gbwead

Gallade is OU by usage. It didn't get banned.

@caioxlive13 , I am curious to know what you think of these very relevant questions about Gallade. Please give us your insight.

Previously, our system was this: Because the cutoff point for moving up is so high during the first and second month, we almost never see anything moving up during those months. Because the cutoff point for moving down is so low during the first and second month, we almost never see anything moving down during those months. Because the third month cutoff point for moving up is so low compared to the cutoff point of the first and second month, we see a lot of pokemon moving up. Because the third month cutoff point for moving don is so high compared to the cutoff point of the first and second month, we see a lot of pokemon moving down. Because nothing moves during the first and second month, we see a lot of movements during the third month. The third month has to catch up basically. Problem: When a season starts, the metagame changes significantly compared to the previous season. This doesn't work because TC has doesn't have any reference point anymore to determine what needs to be banned and what needs to be tested. Therefore, TC needs time to make up their mind, but by the time they do make up their mind, the season ends and everything changes again. This means TC can't do their job properly. By freezing the tiers for the first and second months, the amount of movements to expect for the third month will be even higher. This is exactly what we don't want. This is exactly what people have been complaining about. Bombs are the issues and those are caused because there are not enough movements during the first months of each season. Freezing the tier creates more bombs. TC is overloaded because they freeze tiers and they have to catch up when 20 pokemon move up and down all of a sudden.

I don't understand. I said there was a problem with the current usage system and that it needs to be reformed. The problem is that the usage system leads to volatily and yoyoing in movements. This means lower tiers are shaken every season to an unacceptable degree. The TC can't do their job because of that since any metagame analysis becomes irrelevant as soon as the new months start. The multiple solutions I suggested to solve this problem aim to reduce volatility and yoyoing by increasing the amount of usage movements during the 1st & 2nd months and reducing the amount of usage movements for the 3rd month. What you did is the exact opposite. You froze the tiers entirely. Nothing will move until we reach the third month. This will lead to crazy volatilty and yoyoing. Tiering can't work like that.

Can we get some context on this? Did someone in TC ask for this? Was it a discussion? A vote? This decision goes against a lot of what TC members have said publicly, so I don't understand how this was requested. I'm not looking for a name or anything like that, just perhaps some clarification on how it was requested.

Litteraly the worst thing that could possibly happen. Just a few weeks ago we just saw an enormous amount of usage movements. The entire community complained that usage movements were not handled properly. By preventing even more mons from moving, this will lead to even more riddiculous movements in the future. Tdlr: See you in 2 months for the next shitshow.

Gallade is OU by usage. It won't drop.

I'm personally extremely concerned about the following set: Pretty much any wall can just come on this Vaporeon and Toxic it. However, Offense doesn't have that really have good answers for a set like this. For instance, if Timid Sceptile Life Orb switches into a Calm Mind from Vaporeon, this is what to expect: 252 SpA Life Orb Sceptile Giga Drain vs. +1 244 HP / 4 SpD Vaporeon: 101-120 (42.7 - 50.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery The problem with this calc is that Sceptile needs a crit to win there, but the odds are pretty bad. For the sake of the argument, let's assume the Sceptile player is amazing at predicting and never wastes a single PP of Giga Drain into a Protect, this would mean that after 16 Giga Drain the Sceptile player would have had 49.39% chance to get at least one crit. On top of that, a crit would not even be a guaranteed KO: 252 SpA Life Orb Sceptile Giga Drain vs. 244 HP / 4 SpD Vaporeon on a critical hit: 226-268 (95.7 - 113.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO. So basically, Sceptile would have a 37.04% chance to kill Vaporeon if Sceptile manages to land 16 Giga Drain on Vaporeon. Realistically, Sceptile will not be able to land 16 Giga Drain on Vaporeon, some of the Giga Drain PP will be blocked by Protect. Here is a table of the chance for Sceptile to kill Vaporeon with Giga Drain depending on the number of times it was able to land a Giga Drain: # of Giga Drain Chance to KO 16 37.04% 15 35.39% 14 33.67% 13 31.87% 12 30.00% 11 28.04% 10 26.00% 9 23.87% 8 21.64% 7 19.32% 6 16.90% 5 14.38% 4 11.74% 3 8.99% 2 6.12% 1 3.13% 0 0.00% Ofc, Sceptile could play a Leech Seed set or a SD Lum Berry set, but those are not that common. The common sets of other offensive mons like Eelektross, Scrafty, Rotom-Fan and Ludicolo also lose to the Vaporeon I linked. Imo, Lilligant looks like currently the best answer for offense vs Vaporeon, but strangely its usage drop since last season. I don't have an explanation for that, but if someone has one please share. I'm trying to stay open minded and maybe with time offensive mons will adapt their sets to deal with Vaporeon, but so far Vaporeon has been a dominating force. Edit: Perhaps with time mons like Lapras and Jynx will gain more usage. Also, since the drop of Salamence in UU, Poliwrath dropped in usage significantly. I wouldn't be that surprised if it drops to NU next season.

I just saw for the second time a Bulk Up Scrafty win vs an Unaware Rocky Helmet Quagsire. I have concerns regarding Scrafty threat level in NU. Imo, we need a thread to look into it. Also, on another note, why is Venomoth still banned? It's been rotting in BL2 for months and I don't see why it's not getting tested.

It's not because Vaporeon gets a discussion thread that it will deserve a ban. We just want a place to discuss Vaporeon. Please make a thread for it.

Ya, gems in PokeMMO are x1.5 instead of x1.3. You have to calc in BW for gems dmg.

@Munya, I made the thread for you. Please post it.

I already said I'm against the quick ban. I don't know what you are talking about me wanting someone to say YES. I'm not opposed to Nido getting banned at the end of the month, just not a big fan of it getting quick banned. There is no 2/3 majority required for quick bans (you can check yourself in the policy) According to what was presented to us, there was a 3-1 vote. If someone refuses to vote, that's on them. They can't hold the entire TC hostage while they make up their mind. Allowing such behaviour would allow a single member to stall out any decision or procedure they wish to stop. It would become impossible for anything to ever get quick banned. Deadlines for voting is a good idea. I don't think that's how votes are handled right now, but I could be wrong.

Hold on @DoubleJ My 3-0 statement is just an example in reply to your 1-0 example. Both are equally silly. I'm not talking without merit. This was just an example, not me spreading misinformation ... Now, the 3-1 vote I stated earlier is nothing more than what was shared with the community on the PokeMMO Colosseum discord. I didn't make it up. You have to understand that from an outsider perspective what has been shown on this thread is a big push to make this thread look like a suspect test (like I explained, it isn't). This is not a good look when we are presented with a 3-1 vote to ban Nidoqueen. Anyhow, I'm glad there is finally a vote on Nidoqueen. In the future, I believe more transparency in these procedures would go a long way.

It's an example!! Just like your 1-0 example.

You gave an example. I replied by also giving an example. I don't see what merit has to do with any of this.

Vapo can go Sp. Def. Scald is a huge threat to Physical attackers, most of them can't afford the risk of getting burned.

If the vote is 3-0 for a quick ban and 1 member refuses to vote, that member would based on your logic prevent any ban from happening. That's even more silly.

We also need a Scrafty thread. My offer to make the thread still stands if TC members don't have the time.

Warned of what? It's a quick ban vote. If someone is not ready to vote, they vote "NO" to the quick ban. What's the issue? That's not preventing Nidoqueen from getting banned at the end of the month. Why are you warning against anything? A tc member asks for quick ban vote. TC members vote. You enforce that decision. It's extremely simple.

Never asked to vote, but waiting for one specific member to cast their vote. How can you be waiting for someone to cast their vote if a vote was not initiated? This makes no sense.

What's the vote count?

3-1 is a 2/3 majority This is not a suspect test. Please stop refering to the suspect test section. This is quick ban, so there is no 2/3 majority that would even apply anyways.

Go ahead. Show us where in the policy it says 4 votes are required for a ban to pass. You won't find that because that requirement would invalidate the entire policy. It's non sense.

That's not true and if it was like this for a long time, how come there is no mention of this absurd requirement in the tiering policy? I can tell you why... because no one would ever agree to such an absurd requirement. It's riddiculous. Stop messing around and just enforce the decision that was made. edit: Since you are staff, no one can see you edited your previous post where you added the mention "A vote requires a 2/3 majority by the tier council to pass"