[Implemented]Economy and Money Sinks

[Giygas]

Nerfing Amulet Coin and/or Payday may slow down the rate at which people make tons o' cash, but people can still trainer grind. There will always be ways to make money.

Decreasing the rate at which people make money just makes it immensely more tedious for a person to be come stinkin' rich. But they still can, without the money cap we're used to. There should still be some way to drop all your money out of the market and into an NPC somewhere.

Maybe something as simple as a really expensive random egg thing? You go drop a mil (hee hee get it that's my name), then you get some egg back, with good odds of being a competitive Pokemon or at least one with good IVs/nature. Maybe you could specify what species you wanted it to be if you had met that Pokemon before? It could be in another room of the Game Corner or something.

Or:

I think Giygas mentioned this once already in this thread, Secret Base stuff! Maybe the TM costs a bamillion dollars and so does all the furniture. But I'll put some more thought into this once I have more time, gotta stupid study... >:3

1) I don't think they should nerf a legitimate game mechanic that requires startup time and effort and tedious grinding because some players call it "easy money". If anything, they should just worry about themselves.

2) I could already breed a good natured pokemon with near perfect IVs. So that doesn't give me a reason to buy one for MILIEUns of pokedollars when I could breed one in an hour.

3) Devs have already confirmed the houses / secret bases. At this point it's just a question of giving players obscenely expensive options.

4) Some people would spend millions on hats.

[Tokxilchaosz]

Nerfing Amulet Coin and/or Payday may slow down the rate at which people make tons o' cash, but people can still trainer grind. There will always be ways to make money.

Decreasing the rate at which people make money just makes it immensely more tedious for a person to be come stinkin' rich. But they still can, without the money cap we're used to. There should still be some way to drop all your money out of the market and into an NPC somewhere.

I agree, and I tried adding secret bases to my list of ideas after it got locked (I guess I shouldn't have posted it in the first place. oh well) But it could look something like this:

Basic - (10) Pretty similar to the secret bases of gen3, where there is a random starting shape and it might have some dirt and inaccessible areas. (Doesn't cost anything to upkeep as this is rough hideout)

» Tier 1 - (15) Same as Basic, but you get + 10 tiles in any direction/shape you want, and all of the dirt is replaced with a floor

» Tier 2 - (25)Same as T1, but +25 tiles instead

» Tier 3 - (45)Same as T2, but +50 tiles instead and you can add different tiles to your base (grass, water, walls, etc)

» Tier 4 - (50)Outpost Tier - At this level you can start getting NPCs to populate your base such as a Nurse or Merchant. From here on up these will not be custom bases but ones from a template.

» Tier 5 - (unlimited) Castle Tier - If you manage to reach this tier you are one of the richest people in the game, and there shall be sweet, sweet rewards in store for you. Again, this will be from a template, I don't see how they could develop an in-game tool to make in-game maps.

• Other people can visit this base if you want them to. Perhaps have it be friends list only?
  
• More NPCs! This base will be able to have different rooms, basically making it a small city, complete with [makeshift] PokeCenter and PokeMart.
  
• This level of base can be sugmented with other NPCs, perhaps ones that give side quests? Maybe these side quests are for super rare pieces of furniture/decorations?
  

The numbers in parenthesis () are the pieces of furniture that you can have in your base at a time.

There will be a flat cost for upgrading to the next Tier of bases and probably a maintenance fee that you can pay multiple times to extend how long your base lasts. Ie. it costs $1,000 per day to upkeep a T2 base, you have the option of paying $7,000 at once so that your base will be maintained for a week.

Furniture will for the most part be a nominal fee, but will not be refunded if you decide to take down your base.

Optionally if your base falls into disrepair there will be another fee to clean it up and then you can pick up where you left off. (maybe this could be 3 days' worth of the upkeep fee)

If the adding custom tiles won't work then the next best thing would be to have a few different template bases to choose from. vOv

Maybe something as simple as a really expensive random egg thing? You go drop a mil (hee hee get it that's my name), then you get some egg back, with good odds of being a competitive Pokemon or at least one with good IVs/nature. Maybe you could specify what species you wanted it to be if you had met that Pokemon before? It could be in another room of the Game Corner or something.

I agree, I added a lottery to my ideas under the Game Corner. Perhaps there could be a weekly/monthly lottery with prizes made up by the devs and you can buy as many tickets as you want, with the tickets being like $10,000. That way even the poor players would feel as if they had a chance, but richer players could dump millions into it and still not win.

@Giygas: I want to nerf the Amulet Coin and PayDay so much because by the time these ideas are even brought to the attention of the devs, you and others who use this method could easily have >$10m or >$20m. And then if they even take half of my nerfs into the game you can still earn quite a bit of money per hour.

And if you run through the entire storyline right now you get about $200,000 or more, and if you get a Meowth early on and get the amulet coin ASAP you could make tons more. I don't think that a new player going to challenge the Elite 4 will be that strapped for cash imo.

[Giygas]

@Giygas: I want to nerf the Amulet Coin and PayDay so much because by the time these ideas are even brought to the attention of the devs, you and others who use this method could easily have >$10m or >$20m.

You've yet to explain WHY you want the amulet coin nerfed. It makes zero sense to me why you want this change. I would really like you to elaborate on exactly why you think it has a negative impact on players or the game itself.

[Thoth]

Inflation. The more money. The more stuff costs. So if we remove the amount of inflow. Yes there will still be grinders but there will LITERALLY be less money. Fewer zeroes. This will allow the money sinks to still exist but not be so astronomical that players who don't grind money that way don't have to not partake. :)

[Anzhelika]

This will allow the money sinks to still exist

This is a strange sentence. You NEED money sinks. Money sinks being the things that take money out of the game permanently, like NPCs that provide products or services for money.

If anything we need a ton more of them.

Changing a nickname, $10k.

Learning an attack from a tutor, $5-20k.

Forgetting an HM move, $50k.

Renting a Guild house for a week, $100k.

An economy without severe inflation, priceless.

There are some things money can't buy. For everything else, there's lots and lots of mandatory grinding.

[Giygas]

Inflation. The more money. The more stuff costs. So if we remove the amount of inflow. Yes there will still be grinders but there will LITERALLY be less money. Fewer zeroes. This will allow the money sinks to still exist but not be so astronomical that players who don't grind money that way don't have to not partake. :)

Prices scale with the availability of funds.

Oh, this pokemon / service costs less because it is harder to get large amounts of money? Well, it still takes the same amount of time to earn the money for the service.

If a service cost 1,000,000 and it was possible to make 200,000 an hour, 5 hours of play to earn it.

If a service cost 500,000 and it was possible to make 100,000 an hour, 5 hours of play to earn it.

And the prices WOULD scale. It's all about how players value their time. Fact is, some will grind and some won't.

And trying to create economic equality in an MMO? That's just silly. "players who don't grind money that way don't have to not partake" They do if they want to keep up.

(And thanks for making a sentence use a triple negative. It's not uneasy to not read that way.)

[Sairek]

There's lots of ways to make money sinks. But there's also indirect ways to make 'money sinks' as well.

Right now, the only thing occupying money grinding is I think in fact the Safari Zone. What I mean by this is that there isn't enough things for us to do.

When you are in the Safari Zone, you're not making money.

When you are fully concentrated on breeding to get as many steps as quickly as possible, you're not making money.

When you in some place like the Battle Castle, you are not making money.

Basically, we need more things that allow us to make "progress" or to at least spread the occupancy of our playing time. Unfortunately at the moment, making money endlessly is the only real means of progress for a lot of players right now. Once I have my team be at level 100, I won't have anything left to do but money grind, unless I want to grind for something else specific like lucky eggs or whatever simply for trading revenue.

On the good news, as more features are released, the less people will be grinding money. Like said, breeding. I'll be spending almost if not all of my time breeding Pokemon as quick as I can especially when it does come out, rather than spending hours simply paydaying with EXP share.

[Giygas]

I'll be spending almost if not all of my time breeding Pokemon as quick as I can especially when it does come out, rather than spending hours simply paydaying with EXP share.

This exact sentiment. I've really just been payday spamming because my team is already trained, there is no elite 4, and I'm waiting for breeding. I already caught every nature of ditto, I caught my dozen or so chansey.

Time sink > Money sink

[Sairek]

This exact sentiment. I've really just been payday spamming because my team is already trained, there is no elite 4, and I'm waiting for breeding. I already caught every nature of ditto, I caught my dozen or so chansey.

Time sink > Money sink

Yeah. Heck, I even Payday when EV training using EXP share to get the EVs instead of Macho Bracing them, because I'm trying to hold out the EV grinding for literally as long as I can without hindering my progress, because after it's done I know I will have nothing else left to do.

Which is kind of sad now that I think about it.

[Tokxilchaosz]

Yeah. Heck, I even Payday when EV training using EXP share to get the EVs instead of Macho Bracing them, because I'm trying to hold out the EV grinding for literally as long as I can without hindering my progress, because after it's done I know I will have nothing else left to do.

Which is kind of sad now that I think about it.

Alpha. Alpha.

[Sairek]

Alpha. Alpha.

I know that.

I am describing the current situation, why I believe it is happening and my feelings as to the thoughts of the problem. Doing so helps the devs create solutions to those said problems.

In Layman's terms, I am describing why I am constantly Paydaying.

[Giygas]

Yeah. Heck, I even Payday when EV training using EXP share to get the EVs instead of Macho Bracing them, because I'm trying to hold out the EV grinding for literally as long as I can without hindering my progress, because after it's done I know I will have nothing else left to do.

Which is kind of sad now that I think about it.

Yeah I do exactly the same thing :P I guess both of us are just way too bored or something.

((For now I've just been hunting lucky eggs. It's the only other thing to do to pass time now that everything else is done.))

[Aidden]

I do not agree with your rankings and being able to buy OP-sounding advantages in-game, and instead I have some other ideas.

- Things from a PokeMart scale with how far along you are in the storyline (or are tied to badges). After you have every single storyline related event completed everything costs 10x+ what they currently do.

- TMs are removed from the Celadon Dept. Store (Game Corner is addressed in the next line)

- Increase Game Corner costs for prizes by 10x, possibly increase the amount of money you need to buy coins as well.

- Add some super sweet items to the Game Corner that cannot be found anywhere else in the game.

- Have a lottery, where players can buy as many tickets as they want to have a chance at winning a prize such as a shiny or otherwise rare Pokemon

- TMs can be found from catching or Thieving from certain Pokemon that have a chance of holding them (Such as Darkshade's List), as this would give people a way to make money

- Restrict the things you can sell to a PokeMart/make them sell for ridiculously low prices, such that richer players will want to buy them from others who will farm them.

------ I realize this is not a sink, but it has the potential to move money out of the hands of the super-rich Persian abusers

- NERF PAYDAY to stop the insane amount of wealth collection that is occurring now that people are abusing lvl 100 Persians with the Amulet Coin working. 1.5x - 2x the Pokemon's level for starters.

- Add a registration fee for official tournaments and/or Battle Frontier/Battle Tower once they are implemented.

- Add a registration fee to challenging the Elite 4/nerf their payout.

- Add a fee for using the transportation between the Islands and the mainland (No fee from island to island)

- Make us lose half of all of our money when we lose to an NPC.

And that's everything I can think of for now, mostly aimed at this region. I guess we could expand it to other regions if we wanted, but that seems pointless for now.

This started off talking about a thing to spend money on, then completely digressed from that.

What is your suggestion for a thing to spend money on? I can think of some:

When a secret base type system is implemented, certain furniture / cosmetic pieces could be sold for large amounts of money.

When different outfits for trainers are released, certain cosmetic items could be sold for large amounts of money.

Spending obscene amounts of money buying porygon from the game corner ((Only about $200,000 at the regular $ to casino coin exchange rate.))

The idea Sairek had of an overpriced TM shop.

((Also, the character classes you mentioned remind me of an old thread I made. http://forums.pokemm...racter-classes/ ))

Oh, sorry I wasn't clear!

I mean like. You would be able to BUY your role's perks after obtaining a certain rank. And they would cost HUGE sums of money. And be temporary, though you could purchase multiple.

Tokxilchaosz, I don't know how I feel about a lot of that though. PREFACE: The following is criticism I believe to be valid but may totally not apply to the populations I think it does. tl;dr I could be wrong and this isn't any sort of personal.

It'll feel bad and nonsensical during play to have the prices of items inflate dramatically alongside your wallet. Why would an Ultra Ball ever cost more than $1200 (believe that's the price)? I really like lore-consistent games, but I understand that games sometimes need to be games first. But this doesn't feel good to the player OR make any lore sense. Reputable shops don't see their customer's gold embroidered wallet and change their mind on the price they're charging, and people don't like the feeling of literally watching their money become less valuable.

This is totally legit so long as the "anywhere else" clause applies to the original game. I personally don't like taking away items you used to be able to find as a solution to this problem. But you didn't say that, so I just mean it as kind of a cautionary statement instead of a counter. Also, using Thief on Pokemon in the wild would give the move a use, which is nice. >.< But money is already totally farmable. Why nerf Amulet Coin+Pay Day but make TMs money generation as well?

This is pre-sorted for me in order of my preference. I think tournament entry fees are a good idea, because it means that people will have to play the game in their down time instead of playing once, waiting until the next tournament, and repeating this cycle. They'll have to be *gasp* members of a community! Or at least save up tons of cash.

Elite 4 fees might be kinda lame. People do this for more than just money -- there just isn't a faster way to level up Pokemon. To charge people so that they can have the CHANCE at working to level up their Pokemon is kinda not okay. But nerfing their payout might make sense.

One-time transportation fees might be neat if the devs want the Sevii Islands to feel really elite or something, but otherwise it will feel awful. Some important Pokemon from generations after 1 can only be caught here before leaving for Johto (Burn Orb Heracross, Skarmory -- you get 'em guys). Making people pay to get back and forth will feel kinda bad. And plus, can't you fly to and from the Sevii Islands once you've gone once?

Whoa, why would that be okay? That will almost exclusively hinder Battle Tower players and new players.

Like I said though, sorry if that sounded mean or anything, totally isn't meant to be. That's just how I feel and isn't necessarily objectively correct, haha.

The Game Corner should definitely be exploited in the future. In an MMO environment, a casino would definitely be considered a main player hub but there isn't really a reason to go there after getting Porygon, so I would suggest a couple things:

1. Have a constantly (read: every update or two) changing inventory of Pokemon and items from different regions. This way there is more incentive to go back

2. Definitely increase the cost to purchase coins.

3. Possibly add another vendor that sells Macho Braces, Exp. Shares, etc. for exorbitantly high prices

4. Have tournament registration be in the Game Corner

5. Based on a suggestion I saw in another thread, have a lottery in the Game Corner. A prize could be given every month (a rare Pokemon, a shiny Pokemon, a Master Ball, etc.) and tickets could be purchased until the second-to-last day with a winner being drawn on the last. The tickets could cost anywhere from $10,000-$50,000 depending on the state of the economy

As for TM's, I like the "find them on wild Pokemon" idea that was being pushed in another thread, but offering common TM's like Earthquake at the Game Corner for relatively large sums of money would also be good.

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There could also be a fee to travel from region to region, so seeing Pokemon from different generations would become a more exotic occurrence.

Nothing to say really, i agree with all of the above quoted comments. SUPPORT!

[Tokxilchaosz]

You've yet to explain WHY you want the amulet coin nerfed. It makes zero sense to me why you want this change. I would really like you to elaborate on exactly why you think it has a negative impact on players or the game itself.

I missed this post until now, sorry about that!

Not only this but I theorized that if we restricted/limited TMs being sold to NPCs, it would encourage (read: FORCE) players to sell to other players through the forums and in game trading. This would actually be a counter money fountain as this would promote inter-player transactions rather than generating a limitless supply of money from NPCs.

In essence, I want to see players trade with each other to exchange money and items, and in the end have different avenues for generating items and Pokemon than just grinding money from NPCs, then buying them from shops.

I see this happening in three major ways:

1. Breeding - When Breeding is implemented (unless the model of Breeding is changed drastically) players will be able to generate new Pokemon for a fee that is fairly small. They can then sell or barter these good natured/IV'ed Pokemon for the other things they need.

2. TM Hunters - These are the guys that will be out thieving TMs from wild Pokemon when/if Darkshade's idea gets into the game. Otherwise they will Thief for high valued things that they can sell to NPCs (Nugget, Stardust, etc.) or to Players (Magnets, Twistedspoons).

3. Gamblers - There will be those players that can consistently win at the slot machines in the Game Corner once it is implemented, and will be able to trade off the prizes they get there for a profit.

I ran out of time and I will post more ideas in a bit, but feel free to respond to these!

[toxicstrike91]

there should be more to buy yes, but not an increase of price in needed supplies.

 

add more stuff to the cleadon dept store add more tms

add more training stuff (pp max)

add more stuff to buy but keep the prices.

add passes that go to other areas in game like the rainbow pass to the dept store for like 1mil or something

just dont highten the prices of things like pokeballs, potions ect.

[Zehkar]

Many money sinks and economy changes have since been implemented/changed, including buying braces and the ability pill from the daycare lady, being able to change your pokemon's nickname for a fee, the payday nerf, the Elite 4 cooldown, etc.