Aard

I think this one is probably the easiest one to understand my point about chansey. Sure, you can switch chandelure and calm mind up and then barely 2hko it at +6. Obviously we both agree it can kill chansey 1v1. +6 252+ SpA Chandelure Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 357-420 (55.6 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO But there's more ifs there than you are letting on. What if Chansey runs toxic? Are you saying chandelure has to run calm mind and substitute at the price of coverage? Then even if chansey has no thunderwave either and no way of touching chandelure, you still have to set up 6 times with calm mind. Any one of those turns chansey can decide to switch and gain momentum. It gets six opportunities to gain an advantage while you are stuck there setting up. If both opponents are of equal strength that's essentially a 50/50 six times over a situation where chandelure is in the dodging positon and chansey is in the push the button to gain advantage situation. Its not a favorable matchup and is an easy mode for people who are bad at prediction. .5^6 is .015625 btw so its really not good odds for the chandelure to get it right in this situation. There's a lot of variables here but I can't imagine that in an early game scenario the chandelure would be able to use this matchup to its advantage more than 1/3rd of the time. Gaining advantage 1/3rd of the time isn't a hard counter in my opinion even if the 1v1 matchup is won. After all of that calm mind chandelure is really only good against something like chansey. If chansey weren't in the game most of those sets would be chaged to scarf or specs because those sets are more fun to use and more in the spirit of the game. Basically, I think the 1v1 matchup is being valued too much when the reality of the game is gaining tempo off of switches and move predictions. Slowing down the pace of turns to a crawl ruins what I personally find fun about this game. I think at the very least we can all agree conkeldurr is a much more efficient counter to skarmbliss than chandelure. +1 252+ Atk Life Orb Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 733-866 (104.1 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO +1 252+ Atk Life Orb Conkeldurr Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 211-250 (63.3 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery +1 252+ Atk Life Orb Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 157-187 (47.1 - 56.1%) -- 27.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 152-180 (36.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (Not even sheer force added in)

So many of those can easily get thunder waved on the switch and be crippled for the rest of the game. Then after that some of your counters just flat out lose even if they work against blissey. 4 Atk Hydreigon Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 328-386 (45.9 - 54%) 4 Atk Hydreigon Superpower vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 238-282 (33.9 - 40.1%) Reuniclus doesn't counter. Actualyl a very good example of why chansey is more broken than blissey. +6 0 SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 552-649 (78.6 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO +6 0 SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 756-889 (105.8 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO Sure if you let it get up to +6 it can kill chansey, but chansey can switch on any turn and force some tunrs to be recovery through seismic toss so it doesn't actually beat it unless 1v1. Tyranitar doesn't kill reliably either of them unless count 64% accuracy over two turns with stone edge reliable. 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 364-430 (51.8 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 156-184 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- 70.7% chance to 2HKO 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Superpower over 4 turns vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 257-305 (77.1 - 91.5%) -- not a KO Chandelure doesn't counter. Mixed mence doesn't beat chansey. Gengar requires a very specific set of taunt and thunderbolt to beat both which is kind of silly. Basically out of that whole list I agree with Darmanitan and Arcanine. While some of the setup sweepers technically might work are meant to be late game sweepers and wont go through any even poorly designed team. For example, there's not going to be two setup chances with cloyster and it is not an acceptable switch when both teams both still have 6 pokes left. Sure, its possible to beat, but its not fun to play against because the calcs are just awkward and often require a lot of turn stalling to win. Again, eviolite chansey stall is originally why I quit competitive play on smogon to come here. I had a great record against it, but every time I played a 300 turn game I wanted to throw my computer out the window after even if I won. It was fun how games were fast based and offensive here for a while. The eviolite chansey is probably going to destroy that even if conk stays but more so if it is banned.

Come up with pokemon that deal with skarmory and chansey. That is not easy. There are a few, but being restricted to building with just those narrows the meta too much. It is one the braindead stallteam with the 8-9 options that chansey allows that's the issue. It has very few counters, and right now conkeldurr is the best one keeping it at bay.

Life orb sheer force conkeldurr is a better set than flame orb guts though guts can be used on some sets. 1.69 multiplier on attack out the gate is just stronger than status 1.5 buff. Trick room is an inferior gimmick strategy that will never be able to be used well as long as it doesn't have a turn extending item or a stupid opponent. Anyway, conkel was ou in 5th gen so for it to be broken something will have to have changed. " Bulky Psychic-types, such as Celebi, Latias, Reuniclus, Slowbro, and Mew, are some of the best go-to switch-ins, as they take minimal damage from Payback and can retaliate with Psychic; however, some must be cautious of Conkeldurr's coverage moves. Physically defensive bulwarks, such as Hippowdon, Skarmory, Jellicent, and Gliscor, are also effective Conkeldurr checks, but they also need to be wary of its coverage moves. Offensive Gliscor can also pound Conkeldurr with Acrobatics, as can Scizor. Using strong special attackers to puncture through Conkeldurr's low Special Defense is another method to check Conkeldurr, especially under the appropriate weather; these include Latios's Draco Meteor, Keldeo's rain-boosted Hydro Pump, Dragonite's Hurricane, and Volcarona's sun-boosted Fire Blast. It's more difficult to handle Conkeldurr physically due to its high Defense and access to Bulk Up, but using strong Choice Band attackers, such as Garchomp and Dragonite for their powerful Outrage, Landorus-T with its Earthquake, and Breloom with Low Sweep (Breloom can also cripple Conkeldurr with Spore) work well when Conkeldurr is weakened enough, and they can all tank a boosted Mach Punch. " Celebi and latias aren't in the game. Reuniclus is in the game, Slowbro is crippled. Mew isn't in the game. Hippowdown, skarmory, jellicent, and gliscor are all in the game. Scizor is in the game. Latios and keldeo are not in the game, dragonite and volcarona weather sets are crippled due to weather being finite. Garchomp isn't in the game and dragonite don't get powerful outrages. Land-t isn't in the game, and breloom is crippled without technician. Basically, you are forced to put two of these on your team: Reniclus Hippowdon Skarmory Jellicent Gliscor Scizor .. and stuff not mentioned because its more 7th gen or better here ... Cofagrigus Dusclops Pelipper Mantine Is that ban worthy to be forced to have two out of a pool of ten or 15 pokes for one mon? I don't know. I agree its annoying. What I do know is the moment conkeldurr is banned chansey will take over the tier and skarmbliss will ruin the game. For that reason I can't support any conkeldurr ban unless chansey is banned first. The chansey stall should be stopped at all costs. I'm sure some people here like stall and its probably the same group that enjoys scouting opponents and winning off of having a greater amount of comp pokes stored away and having more perfect ivs since defensive stuff in general needs better ivs. The nature of how pvp works here has to favor offense more heavily than defense or it will just turn into a dull meta. Its just funny that a mon is 2nd in usage, gets a huge buff that makes it wall almost twice as much stuff, then people are in the thread discussing banning its best counter. When I first joined this game it was specifically to get away from eviolite chansey which is in my opinion the worst thing nintendo ever did to this game. Its just so unfun to play against in every gen and limits offensive teambuilding to absolutely requiring a physical fighting move (or cb outrage but that's nerfed here too). To make it worse, stuff that beats skarmbliss like infernape isn't implemented. Banning conk would be a huge mistake because there's a much bigger problem.

Except in the suggested I specifically said that someone could not challenge a person with a mewtwo or rayquaza more than once every 18 hours once a battle is lost.

Yeah, that's a shit reason to ban people. How were people supposed ot know selling things at a pokemart for 32 yen per bp was a bug when getting bp got harder in the update? I would've actively been doing it if I hadn't been able to get 35-40 bp for items on the gtl. Things like that make me want to take a long break from this game. Its not even a bug either, its just them being dumb and overlooking a price. That's not what a bug is. I guess its possible it gave more than 3200 per balloon and then it might clue people in, but if it was as the sell price was stated that's completely bogus. I want to know since it will determine my future opinion on this game. I'm not going to play if I could just be banned for finding a slightly "too efficient" way of making money. I might honestly be banned for selling stuff for higher on the gtl now if 32 yen per bp was bannable since just any arbitrary thing can be bug abuse. Isn't the first time people have had this attitude either. Blame the user for playing the game in the most efficient way instead of the devs for not patching holes. I didn't sell any balloons, but I highly considered it before looking at prices on the gtl and I would've never considered that I could get banned for it.

Wait, they really banned for selling air balloons at the sell price? I dodged a bullet by selling stuff on the gtl for 35-40 pokedollars per bp since the update. It was starting to run dry and I was considering the balloon business. They haven't changed the sell price below 32 per bp yet so is it something I can do or not?

But he lost them, not you. Sounds like you're gaining some shinies and comps that you can trade into guild publicity. Sounds like a win to me.

Someone offered you comps and shinies for free and your reaction is to dislike the game? Must be a tough life.

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I've changed my mind on the lead. I think choice scarf intimidate krookodile is the best lead (switch to amulet on last battle). It lowers attack, gets rocks down reliably, and baits out moves setups can switch into. The minus 1 attack is huge in a lot of matchups. Krookodile - lead gorebyss - passer metagross - sweeper1 flygon - sweeper2 volcarona - sweeper3/setup2 dugtrio - memento insurance policy The team works consistently. As bp goes up in money per minute will rise from ~3500 back into the 4-5k range and be worth it again hopefully.

Meowth. I'm using it for pickup so be sure not to evolve it. Thanks for the discount. Where should I send it?

Yeah. Just lvl 50-100 now.

How much for lvl 50-100 on a meowth? Edit: Nvm, already getting it trained. Good luck with your shop.

I'll pay 150k for the full service on a mon, ev training and leveling to 100. Edit: Just need the lvl 50-100 service now.

I can, I'd just rather pay someone to walk there for me since the net profit is about 5k if I pay htem 15k since by walking there I lose out on 20k. Its a good way to meet people, you should try it. I agree walking to the red and yellow shard tutors in particular is a pain.

If it was 5x31 it is better as a Blissey anyway. There is no reason to get 31 spatk on Chansey. Breeding a 4x31 or a 3x31 (since speed isn't that important either) will be a lot less money.

I've paid people 15k before to go tutor my pokemon on the sevii islands because I realized I could beat 2 gyms or an elite 4 member quicker than I could get to the shard tutor. I'm okay with spending money on things like that and new players tend to think you are giving them free stuff when it is actually more efficient for you. Anyway, that should solve your problem.

Reducing the encounter rate wouldn't be much trouble. And alts could easily abuse getting the 550 bp off the uu or nu ladder but I don't see that stopping the reward. I don't even know if alt accounts could abuse this effectively if the loser gets put on a cooldown. The person would need a lot of alt accounts. And then other real people would show up to challenge.

You go out to Cerulean gave, spend hours grinding away. When you least expect it a Mewtwo appears and you catch it and everyone wants to battle you. But for what? Pokedex entries? It would be cool if every win someone gets involving Mewtwo or Rayquaza earned money and some battle points. Maybe even make it stack higher and higher the more wins someone gets in a row. That way you actually have a money making system that's not pure grinding or pure pvp but something in between. And sure, maybe you guys are worried it could be abused by groups of friends, but surely there would be some way to get around that. The same person can't battle for a mewtwo after losing on an 18 hour cooldown or something. Anyway, the legendary mechanic is in the game already and it would go a little bit toward solving the problem of money making being kind of boring. Not to mention all the people whining about an ubers tier would sort of get it with this if it was enough money for people to put together teams. I'm not going to give an exact reward value but the key is the reward has to be substantial and advertised as such so people get competitive about it.

dragonite, scizor, excadrill, gengar, arcanine, hippowdon That's the easiest way I could come up with of making the team playable while keeping as much of it as possible. You didn't give sets though so I won't either. Basically, you don't need a jolteon and a gengar and if you have an excadrill you might as well pair it with sandstorm since the strategy wil lbe better with the weather rocks added.

Ok, I envy you if you can enjoy this sort of thing for 80-100 hours because that's how long it will take.

I think you're missing the concept of "time is money". In this game, a good rate of money per minute is around $4000 which means in an hour its $240000 or a quarter of a million. Lets say the lowest shiny on the market is 1 mil. You have a four hour time limit on your method for it to be worth it even if you are just swindling people. I will say its playtime so if something takes a week to sell but it took only 2 minutes to put on the market, that's only 2 minutes of time wasted. Anyway, I don't think you'll be able to generate 1 mil out of nowhere in under 4 hours. Obviously, you'll eventually be able to do it, but it will be very inefficient.

Say you want a +atk haxorus. You breed your 31 atk iv haxorus out but get a hardy haxorus because you fail at using everstones. You could go get a haxorus with the right nature that has 0 attack ivs and its attack will be higher. So, it does matter. How high the base stat is changes it some but either way learn how to make everstones so you quit making garbage pokes.

Yeah, I'm not going to buy all of the pieces right now to test. Here's some tools I know of if anyone wants to give it a go: lead stuff: Swampert: counter mirror coat stealth rock yawn Bronzong heatproof - light clay lead: reflect light screen stealth rock maybe rain dance or sunny day to help gorebyss or volc Dugtrio arena trap: stealth rock memento earthquake filler shedinja can be any level, just a slow pass pivot if lead matchup is bad: baton pass sweepers: conkeldurr sheer force if there's a way to get it fast enough its the best attacker in the game: drain punch thunder punch ice punch bulk up haxorus mold breaker: golurk iron fist (also slow but hits hard and has interesting immunities): shadow punch drain punch filler I'm also wondering if its possible to make a team out of light screen/reflect chanseys, a wish user, wobbuffets, and counter coat swampert. Only physical ghosts and special darks wall it. Don't really know if the ai deals with that or not. Anyway, the good news is the reward will go up on its own if no one can beat it since bp will start to be worth more and more. Right now im pretty safe if I lead with swampert rocks then kill it, then memento with dugtrio into gorebyss. The problem is the reward isn't really worth 2 guaranteed revives per battle yet.