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you know good players will remain good even if snorlax is banned right it's not very likely that there's a good player whose only decent team relies on snorlax and whose winrate would plummet the moment it gets banned

just introduce assault vest drapion to the tier it's the only surefire gengar counter i think

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uususpecttest-445601340 Beating +2 Lum Gyarados with Taunt with chip damage without taking a single hit.

Post one that'd work in Pokemmo. The only reason why BP got banned (And even then it just got a complex ban) in Smogon because Denissss made a hermetically perfect team that would handle even teams entirely designed around countering it. Keep in mind in gen 6 there's more tools to work with (Fairy type, Scolipede, Stored Power, Magic Bounce, Quiver Dance), back in gen 3 Baton Pass was never banned because it was never an issue. But enough of that this isn't about Baton Pass it's about confusion. Confusion (I'm specifically talking about Confuse Ray and Swagger) basically allows someone to randomly gain free turns by leaving the game in the hands of chance. Paralysis is infamous for doing the same thing, but the chances of gaining a free turn are 25% instead of 50%. Also an entire type is immune to it and each of the most common inducing methods have at least one extra type immune to it ( Thunder Wave-Ground, Body Slam-Ghost, Stun Spore (I've never seen anyone use this but whatever)-Grass) meaning it has plenty of switch ins depending on the method used. Sleep also earns a random amount of free turns, but it's regulated by sleep clause, and most sleep inducing moves have pretty awful accuracy (The only exception is Spore which is useless against grass types and used by three specific Pokemon at most). Meanwhile confusion earns completely random amount of free turns for a completely random amount of time, and has very few Pokemon immune to it such as Slowbro, Slowking, Ludicolo, Smeargle and Grumpig if I'm generous. One free turn can safely turn a game around by either making a hard hitter hit itself in confusion severely damaging itself either KOing or putting itself in KO range for a lot of things, or gaining a safe switch into something else or a safe set up. All of this is is caused by moves with either 100% or 90% accuracy and no specific types immune to them. Switching out is a solution, but also a free turn gained for the opponent, and depending on the situation the confused Pokemon may not be in the position to switch out, which basically forces it to pray that it won't hit itself in confusion. It is not the most reliable strategy to win but neither is Double Team spam yet this strategy got also banned for being too luck based (while also having some shoddy counterplay). Baton Pass may arguably be "cheap" and "skill-less", but it takes at least two turns to pull off and lets the opposing player react accordingly with their counter-strategy. Confusion is a one turn wonder that de-evolves any strategy into a chance based praying game and on top of that it's spammable as hell due to uncommon immunities.

Ban it. Garbage mechanic that allows even the shittiest of players to gain free turns or force switches at little to no cost. It's more uncompetitive than Baton Pass, doesn't reward planning or skill, all it does is turn games into coin tosses.

Why not? It'd make some people happy and it wouldn't take that long.

I agree with the first one, not so much with the second one. Mind if I suggest also allowing baton pass in Ubers since it's absolutely not broken in this game yet for some reason it's banned.

I disagree, Scizor is pretty much a shittier Metagross, however Houndoom has a niche no other fire type in the tier can do, it can punish for using Will-O-Wisp and Hp fire. First of all Psychics are back, they are the only type with a set up move that raises Spatk and with the new items they can make Chansey wince after a few boosts, The ideal counter would be a pursuit user who can also threaten them with a strong physical move, putting them in a lose/lose situation. Sound familiar? Well with the biggest usage rate in OU it should, Metagross sports a x4 resistance to Psychic, neutralizes Signal Beam damage, HP Fighting damage and does a ton of damage. Due to this all psychics need to use HP fire to deal with it and steel types in general which pretty much removes Metagross from the game. Enter Houndoom as a partner to Metagross, not only will it deal with HP Fire and Fire moves in general but it can switch into and punish Weezing using Will O Wisp putting it into a "switch or die" situation. It's also the only thing that can trap and take down Gardevoir without fail, which is something neither Snorlax nor Metagross can do. Now Houndoom won't be S tier in OU, nor A tier, it will probably be B+ tier. While Snorlax is probably a safer trapper and Charizard kinda does better in the special sweeper department it can fill a niche of pretty much neutralizing every psychic type except for Starmie and Slowbro while not being weak to burns. tl;dr: he alright

It'd be fun if they made a forum event to rename all the new stuff though. We could always use Touhoumon names.

Why was Hariyama not dropped to UU for testing? I've literally seen more Pikachu than Hariyama used in OU, it can't be THAT strong.

Keep in mind a lot of people might not bother to re-check the thread since they think their vote still holds up

shiny metagross alternatively a 4x31 ditto to breed into my comp metagross alternatively something that could get kyu to implement u-turn alternatively an uber tier queue alternatively a funny joke to put here

Flygon for A tier:With the inclusion of Scarf this Pokemon got a massive buff. It has great typing with a nearly unresisted STAB Combination in Ground/Dragon while also being good defensively with two immunities to incredibly common offensive types (electric and ground), 3 resists including the common fire and rock types, it has sizeable stats all around and a great arsenal of moves that grant him enough coverage to do what he does best, clean up and revenge kill, it can switch into the common DD users and OHKO them after they boost, as well as present a big threat to any of the 130 base speed tier pokemon.

and heal bell for even more status recovery

While I don't mind not having ranked. Why wouldn't it have ranked?

can you make an uber queue with baton pass allowed so people who want to play the game without these bans and rules can do so? Thanks.

Cool Scizor is UU again, he wasn't OU material in any shape or form.

can roselia pass it down or something

Yes but if baton pass was allowed you'd be able to freely switch into ninjask and haze away their speed boosts, into Scizor, into Umbreon, you name it. You'd gain a lot of utility from Haze if baton pass was allowed. Basically it's an endless circle with people who want it banned. "Baton Pass is broken because there aren't good enough phazers to deal with it" "But here's these phazers that can work pretty well against Baton Pass" "Yeah but these guys don't work well against the top of the top" "Yeah but they work well against most common Baton Pass users" "Yeah but there aren't good enough phazers to deal with Baton Pass to allow it" Etc... If I think one phazer isn't good enough to deal with every threat then it's a possibility for me to decide if I should run two of them (as I do in showdown and I reached 1800+ elo with an unconventional phazer and a pretty common one in the same team), it's the team builder's decision and ability to define which of the options available to him will earn him more wins. Therefore a move with plenty of counterplay shouldn't be banned.

You can't have perfect coverage for everything on every pokemon, it's not like the investment in haze is a bad thing, you might lose some coverage for certain things but in exchange you can deal with setup which is like half the game anyways. I also seem to have forgotten about Rest Roar Gyarados, a quite underrated set tbh.

Phazers: Vaporeon Weezing Steelix Quagsire Tentacruel Dusclops

Baton pass isn't bad for the game, get a Phazer, something with a multi hit move(for Ninjask subs), or a taunt user, you shouldn't ban a move that has a pretty decent amount of counterplay. Hell Shedinja is currently bugged and can't learn the damn move so you can't abuse him.

it's not about ev training it's about how this limits things to ev training mostly, you can't take a whole team of sweet scenters and go hunting at mt ember or some other hard to reach area, you're pretty much confined to using it near a healing area

across all pokemon in your party that have the move....was this necessary?

According to the Pokedex, Dusclops should learn Trick from a move tutor, however whenever I head to the tutor listed here it only offers me to teach it mud slap and Fire Punch. Are the tutors bugged or is there something wrong with the dex?