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Vaeldras

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Posts posted by Vaeldras

    [OU Discussion] Arena Trap/Dugtrio (Dugtrio Banned to Ubers)

    in Competition Archive

    Posted

    Because I never explained why XD (i'll try to do that later)

    I still think Dug fits Uber Support characteristics, so does it really matter if I don't consider Dug unhealthy?

     

    Anyways, the debate seems to be more about arena trap now.

     

    I don't think the council is concerned about dugtrio's viability with no arena, it's pretty safe to assume there will be no reason to use it in any tier without that ability.

    If they turned this into an arena trap discussion is because they probably agreed dugtrio needs to go (lemme know if i'm wrong).

     

    The question we have now is: are diglett and trapinch going to be a problem with dugtrio gone?

    Imo it would be foolish to just ban dugtrio when diglett works just as well.

    Trapinch is just too slow to punish anything that isn't heavily damaged, i highly doubt it would be viable, also it doesn't work like dig/trio so it would no doubt require some testing.

    Is it even worth the time though?

    [OU Discussion] Arena Trap/Dugtrio (Dugtrio Banned to Ubers)

    in Competition Archive

    Posted

    I am not opposed to banning Diglett under Uber Support characteristics like Dugtrio.

    However, just because something can support his team thanks to an uncompetitive ability, that doesn't mean that something fits Uber Support characteristics automatically. Otherwise, Wynaut and Trapinch would have more usage.

     

    Does banning AT means Dugtrio is going to fall to UU (by usage) instead of going to Ubers?

     

    Nu, no doubt.

    But i still fail to understand how you don't consider dutrio to be unhealthy

    [OU Discussion] Arena Trap/Dugtrio (Dugtrio Banned to Ubers)

    in Competition Archive

    Posted

    I don't think Dugtrio is unhealthy. However, I do agree with most you guys that claim he fits Uber Support characteristics.

     

    I don't like the idea of banning an ability. I think this kind of ban is mostly based on speculations and we would then have to consider all kind of stuff. Would we allow Lanturn in NU if it doesn't have Volt Absorb? Is Magneton UU if it doesn't have Magnet Pull? 

     

    I would like to add that even though Diglett seems to be a decent replacement to Dugtrio that doesn't make Trapinch banworthy. Just because a pokemon can trap that doesn't make it banworthy. Otherwise, we would have to ban Magneton, Nosepass, Wynaut and even complex ban Pursuit to some extant. No half-measure please; banning AT and not banning Shadow Tag is ridiculous to me. 

     

    252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Wynaut: 142-168 (70.2 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 32 HP / 252+ Def Wynaut: 142-168 (81.6 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    It can even resist/ohko Metagross CB and be faster (228 speed) than Chansey in order to pp waste with Encore.

     

    I think we should ban stuff only if they are banworthy, not if they could be banworthy XD There would be no Zangoose in NU otherwise ^^

     

    I mean, you've seen the calcs right?

    Diglett is just the same as dugtrio in most cases.

    There's no question dugtrio is unhealthy for this meta as explained by several people before me.

    It encourages stall, makes several wallbreakers risky to use and there's nothing you can do to avoid revenge killing.

    I get what you mean, banning diglett so soon without any kind of testing could be seen as unprofessional, but again the calcs don't lie.

    [OU Discussion] Arena Trap/Dugtrio (Dugtrio Banned to Ubers)

    in Competition Archive

    Posted

    You haven't exactly answered my questions tho. Are you 100% sure that Diglett will jusr replace blindly Dugtrio? Or is it just theoretical? You can bring calcs, but that's not a prove that people will for sure run it as much as Dugtrio, and that the meta will turn around it.
    That said, and appurated that right now, the problem IS Dugtrio, i think it's a bad decision removing viability to actual not proven broken, even in lower tiers, pokemon just cause of one, and with no real "field" prove.

    Also, can someone direct me to the old Diglett or Dugtrio discussions? I remember bringing up AT Ban, but that was shutted down by ThinkNice i belive with a wall of text, i would like to re-read it again

     

    https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/50710-ou-discussion-dugtrio/

     

    Also don't oppose me, don't do that

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