NOREButler

sadface

Ideally choice specs. Otherwise spell tag, because it also boost shadow ball, though only by 20%. Pre evolutions; in this case gastly and haunter.

You can find gibles in wayward cave when you enter through the hidden entrance, which google should reveal. Gengar should be good to nuke if you give it a damage boosting item. Idk if you can find the prevos in sinnoh though. If you cant you could just buy a gastly/haunter/gengar with a positive SpA nature + ivs above 22 and ask someone to evo trade you. Gengars a nice mon to have for story in general.

No clue what they would look like without Roserade around, maybe itd get better, because the mons that sponge Stout would still get cucked by Venu, but Venu doesnt have the same offensive presence Rose has and it cant even set up spikes. I agree on defensive playstyles being rather optimistic in NU rn, but thats mainly due to bad tiering. I dont feel like neither the tc nor the people actually playing NU care about a healthy NU metagame, so im not gonna put the whole blame on you guys this time around. Durant getting banned was overdue and when it finally happened, Roserade and Gigalith got NU´d. We never had time to see what happens without Ant in NU, because the next offensive behemoth was dropped. You´re not to blame for Rose not being UU by usage anymore, but for the sake of testing stuff, though Rose was obviously busted and i still have a hard time imagining you didnt just wanna see the world burn, we lost another month of NU getting where it could be. Ant getting banned from NU meant that defensive grass mons could see usage again, because they wouldnt end up being set up bait, pressure was taken off of defensive psychic types, like mush and slowking and to me that seemed really cool, because quite some room for change in the tier and then Rose dropped and all of that was nullified. Yes, NU is in a somewaht shitty state, but Rose following Ant would and i really hope will be a gigantic first step to create a fun and healthy NU environment.

I feel the need to talk about sand and rose in NU. While rose was pretty obvious beforehand i think, stout and giga really surprised me. Reasonably bulky and not that easy to revenge kill if you dont run Hitmonchan, especially if you consider that barely any choice scarf user being able to outspeed this under sand thanks to sand rush. You can find mons that outspeed it being scarfed, but Espeon seems to be the only one that regularly sees/saw usage in that regard. So yeah, Stouland outspeeds pretty much our whole offensive NU metagame under sand. It sure has defensive checks that are very viable, but those have to make sure they maintain their hp, because otherwise super power can hurt those as well. Theres mons that can handle Stout, which arent named Steelix, Golurk, Rhydon, but those get their leftovers denied by sand. I dont think Stoutland is the real issue though, but the fact that we cant contest sand with anything but Vanilluxe. Without sand Stouts a rather useless Poke, but when sand is set it stays up most of the times, which leads us to: The real culprit. Setting uncontested weather and being fairly bulky under sand, while hitting decently hard and setting up rocks. There really isnt much else to say about Gigalith - Sand Stream. Now there is ways to handle both of these i think, but you always see those two in tandem with: As if having uncontested weather wasnt enough theres a perfect partner avilable right now, Roserade. Looking at its stats it seems well rounded, tho its defense in conjunction with its hp are rather lackluster. What it lacks in defense it makes up for in special defense however and that insane SpA stat, while sitting at 90 base speed. Rose is a threat; imo THE threat right now. Theres plenty of sets it can run; theres hazard laying defensive Roses with access to Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, T-Spikes and regular Spikes. Nothing too crazy and rather easy to manage unless sleep rolls screw you over i guess. And then theres offensive Roserade... Looking at NU that 90 base speed is nothing too crazy, but that base SpA is quite something. Not only does it have the stats to threaten opposing mons, but it also has the pool to do so; HP Fire, Extracensory, Leaf Storm/Giga Drain, Sludgebomb with two being Stab. Now while Life Orb is viable and i thought it would be the go to Rose item it limits Roses survivability and makes it more prone to being pursuit trapped. The real fun begins when you face Roserade holding a Choice Specs or a Choice Scarf. Having to switch into Roserade is a difficult thing to do and while it has defensive checks, those are severely hindered by Stealth Rock support and if they dont just drop to two attacks they lose a hefty amount of hp and either spam recovery or are preserved as sacks for another Rose assault, unless they are called bronzor and do...well nothing. We sadly dont have offensive checks that are able to switch into Roserade safely due to its coverage, so revenge killing it seems like the best approach of handling a Roserade. While its base speed is nothing special it still allows Rose to act as a hard hitting Choice Scarfer that outspeeds the whole unboosted/unscarfed metagame. Sneasel and Houndoom are both pressuring Roserade (252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roserade: 118-139 (87.4 - 102.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO), but can fall short if mispredicting and even Kanga cant reliably finish off a Roserade with a combination of Fake Out and Sucker Punch, tho thats everything but reliable to begin with even if the calcs were better. On top of that Roserade resists Aqua Jet and Mach punch. __ Why am i typing this? Playing NU rn is frustrating, because Roserade is already busted enough and i think it was obvious af that Rose would end up being too much to handle, but since Gigalith dropped as well we also gotta consider sand teams when building - sand is a thing now, Rose is a thing now; oftentimes you cant have sand without Rose even, tho if Rose got the boot Venu would probably just replace it. As mentioned above, theres no way to compete with Sand Stream, since we only have Vanilluxe, which dropped in viability, because of Gigalith thus sand is pretty centralizing right now. Complex banning Sand Stream on Gigalith or putting Gigalith to BL would solve this. We would have Hippopotas left, but its way easier to take advantage off than a bulky mon like Gigalith that shuts down plenty of switch ins by having a reasonable offensive presence. I dont really know where to put Roserade. Reading the tiering etiquette it doesnt fit offensive uber characteristics since it cant set up and just sweep, but it literally has no switch ins that arent complete garbage and lose momentum; and it has the speed to serve as a hard hitting Choice Scarfer. Sounds like this could be applied.

2:3 2:3 3:2 vs sweet. GGs, tho damn hax festivals.

Hi fellow NU nerds, since im unbanned im gonna make a new one. Same as before i guess; the tier is NU; BO1 up to 200k, BO3 up to 500k, BO5 up to 1m. If you want to wager id appreciate if we handed the money to a middleman if its more than 500k. "Butler" ingame, hit me up!

close pls, gonna make a naew one i can control

Glad to see you still enjoy embarassing yourself.

really cool idea, but would have been so much nicer on a weekend.

Wanna sell this qt and lf offers: https://gyazo.com/0171d199b255fb9221f70c08b20514a9 nature is naive. cheers

just pull a roxx and come back week 7. you´re welcome.

peer pressure too strong.

thats not true. the other day he won 2 bets!

bump

JANUARY - Movement discussion thread / JANUARY tier changes @Munya Why did i fail twice registrating for the Sawk NU when those changes are literally supposed to be applied in january? 75/64 now. thanks a lot

Ahhh, good call. Gonna do that, thanks

You name mons that dont even check rose with rocks up and me saying "they dont check rose" is an opinion?

Thats one way to handle being out of arguments. The fact it cant be flinched doesnt even matter, unless you wanna run max speed to tie rose or max max calm, which is interesting, considering bats meant to check certain 80 base threats. 252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Golbat: 68-81 (37.3 - 44.5%) -- 96.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock Calms nuked as well, what are you pointing at? Because its a huge momentum sink and cryos not hard to abuse? So basically, this thread is useless, cause nothings gonna happen anyways before tested?

yeah, calcing without hazards makes it seem healthier. thanks, im not worried anymore.

How are Cryo and Golbat checks? Cryos forced to recover, bat gets nuked unless you wanna sacrifice bulk for it to be max speed to get speed ties. I see bronzor, but its just another sitting duck justifying roserade. I mean what is the risk of playing around a bronzor even; seeing rocks on your side of the field? What does bronzor do to rose; it simply doesnt have the stats to justify anything but psywave and its recovery is rest. Im not saying bronzor isnt viable at all, but if its one of the best answer we have to rose, maybe rose shouldnt be NU. Out of all those "checks" you mentioned, metang is the only one that isnt weak to rocks and metang does nothing offensively either. Owl: 252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Noctowl: 74-87 (35.7 - 42%) -- 78.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock Vulla: 252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 62-74 (35 - 41.8%) -- 62.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock Scyther: 252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Scyther: 78-94 (44 - 53.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock Clef: 252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 75-90 (37.1 - 44.5%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Metang, bronzor and clef are the only ones i can think of rn. If rose really goes to NU defensive playstyles become even less viable. I dont see why anybody would run rose for anything else but offensive purposes, so how are the mentioned and standard specially defensive mons answers to that threat? This "lets just see what happens this month" - mentality is such bs with the kind of tc we got and you know that. _ Funny to see how people are concerned about stoutland with rose calcs being posted tho. 252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Muk: 86-101 (40.5 - 47.6%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Flareon: 66-79 (38.3 - 45.9%) -- 87.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Swalot: 96-114 (46.3 - 55%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Weezing: 104-125 (60.4 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock 252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Kangaskhan: 82-97 (38.6 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Kangaskhan: 117-138 (55.1 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery Zard, Espeon, Swellow, Doom "only" revenge kill a roserade. they usually come in when you lost a mon.

252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 75-90 (37.1 - 44.5%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 109-129 (53.9 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 116 SpD Cryogonal: 70-83 (37.4 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 116 SpD Cryogonal: 99-118 (52.9 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery with speed to outspeed rose and recover it off. this is a sureshot momentum sink tho and you dont even recover the dmg off with rocks in play, so if this loops cryo drops fast. 252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Cryogonal: 58-70 (31.1 - 37.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Cryogonal: 83-99 (44.6 - 53.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery calm rolls with rocks up, cryos not a check. 252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Druddigon: 75-90 (40.7 - 48.9%) -- 12.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 160+ SpD Braviary: 94-110 (45.4 - 53.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery gets outsped by rose. 252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Roselia: 65-78 (41.4 - 49.6%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock 252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Extrasensory vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Golbat: 99-117 (54.6 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock running max speed bat to tie for bravebirds? 252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Throh: 94-112 (41.4 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Throh: 113-134 (49.7 - 59%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Venusaur: 86-101 (45.9 - 54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock E: 252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Altaria: 68-82 (37.3 - 45%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock 90 Speed can be revenge killed, but switching into this is fun. +1 on Roserade; the other two might be ok. @gbwead thoughts on rose?

we never wagered tho. always paid my wager losses, but im down to hand over 5m to someone if you also do.

alright, put 5m on the line. bo3. you lead 1:0.