesn't really trap much besides that.

bump i guess

IGN: BurntZebra

IGN: BurntZebra finally made that stall team I'm sure you were all wanting to see [spoiler]Whiscash @ Leftovers Ability: Oblivious EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA Bold Nature - Toxic - Surf - Rest - Sleep Talk Instead of being one of those generic dragon dance whishcashes that everyone will be running, I decided to go with an interesting rest sleep talk whishcash to take on arcanine, armaldo, aggron, relicanth, and kangaskhan to an extent. Toxic messes up bellossom/grumpig/breloom switch ins which can be annoying to give a free switch in to. I went with bold and surf instead of impish and waterfall just so I could hit relicanth, arcanine, and armaldo harder because of their high base defense stats. Blissey (F) @ Leftovers Ability: Natural Cure EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe Bold Nature - Wish - Protect - Seismic Toss - Aromatherapy Oh good old utility blissey. It is great at absorbing most attacks from most attackers and can stall if the pokemon came in vs a toxic from whiscash/arcanine and gives my team healing support with wish and aromatherapy. Protect is also nice for choice banders like armaldo, aggron, medicham, and blaziken. Protect can even ohko a medicham that tries to hi jump kick me. Protect has some risks though since armaldo and blaziken can both run swords dance sets instead of a choice band and giving them a free turn to swords dance is never a good idea. I felt seismic toss was enough for this selection of pokemon. Blissey is too weak to hit most of the pokemon for better damage than seismic toss and there are no ghost types to ruin my fun. Arcanine @ Leftovers Ability: Intimidate EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe Bold Nature - Morning Sun - Toxic - Flamethrower - Extreme Speed A some what standard arcanine set on this team. Speed investment is for adamant breloom just so I can surprise a breloom who goes for a focus punch on the switch and then attempts to spore. Toxic wears down the other person's team, as there are only 3 things that are immune to toxic, and not really too worried about seviper either. Extreme speed is for reversal/flailers such as blaziken, medicham, kangaskhan, and zangoose. Flamethrower seemed like a necessary stab to hit most things for some what decent damage. Breloom @ Leftovers Ability: Effect Spore EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe Impish Nature - Superpower - Spore - Leech Seed - Protect Oh this silly mushroom with fists, it can be quite the annoying set to some teams just because of leech seed and protect, forcing people to really think what to do. Speed investment is to outspeed adamant armaldo, since I don't think there's too much of a reason to run jolly armaldo, takes away from its speed too much and still gets outsped by almost all standard sets on the pokemon in this pool. Spore can instantly make one pokemon on the other person's team useless which is always great. Combination of leech seed and protect gives me some what reliable recovery and can stall whiscash, even if it has bounce. Superpower is for aggron, kangaskhan, breloom, armaldo, relicanth, and blissey. Armaldo @ Leftovers Ability: Battle Armor EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def Impish Nature - Rock Slide - Superpower - Swords Dance - Knock Off I wasn't really that sure on armaldo just because of its low amount of switch ins, but I think its a necessary part of this team. It gives me switch ins to kangaskhan, zangoose, seviper, and any cb pokemon that is locked into a move that armaldo resists. Rock slide is a nice stab to hit arcanine, armaldo, grumpig, and seviper with. Superpower is to hit aggron, zangoose, breloom, blissey, kangaskhan, relicanth, and blaziken, if accuracy is an issue with rock slide. Swords dance is mostly to pressure less offensive pokemon like blissey and arcanine that can take armaldo's attacks to an extent. Knock off is useful in regards that it furthers the stall along with toxic support from the rest of my team. It will make pokemon like bellossom/breloom think about switching in , and nothing really likes having its item knocked off either. Grumpig @ Leftovers Ability: Thick Fat EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe Calm Nature - Whirlwind - Rest - Psychic - Sleep Talk The last, but not least, component of this stall team. Grumpig lets me take on blaziken, which would be a big problem for my team otherwise, and whirlwind can force out calm mind grumpig or blissey as well. Grumpig is also my medicham switch in if I can't get it to reveal its choice band move with my protect users. I was a bit paranoid about breloom when I was building this team, so I wanted to have something that could potentially surprise breloom that thinks its safe to set up a substitute or leech seed vs a sleeping grumpig. [/spoiler]

I don't really think its fair to just point and umbreon and say its the cause of not many special attackers in the UU tier. I mean we have chansey, a god tier special wall that never dies to special attacks. Even though chansey doesn't really get a lot of use in UU, not completely sure why, it also discourages people from running multiple special attackers, as a surprise chansey can really put a halt to your special sweeping. Then there are other UU pokemon that have high usage that prevent special attackers from working to their fullest extent. Kangaskhan has great special bulk and some what reliable recovery with early bird rest, and has the physical pressure to take on most special attackers. Steelix also deserves a mention as it stops most of the calm minders you listed before, with a resistance to psychic+bug+ghost, the three common attacking types on psychic type calm minders. The other thing I see happening in UU is that special attackers are just inferior to physical attackers in most cases. Base powers of special attacks are lower on average than physical attacks, special attackers have lower base special attack than physical attackers do with attack, and physical attackers have multiple options in increasing their damage output. Bulk up, swords dance, belly drum, curse, dragon dance, and choice band can all boost your attack to very high levels, compared to the special attacking side where you're basically left with calm mind or petaya to boost your special attack, neither of which are really on the same magnitude as the physical options. It's still possible that the uu tier will shift again to special attackers to take on the many physical attackers that can easily get ko'ed by a petaya'ed manectric or whatever other special sweeper that might be the new flavor of the month.

Where were those pokeyen prizes in officials that were talked about in the "change in prizes" thread? Squirtle kind of made it sound like that there would be some pokeyen prizes eventually, at least that's what I remember him saying roughly in the old thread. edit:

Well it kind of does. I mean I just listed off all of the UU pokemon that can handle umbreon very easily. I'm no mathematician but let's say my list of pokemon is 85% of the UU tier and the other 15% are walled by umbreon. If a pokemon walls 15% of the UU tier, it's not really "unhealthy" necessarily. Does umbreon limit team building? Not really, people are still running slowking a lot, even though you say it "stalls" it. Hypno and misdreavus still see usage as well, similar to that of umbreon's usage actually.

I'm going to list the pokemon that stall or force out umbreon right now below: Blastoise Fearow Arbok Sandslash Nidoqueen Nidoking Ninetales (will o wisp) Vileplume Diglett Golduck Primeape Poliwrath Tentacruel Golem Muk Kingler Hitmonlee Kangaskhan Seaking Scyther Pinsir Lapras Flareon Kabutops Ariados Crobat Lanturn Ampharos Azumarill Jumpluff Misdreavus (perish trap set, only if umbreon lacks taunt) Gligar Steelix Granbull Scizor Shuckle Sneasel Piloswine Houndoom Donphan Stantler Hitmontop Shiftry Swellow Breloom Vigoroth Ninjask (maybe?) Mawile Aggron Swalot Sharpedo Camerupt Trapinch (arena trap+superpower op) Cacturne Altaria Zangoose Whiscash Crawdaunt Cradily Armaldo Absol Glalie Walrein Relicanth .... Basically what I'm getting at is umbreon is weak vs so many things and doesn't really have any offense to back up its ability to wall special attackers that aren't frail psychic types. Umbreon is similar to shuckle in some regards. Shuckle walls some pokemon with its massive defense/special defense stats but it doesn't really do that much in return. Umbreon gives free switch ins to many of the pokemon I listed above and can't really damage them with a 40 base power pursuit either.

bump

This team was quite fun to build actually. Seems to cover most of the pokemon in the tier to an extent anyways. IGN: BurntZebra [spoiler]Ninetales @ Leftovers Ability: Flash Fire EVs: 156 HP / 252 SpA / 100 Spe Modest Nature - Extrasensory - Flamethrower - Hidden Power [Grass] - Will-O-Wisp I went with a bit more of an attacker ninetales instead of trying to set up sunny day and calm mind in attempts to sweep. Extrasensory hits tentacruel+thick fat hariyama. Flamethrower for the obligatory stab attack for hitmonlee/shiftry/manectric and hidden power grass to hit the many water types and lunatone in this round of pokemon. Will o wisp most likely won't be used much just because I'll try to attack but it can be helpful if hitmonlee comes in vs me. The speed is for adamant shiftry, which could be a problem depending on moveset, although it can only explode on ninetales to do any damage, would like to avoid that if possible. Max special attack and a modest nature lets me take a big chunk out of hariyama with extrasensory and makes hp grass very punishing to any water type that comes in vs it. Shiftry @ Choice Band Ability: Chlorophyll EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Jolly Nature - Leaf Blade - Explosion - Low Kick - Double-Edge An underrated pokemon in the current UU tier, shiftry. Although some probably avoided using shiftry because of weezing, I still think it usable. Double edge does a fair amount to weezing and explosion ohkos everything in the pokemon pool as well. Leaf blade is the obligatory stab to hit the water types in the tier and low kick is for those rare enemy shiftrys that try to get a switch in vs my leaf blade. Spinda @ Leftovers Ability: Own Tempo EVs: 252 HP / 76 SpD / 180 Spe Calm Nature - Wish - Protect - Encore - Disable I'm always a sucker for a nice utility pokemon. Even though spinda's base stats are quite... underwhelming, to say the least, it is still enough to be useful on a team. The speed evs lets it outspeed azumarill in case it tries to come in vs wish. Encore is useful for things like pain split weezing, bulk up hariyama, calm mind lunatone, and curse swampert. A combination of protect+encore+disable lets spinda cause many things to struggle out, or force them to switch out as well. The special defense is to take hits from manectric and tentacruel better. DoctorPBC (Weezing) @ Leftovers Ability: Levitate EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD Careful Nature - Return - Rest - Sleep Talk - Curse uwotm8 pbc? Rest and sleep talk weezing is legit yo. Rest and Sleep talk give me a relatively reliable recovery method and only one pokemon resists return, lunatone, and my team seems to pressure lunatone enough. Curse lets me keep up with bulk up hariyama and curse swampert, and prevents me from being sub swords dance sandslash bait. The special defense investment lets me survive 2-3 thunderbolts from manectric or 3 surfs from tentacruel. Sharpedo @ Salac Berry Ability: Rough Skin EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Modest Nature - Surf - Destiny Bond - Hidden Power [Electric] - Endure Sharpedo gives my team another answer to lunatone, giving my weezing a bit more breathing room to set up a curse sweep. Surf is a great stab and hp electric hits water types besides swampert for super effective damage. Endure and destiny bond let me take down anything in the tier, which is always helpful. Hariyama @ Leftovers Ability: Guts EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpD / 4 Spe Adamant Nature - Superpower - Return - Rest - Sleep Talk Oh hariyama, a fallen comrade in the UU tier. With no ghost types to hinder a two attack set on hariyama, a rest sleep talk set seemed to be a viable option. Rest activates hariyama's guts which makes superpower and return hit quite hard. Max attack investment to hit as hard as possible and max special defense investment to give me another answer to manectric and ninetales. [/spoiler]

bump

can't imagine linoone would be full hp after belly drumming, inb4 resto chesto belly drum linoone. I was doing some calcs in a bit of a hurry and probably made a few mistakes, think i was calcing tbolt vs starmie with a raichu with sp atk investment by accident

IGN: BurntZebra [spoiler] Shuckle @ Leftovers Ability: Sturdy EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpD Careful Nature - Rest - Knock Off - Encore - Toxic One of my favorite UU pokemon to use, but it often leads to time clauses with pp stalls. Shuckle has massive defense and special defense which allows it to survive any non boosted attack. It can come in vs claydol, exploud, swellow, slaking, vileplume, swalot, and donphan to an extent, which makes it an important defensive part of my team. Encore helps vs things that try to set up like vileplume, golduck, crawdaunt, or linoone. Toxic and knock off hit everything except swalot (darn you sticky hold). Vileplume @ Leftovers Ability: Chlorophyll EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe Bold Nature - Giga Drain - Sleep Powder - Synthesis - Aromatherapy Physically defensive vileplume is quite underrated in many regards. It gives my team a solid answer to crawdaunt, which shuckle and donphan can't take on. It can also put a pokemon to sleep if need be and hits most pokemon for neutral damage at worst with its stab giga drain. It also can do some damage to machamp and donphan, two pokemon that can be problematic to this pool of pokemon. Slaking @ Choice Band Ability: Truant EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe Adamant Nature - Return - Pursuit - Rock Slide - Slack Off Slaking seemed like an obvious choice to me, just because of its massive attack stat to use and decent bulk. Return hits ridiculously hard while pursuit lets me take down starmie quickly if it tries to switch out. Rock slide was mostly for shuckle, but since shuckle will be on all teams, it is an important pokemon to have coverage for. Slack off gave me an option to heal vs something that was running protect so I wouldn't lose momentum entirely when slaking gets protected on. Donphan @ Leftovers Ability: Sturdy EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def Impish Nature - Earthquake - Superpower - Toxic - Protect Donphan gives me a nice answer to linoone, something that will probably be often used. Max defense donphan is able to survive any of linoones attacks at +6 attack and ko back with superpower quite easily. +6 252+ Atk Linoone Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 163-193 (82.7 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. Protect+toxic helps get some damage vs claydol and donphan that won't really care much about donphans other attacks. Starmie @ Leftovers Ability: Natural Cure EVs: 252 HP / 116 SpA / 140 Spe Timid Nature - Surf - Thunderbolt - Recover - Confuse Ray Starmie is my main answer to shuckle, as it has natural cure to heal toxic while switching out and doesn't really mind losing its leftovers too much, having recover to regain hp lost. The speed investment is to outspeed max speed raichu/slaking/linoone. Confuse ray might seem like a weird choice but if I'm not really sure what the other person will send in, confuse ray can really turn the tables when they take confusion damage and I get a free switch into one of my other pokemon. Raichu @ Leftovers Ability: Static EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD Calm Nature - Thunderbolt - Wish - Protect - Hidden Power [Ice] Raichu is the final piece of the team, giving me another counter to starmie and golduck, which helps immensely on my team. Wish and Protect give it some what reliable healing and helps vs choice banded pokemon and slaking. Thunderbolt and hp ice has perfect coverage vs all the pokemon in this round of pokemon. The special defense investment lets it take 3 surfs from timid starmie and can 2hko starmie and golduck in return. Wish support is quite important for donphan as donphan is the only pokemon with no recovery on my team, and the team relies on it to some degree to take on linoone, machamp, and swellow. [/spoiler]

or just run... counter encore illumise

Watching out for those hp ice/aerial ace sceptiles that will outspeed you?

anyone up for an ou or uu wager?

bump

my 10/10 entry right here was so tempted to make a stall team but I resisted have fun reading it IGN: BurntZebra [spoiler]Camerupt Jolly Magma Armor 252 atk 4 sp atk 252 speed Choice band - Explosion - Earthquake - Overheat - Rock Slide Glalie Naive Inner Focus 252 sp atk 4 atk 252 speed Leftovers - Spikes - Taunt - Ice beam - Explosion Xatu Timid Synchronize 4 hp 252 sp atk 252 speed Leftovers - Calm Mind - Psychic - Heat wave - Giga Drain Metagross Adamant Clear Body 4 hp 252 attack 252 speed Leftovers - Explosion - Meteor mash - Earthquake - Pursuit Illumise Impish Oblivious 252 hp/252 def/4 speed Leftovers - Wish - Protect - Counter - Encore Lanturn Modest Volt Absorb 124 speed/200 sp atk/160 def/24 sp def Leftovers - Heal Bell - Thunderbolt - Surf - Toxic I wasn't exactly sure what I was wanting when I was first making this team. A few pokemon stuck out to me such as metagross and ursaring as they are quite prominent in the current OU meta, but I wanted to be a bit different with my team. A stall team would have been plausible with skarmory and lanturn, creating a quite nice defensive core, but that wasn't really what I wanted either. I decided I wanted to use multiple explosions from camerupt,metagross, and glalie, spikes support from glalie, and wish support from illumise to help xatu sweep through teams. There weren't many good answers to xatu in the 16 usable pokemon which made it seem like xatu was the best choice to sweep with a few calm minds. Camerupt can explode on pretty much anything in the pool of pokemon, barring misdreavus, and get a kill. Ideal targets for exploding would be solrock, lanturn, flareon, and dodrio. These pokemon can hinder xatu to a degree, either because of their bulk to take a +1 psychic or heat wave and come back with a kill. Dodrio can revenge kill xatu quite well with stab double edge and pursuit so I would want to avoid that. Glalie was the second component of the explosion core on my team. It is important in setting up spikes and taunt to stop the enemy team from setting up spikes or screens or boosts. Again, glalie can explode on something that is deemed problematic for my team, based on what I see during the match. Xatu is the star of the team with base 95 speed and nice coverage with stab psychic, heat wave, and giga drain, boosted by calm mind. It should be able to sweep once the rest of the team has done its job. Metagross is the final exploding member of the team, serving an important role in countering dodrio, with pursuit, makes dodrio think twice about switching in on anything, as it will take over 50% from a pursuit from metagross when switching out. Illumise might seem like a weird choice but I think it has some potential. Its fairly unique typing lets it stall out some sceptile sets and encore can make sure my switch in to sceptile gets a free switch. Counter is there for the quick ohko vs metagross. Wish and protect give it reliable recovery while healing my team when needed. The final member of the team is lanturn. I wasn't completely set on lanturn since it didn't really seem to fit on the team but I think it is a great choice. It gives the team a much needed resist for water+fire types and has great coverage vs most of the available pokemon. The speed creep on lanturn is for blastoise, metagross, camerupt, ursaring, and solrock. I wanted to make sure lanturn could survive a double edge from dodrio if need be and be able to ko it back so xatu can sweep unhindered. Toxic is for when I'm uncertain what the other person might switch in and for opposing lanturns specifically. The team relies on gaining momentum through multiple explosions and doesn't provide too many opportunities to lose momentum either, with encore on illumise and toxic on lanturn. [/spoiler]

seems like a hasty lum berry counter dunsparce would beat any physical attacker dunsparce in a 1v1

Yeah at first I was thinking sceptile would be ok in UU just because of vileplume/exeggutor but it is quite easy to endeavor plume down to low hp where it will be in range of dying from hp fire/eq/whatever coverage move you want. I still think its worth testing though

bump

>sleep talk curselax on ORAS UU team >no thanks