ThinkNicer

Lazy bums. I changed it for you.

Lesgo we just need 7 more votes for #SlowDraft2020

I'll be adding the manager choice ones together. To clarify I'll add together: 2x OU, UU, NU, LC, Doubles, 2x Manager’s Choice with 2x OU, UU, NU, LC, Doubles, 2x Manager’s Choice (no Doubles) And OU, UU, NU, LC, Doubles, Showdown, 2x Manager’s Choice (no Showdown) with OU, UU, NU, LC, Doubles, Showdown, 2x Manager’s Choice (no doubles or Showdown)

As far as I'm concerned it is, I as long as it is in the bounds of the rules. I guess you can be harsher on discord :p Because the idea is to have a discussion channel on discord, while also being able to post in the general thread about the ongoing auction. Yes, PM me if you want to change it and I can remove your old vote so you can add the new one.

First of all, I'd like to say that I'm completely unbiased when it comes to this. I just want to educate the public. A slow auction maybe has a negative ring to it. But it is a truly amazing way to kick off PSL, it will instantly create rivalries and stories. A slow auction is also way more engaging for all the players. How many players are able to show up for the quick draft, half maybe? 60%? While I can guarantee you that every single player in the PSL can keep up with the slower auction format and be able to talk alongside everyone, discussing the current bids, speculating future bids, trashtalking manager decisions etc. Further more a slow auction is easier to set up and allows managers to discuss with themselves and even players they bought early on in the auction. Also something I thought was hilarious and amazing at the same time, is that players that didn't get bid on started to advertise their achievements in the discussion pages. All in all, in PSL 3 I chose to go for a quick auction, because I wanted to give it a try. But if I would've hosted PSL 4 after, I would've gone back to the slower variant, no questions asked. So change your vote today!

Yeah fuck showdown. This is the real issue we have to address

I'd like to chime in here to say that you'll have bad matches in any tier, at any point. This is not exclusive to showdown. Managers are supposed to counteract this somewhat. Because a managers role is not only to pick a team in the draft and then send a few line ups through the season. A manager should foster as much competitiveness in their team as possible. Having players that are better, teach the ones that are not. Making sure that everyone helps out with teambuilding and strategy discussions. If the team has no strong showdown/doubles/whatever player, the manager should guide the team into resources and ways to practise together. PSL is a massive collaborative team event. So I've never understood the argument that 'everyone is trash in this tier so don't put it in PSL'. Any good manager, or good team, will make sure that their players get stronger throughout the season. So that at the end of the season you have many more excellent players that can carry the torch to the next set of new players.

Hey! I'll have you now that I had to rewrite a bunch of things to make it fit MMO at the time! But yes, SPL is PSLs daddy. But do you know what PSL had that, SPL didn't? No?

Oh we're at the top of the page again. Sorry for the double post but this is for visibility. If you've already voted but you would like to change your vote, PM me and I'll remove your old vote so you can revise it. If you've voted on the first day, please note that your vote might have been deleted and please take the survey again. Reason in spoiler:

Yes, I've been thinking about it and I think we'll need a second poll in a week or so to refine the results. Layout C might have the largest slice of the cake, but the two layouts with showdown combined are around 55%. I think the number 16 comes from 8 managers needing at least 2 competent players for every tier (OU, UU, NU, LC, Doubles) x2 makes 10 players per team. But like you said this isn't very realistic. There will always be teams that are stronger in certain tiers than others. That's the nature of the draft and part of the strategic decision making managers will have to make. (Cough which is best accomplished with a slow auction. COUGH) So you're right, we should take a closer look at these manager choice restrictions and question if we need any restriction at all. Although Showdown would probably always be restricted. I'm curious about your ideas for more agency in the manager choice categories. Could you elaborate on what you mean and do you have suggestions? On the topic of playoffs. They will go like this: Teams placed 1st and 2nd will automatically qualify for the playoffs. While teams placed 7th and 8th are automatically out. 3rd to 6th place will fight for the remaining 2 spots. 3rd will face 6th (with a 1-0 advantage) 4th will face 5th with no advantage. In the playoffs the teams that are placed higher will receive a manager's choice, bringing the amount of matches to 9.

It's an interesting proposition, I'm not too familiar with VGC20 so I don't know if it's really that bad. Choosing an earlier season might also level the playing field a little. Remember to vote in the survey.

Smh, y'all need to be enlightened on why slow auction is the vastly superior auction #SlowAuction2020 Edit: I'll just throw this reminder on every page, because it'll probably be missed. If you've voted on the poll the first day, please vote again. Reason below

What are you talking about Forfi, we're gonna have dungeons any time now. ... you'll see.. Aaaaaany time now

Up to the community indeed, but that doesn't mean that you can't campaign for the choices you think are best (as you've done, just letting others know). That's a big purpose of this thread. Also if people are confused about some concepts in the OP don't be afraid to ask.

I'm really sorry guys, but I messed up the polling. I didn't realize how easy it was to spam answers using Forms. We added a question to verify your forum username, sadly that means all the votes till now have to be declared void. Because I can't say for certain that people haven't voted twice or more. We have the data of the previous poll to compare. Again, really sorry I totally messed up. Please take the poll again here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSet1FFDoIdU143f4b6qKHbBS7JgP07cltAOvVzaC1QJ00hUSA/viewform The link on the OP works as well. Thank you.

Pachi and I decided on that restriction because we felt like, unlike the other tiers, there aren"t enough dedicated Doubles players for managers to draft. Meaning that managers can get an unfair advantage if they happen to have more experienced Doubles players on their team. It's the same case with Showdown. There aren't enough strong Showdown players for managers to reliably draft, so we don't want to give managers the option to potentially have 2 showdown tiers in a week. Who knows, there might be better players now. The decision lies with the community, not with us as hosts. Personally I'd prefer DPP OU Bo3 and a slow auction or the new quick auction style (so we don't have to deal with stupid 10s timers) but so far the community has gone for VGC (34%) and standard auction (54%).

This post is only to gather input from the community. After that we have to work on writing out rulings and everything else that goes into the general thread. Then we have to gather donations and then you'll have manager and player sign ups. All in all, it'll probably take 2 months before we even have the first league stage.

I thought the Showdown calculator accounted for that, but it in fact didn't. So yeah, carry on!

Manager's wont be allowed to play. But there might be a certain week that managers can show off their battling skills :p

First

I just want to weigh in on a single point. Icicle Spear Scarf Mamo doesn't check Garchomp any better than Icicle Crash Mamowsine. As you need more than the average hits to OHKO Garchomp after rocks. So I wouldn't call it a reliable check. 252 Atk Mamoswine Icicle Spear (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yache Berry Garchomp: 258-312 (72.2 - 87.3%) -- approx. 2HKO 252 Atk Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yache Berry Garchomp: 152-182 (83 - 99.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Nik the difference between Infernape and Garchomp SD set is, is that you have to give it 3 different types of berries (for ground, water or psychic) and 4+ coverage moves for what Chomp can do better with 1 berry type and 3 moves. No variance. It just does its job, no matter the matchup. Every. Time.

Ah stoinks, you really dismantled my whole argument there. Really went straight for the kill, like a leopard pouncing on a helpless injured baby giraffe. I have been slaughtered. My disappointment, in myself, is immeasurable and my day is ruined.

I've been lurking for a while but this whole Garchomp discussion has been rustling my jimmies, I can't take no more! The main argument I'm seeing against Garchomp is that it doesn't completely fit the standards of an offensive Uber. I'd argue that this is the wrong way of looking at it. It's true that Garchomp doesn't fit in the Offensive uber characteristics. But, like many non-legendary Ubers, Garchomp seems to somewhat fit multiple Uber criteria. Garchomp, when used correctly, is an unprecedented offensive threat, it makes the tier less competitive and is heavily centralizing. Characteristics of an offensive Uber There is one Garchomp set I want to focus one. Jolly with Yache Berry and SD, Dclaw, EQ and Fire Fang. This set is so ridiculous because it can 2HKO every Pokémon (except two highly specific mons) with just a Swords Dance. 'But StinkNice' you say 'there are so many Pokemon that can 2HKO many Pokemon after a SD' You are correct, my overused narration device. The single thing that makes Garchomp different though, is it's troll base speed of 102. Meaning it can often dish out two hits, before being hit twice itself. On top of that it has one of the best dual typings in the game, gaining a 102 base speed STAB EQ. This set is so completely offensively broken that there are only two defensive Pokémon that can reliably deal with this set. Don't believe me? So if you manage to switch in Garchomp (not hard to do with a slow U-turn or Volt Switch), your opponent is almost guaranteed to lose a Pokémon unless they run Mandibuzz or Umbreon. I'll repeat. Garchomp will almost always force the opponent to lose a Pokémon unless they use Mons that are supposed to be in UU. When a Pokémon can so reliably delete Pokémon, with minimal support (Stealth Rocks) it certainly fits some of the offensive Uber criteria. But let's look at some offensive checks that can deal with Garchomp. An offensive check would of course need to switch in on a predicted move it can take, or a set up move like Swords Dance. I could go on but I'll save you the trouble. The only three Pokémon that can reliably check Garchomp when switching in on a Swords Dance or ineffective move are Choice Band Weavile, Scarf Hydreigon and Scarf Salamence (having to lock itself into Draco Meteor). 'But ThinkDumb, you stupid oaf. I can just revenge kill it after it has killed a Pokémon' How delightful, you can attempt to kill Garchomp after it has already fulfilled its purpose. Competitiveness and centralization A Pokémon that has so little reliable counters and checks and is so easy to throw on any team, is bound to be centralizing and uncompetitive. Uncompetitive in the sense that it doesn't take any skill to play this Pokémon. If your opponent does not have a Mandibuzz, you are highly likely to just outright delete an opposing Pokémon by clicking Swords Dance. It is simply ludicrous. Centralizing in the sense that you have freaking Mandibuzz in OU, and the fact that it makes balanced offense teams extremely bad in OU. Your only real competitive options in OU would be highly offensive or very defensive. That doesn't sound like a healthy competitive metagame to me. But I'll leave you with these final thoughts. Garchomp has been a menacing force in every generation is has been in. In DPP OU, it was banned. Not only because of Sand Veil, but because of all the points I made above. And consider this, DPP OU actually had more checks to Garchomp than we do in MMO, like Scarf Jirachi, Outrage Flygon, Latias, Suicune, and Crescelia. Even in BW OU, with every hidden ability and updated moves and legendaries in OU, Garchomp is still A+ ranked. Now try to justify this monster in MMO OU where we are missing many of these tools.