[Denied]Money Sink Idea - Purchase a Higher IV in a Single Stat

[sherdoonach]

I think every competitive player has a pokemon that makes them think "If only this stat was higher this comp would be godly".

I think it would be cool to be able to purchase an increase in a single iv on a pokemon for a high price. 

example, at the cost of 500k you could receive an increase in one iv.

 

Things to take into account:

• To prevent it from being overpowered, it could be that the increase is a roll randomly generated between 25 and 31.
• The increase could only be purchased once per pokemon, otherwise any pokemon could become comp.
• Certain shiny pokemons value could increase far beyond that of a normal comp if there ivs were bumped. 

I have seen one of the devs talking about this roll as a possible prize for completing the NYI battle tower (I can't remember where). 

 

 

[iSmashbro]

Ignoring the fact that most people are struggling to make money as it is, this would be incredibly broken

[sherdoonach]

Ignoring the fact that most people are struggling to make money as it is, this would be incredibly broken

ignoring that fact. how?

[Quakkz]

-> quitting pokemmo if this happens at any time. next step is we can connect our pokemoncheatmodul to pokemmo o_O

[Emlee]

The last update/hotfix made an obvious (and much needed) step away from the rich getting richer and moved to levelling the playing field with breeding. It would be taking a step backwards to allow individuals with PokeYen to spare to benefit from this in terms of IVs. It may not be as bad as pumping the market full of perfectly bred Pokemon from two perfect and expensive parents, but it's giving an obvious advantage to those who are already doing well. 

 

In my opinion extremely competitive Pokemon should be made a bit more rare and valuable again, not obtained by some money. Also paying for IVs is a concept too distant from the Pokemon games for me. 

[Fluffyknowsyou]

I'd rather breeding being made a little easier than to make 1 iv 25 automatically

[Asakano]

I do NOT support pay2win

[sherdoonach]

everyone complaining about the rich benefiting more, well obviously. why shouldnt players who spend time to become rich be rewarded for it? and it is nowhere near a level playing field, i can afford more comps than some people yet there are a lot of people who can afford comps much better than i could. 

also i mentioned that a developper of this game considered rewarding people with this same iv bump.

[sherdoonach]

I do NOT support pay2win

pay to win implies real life money is being used.

[Quakkz]

everyone complaining about the rich benefiting more, well obviously. why shouldnt players who spend time to become rich be rewarded for it? and it is nowhere near a level playing field, i can afford more comps than some people yet there are a lot of people who can afford comps much better than i could. 

also i mentioned that a developper of this game considered rewarding people with this same iv bump.

players who spent a lot of time are rewarded by getting/encountering more pokemon = more chances on got ivs. its your choice what u do with your time, some grind money, some encounters money. u know before what opportunities u have and dont have with money when u decide to "become rich".

[Emlee]

It's more along the lines that players with extra PokeYen can have some sort of definite control over IVs of a Pokemon. You have influence over IVs when it comes to breeding, but recent updates have made it also luck based and a bit more akin to hunting wild Pokemon. 

 

From a player's perspective you can see how it would be beneficial to you to tweek that one IV that just isn't working out for your Pokemon that is otherwise competitively viable, but you're also lowering the value of a competitive Pokemon by doing that. You need to consider it from a game mechanics and longitivtiy perspective. Earning PokeYen in game is guaranteed, you can put in effort to collect it and you will get consistent returns. Breeding and catching competitive Pokemon is not consistent with effort though, you can increase your chances with effort but your effort does not guarantee it. Yes, you can put time and effort, theoretically, into collecting PokeYen to purchase a competitive Pokemon but this competitive Pokemon was already on the market and that means it's not devaluing competitive Pokemon. 

 

Overall I do not believe currency should make a competitive Pokemon more valuable in any way. On a bigger scale this would also apply to using PokeYen to turn a Pokemon shiny, it's just not a good idea for the market. 

 

EDIT: Also moving towards levelling the playing field does not mean that it is currently levelled/fair, but steps in the right direction have obviously been occurring recently and undoing those is a bad idea, in my opinion.

[sherdoonach]

It's more along the lines that players with extra PokeYen can have some sort of definite control over IVs of a Pokemon. You have influence over IVs when it comes to breeding, but recent updates have made it also luck based and a bit more akin to hunting wild Pokemon. 

 

From a player's perspective you can see how it would be beneficial to you to tweek that one IV that just isn't working out for your Pokemon that is otherwise competitively viable, but you're also lowering the value of a competitive Pokemon by doing that. You need to consider it from a game mechanics and longitivtiy perspective. Earning PokeYen in game is guaranteed, you can put in effort to collect it and you will get consistent returns. Breeding and catching competitive Pokemon is not consistent with effort though, you can increase your chances with effort but your effort does not guarantee it. Yes, you can put time and effort, theoretically, into collecting PokeYen to purchase a competitive Pokemon but this competitive Pokemon was already on the market and that means it's not devaluing competitive Pokemon. 

 

Overall I do not believe currency should make a competitive Pokemon more valuable in any way. On a bigger scale this would also apply to using PokeYen to turn a Pokemon shiny, it's just not a good idea for the market. 

 

EDIT: Also moving towards levelling the playing field does not mean that it is currently levelled/fair, but steps in the right direction have obviously been occurring recently and undoing those is a bad idea, in my opinion.

I see your point, that the influx of all these perfect comps will make every other comp devalue and therefore will harm the market. I will come back to this.

From a competitive standpoint, this whole idea is not a bad thing as there is godly comps in use already, so no major advantage will be given to someone who can afford to improve competitive pokemon they already have. In fact, it would help to balance the playing field and let players catch up on those who have comps with 28 ivs across the board. So from, a competitive standpoint I do not see this as broken. Are we in agreement here?

 

I agree though, that this could hurt the value of other competitive pokemon on the market, if the improved comps were tradable. So lets look at the idea that the comps can not be traded to another account, and become locked to the account in which they were improved (Mewtwo and starters under 25 are locked to each account so the mechanics are already in place for this to be implemented). This means that a person who has spent hours grinding for a pokemon and has caught a pokemon 25/25/25/5/25/31 can improve there own comp for their own use on their own account, and thus not affect the market in any way. If you think that this idea discourages trading well then this is incorrect because the easiest and most common way to get $500,000 is to trade with other players. So what happens is players trade together and circulate money, then spend it on something so that it can not be reinvested in to the market -- a perfect money sink.

[Ishimaru]

it would break breeding even more with the pseudo rolls.

[Emlee]

I see your point, that the influx of all these perfect comps will make every other comp devalue and therefore will harm the market. I will come back to this.

From a competitive standpoint, this whole idea is not a bad thing as there is godly comps in use already, so no major advantage will be given to someone who can afford to improve competitive pokemon they already have. In fact, it would help to balance the playing field and let players catch up on those who have comps with 28 ivs across the board. So from, a competitive standpoint I do not see this as broken. Are we in agreement here?

 

I agree though, that this could hurt the value of other competitive pokemon on the market, if the improved comps were tradable. So lets look at the idea that the comps can not be traded to another account, and become locked to the account in which they were improved (Mewtwo and starters under 25 are locked to each account so the mechanics are already in place for this to be implemented). This means that a person who has spent hours grinding for a pokemon and has caught a pokemon 25/25/25/5/25/31 can improve there own comp for their own use on their own account, and thus not affect the market in any way. If you think that this idea discourages trading well then this is incorrect because the easiest and most common way to get $500,000 is to trade with other players. So what happens is players trade together and circulate money, then spend it on something so that it can not be reinvested in to the market -- a perfect money sink.

 

Are these improved competitives neutered/spayed? They would affect the market via breeding if not, regardless of them being static themselves in the market.

 

Your idea of balancing the playing field is more along the lines of making it easier for competitive players to have Pokemon that are competitive. Levelling the playing field should make it so that already rich players and new players both have a good chance at having competitive Pokemon without flooding the market. The advantage you should obtain from being rich is that you can purchase/trade/acquire competitive Pokemon through your riches that have entered the market in the normal fashion (you're skipping the luck/work process, but you're not creating comps with your riches). I can see why it's beneficial for people who play the game and enter tournaments, but that does not mean it's advantageous for the game as a whole. 

[sherdoonach]

it would break breeding even more with the pseudo rolls.

ok another idea, lets say that the pseudo rolls apply only in battle. no op breeding concerns(even though godly pokemon already exist), no market concerns, just a stronger comp pokemon for a player. 

 

emlee: yes lets say that these pokemon are effectively neutered, for every facet of the game apart from in battle the upgraded pokemon are virtually the same as they were before the upgrade. if they were to be traded, there stats would revert to how they were before the upgrade, same goes for if they were used to breed.

[Emlee]

ok another idea, lets say that the pseudo rolls apply only in battle. no op breeding concerns(even though godly pokemon already exist), no market concerns, just a stronger comp pokemon for a player. 

 

It's still a market concern with it as it decreases the usefulness of trading if you can create/catch an almost perfect Pokemon and then correct a stat. Just because you have put all types of restrictions on it to prevent it from producing off spring and being traded you've still created a competitive Pokemon for use. One that you will use instead of possibly finding in the market.  

 

Also consider that it will be the new standard for IVs to be improved in this way. What happens when everyone is improving them in this way? The change becomes negated among richer competitive players. You've all collectively used your PokeYen to get to a new standard

[sherdoonach]

It's still a market concern with it as it decreases the usefulness of trading if you can create/catch an almost perfect Pokemon and then correct a stat. Just because you have put all types of restrictions on it to prevent it from producing off spring and being traded you've still created a competitive Pokemon for use. One that you will use instead of possibly finding in the market.  

 

Also consider that it will be the new standard for IVs to be improved in this way. What happens when everyone is improving them in this way? The change becomes negated among richer competitive players. You've all collectively used your PokeYen to get to a new standard

In order to pay the price to improve a comp you will need to trade to earn it.

I will give u an example that applies to me. I recently opened a thread looking for a hasty gengar. I was offered one with 31 att, spatk and speed, but i couldnt afford it. I instead settled for one with 31 spatk and speed (which other people probably couldnt afford). So why not give me  the opportunity to catch up with the richer people who can afford the perfect 31,31,31 offensive gengar, as well as give the people who cant afford to settle for the 2,31,31 gengar that i now own a chance to catch up to me. 

If the price is high enough it will be rarely used by most, if not all people. In the rare case that a really good pokemon will become a really great pokemon people might take the plunge. Its not as if people with a decent starmie with 20 speed are going to splash out 500k on a chance they will roll 31 speed. A person with a Starmie 28/x/28/4/28/31 will pay to improve this near perfect comp.

 

anyway i have to go to sleep now, night :)

[Emlee]

In order to pay the price to improve a comp you will need to trade to earn it.

I will give u an example that applies to me. I recently opened a thread looking for a hasty gengar. I was offered one with 31 att, spatk and speed, but i couldnt afford it. I instead settled for one with 31 spatk and speed (which other people probably couldnt afford). So why not give me  the opportunity to catch up with the richer people who can afford the perfect 31,31,31 offensive gengar, as well as give the people who cant afford to settle for the 2,31,31 gengar that i now own a chance to catch up to me. 

If the price is high enough it will be rarely used by most, if not all people. In the rare case that a really good pokemon will become a really great pokemon people might take the plunge. Its not as if people with a decent starmie with 20 speed are going to splash out 500k on a chance they will roll 31 speed. A person with a Starmie 28/x/28/4/28/31 will pay to improve this near perfect comp.

 

anyway i have to go to sleep now, night :)

I can understand where you're coming from, I guess from my point of view I take issue with a reliant/consistent resource (PokeYen) equating value to an inconsistent resource with a luck factor (hunting/breeding). 

 

Nonetheless, you're correct in saying the price will determine how much of an impact it will have and how true my predictions would be for sure. An extremely high price would make this less of a concern for the majority of things I stated.

 

Also, have a nice night. 

[Malorne]

 

Rather than wasting my money on a stat... i prefer buying more pokeballs and hunt for a better one..............

[Dannnno]

The last update/hotfix made an obvious (and much needed) step away from the rich getting richer and moved to levelling the playing field with breeding. 

 

Unless they plan on removing eggs and shinies too do you actually think it really has done so? Sure it made a good step towards leveling the playing field with regard to PokeYen, but as long as the egg/shiny market is untouched the rich will continue to not use PokeYen as their primary currency. 

 

everyone complaining about the rich benefiting more, well obviously. why shouldnt players who spend time to become rich be rewarded for it? and it is nowhere near a level playing field, i can afford more comps than some people yet there are a lot of people who can afford comps much better than i could. 

also i mentioned that a developper of this game considered rewarding people with this same iv bump.

 

I tend to agree with Emlee that there needs to be a distinction between effort based stuff and luck based stuff.  If we let people spend money to improve pokemon then it devalues existing competitive pokemon etc etc yada yada emlee has said most of what I want to say

 

I agree though, that this could hurt the value of other competitive pokemon on the market, if the improved comps were tradable. So lets look at the idea that the comps can not be traded to another account, and become locked to the account in which they were improved

 

This seems as though it will create significantly more work for the devs to code, and significantly more work for the players to keep track of things (and if they're breedable its even more broken)

[Emlee]

Unless they plan on removing eggs and shinies too do you actually think it really has done so? Sure it made a good step towards leveling the playing field with regard to PokeYen, but as long as the egg/shiny market is untouched the rich will continue to not use PokeYen as their primary currency. 

 

 

No, I have not stated the playing field has been completely levelled. Nor do I openly believe it should be levelled in terms of shinys. A step in the right direction is not a completed process, if that clarifies it a bit. 

[Xenocider]

Unless they plan on removing eggs and shinies too do you actually think it really has done so? Sure it made a good step towards leveling the playing field with regard to PokeYen, but as long as the egg/shiny market is untouched the rich will continue to not use PokeYen as their primary currency. 

 

 

 

 

Eggs have and are dropping in price. People are liquidating them for currency.  Some users have 10 million+ in currency from selling eggs.  Lower end shinies are being sold for pokeyen as well the more the egg deflates.   The reason high end shinies have not been sold for pokeyen yet is  no one or almost no one has acquired enough yen to be worth that type of shiny yet.

 

For proof of this go look in the thread asking who has the most money.  Most of the high numbers were from egg sellers.  This means people value having that currency over the egg even if its a little bit. Time will mean more begin to accept it as currency by building trust in its stability.  A currency becomes a currency by people trusting its ability to retain value. The pokeyen is fairly quickly making steps in that direction. It isn't instant.

 

Give it 2-3 months and you will have the pokeyen be the currency for shinies as well as everything else within the game. It is a solid currency.  I would assume most shiny traders are just waiting on the dust to settle with price changes before selling their shinies for currency.

[Dannnno]

Eggs have and are dropping in price. People are liquidating them for currency.  Some users have 10 million+ in currency from selling eggs.  Lower end shinies are being sold for pokeyen as well the more the egg deflates.   The reason high end shinies have not been sold for pokeyen yet is  no one or almost no one has acquired enough yen to be worth that type of shiny yet.

 

For proof of this go look in the thread asking who has the most money.  Most of the high numbers were from egg sellers.  This means people value having that currency over the egg even if its a little bit. Time will mean more begin to accept it as currency by building trust in its stability.  A currency becomes a currency by people trusting its ability to retain value. The pokeyen is fairly quickly making steps in that direction. It isn't instant.

 

Give it 2-3 months and you will have the pokeyen be the currency for shinies as well as everything else within the game. It is a solid currency.  I would assume most shiny traders are just waiting on the dust to settle with price changes before selling their shinies for currency.

 

honestly I think anyone who uses PokeYen to buy eggs/shinies/whatever is smart, but anyone who sells them for PokeYen isn't.  There are still insufficient money sinks imo that even with money being harder to get, people will still accumulate it.  We don't see it yet but I doubt that the dust will settle on anything but inflation.

 

this is all dependent on how long it takes the next update to come, and on whether or not there is a good money sink or four in it

[Xenocider]

honestly I think anyone who uses PokeYen to buy eggs/shinies/whatever is smart, but anyone who sells them for PokeYen isn't.  There are still insufficient money sinks imo that even with money being harder to get, people will still accumulate it.  We don't see it yet but I doubt that the dust will settle on anything but inflation.

 

this is all dependent on how long it takes the next update to come, and on whether or not there is a good money sink or four in it

 

I agree to an extent.  I was moreso addressing the usefulness of the pokeyen, which it has plenty.   A money sink is completely necessary for it to maintain value but as it stands, it is doing fine because people are selling for the money.  There needs to be multiple sinks for the market to stabilize. 

 

 

You need a sink for both ends of the market high and low.  There are people who disagree with me here but it is what keeps the rich from getting richer.  A common commodity only goes so far even in the real world.

[Zehkar]

This will not be implemented because of the simple fact that it would be too easy. Even if the price is high, this would pretty much render breeding useless. Simply paying money to instantly make a pokemon better seems quite lazy. If you want to make a pokemon better, then you should breed(which costs less than 500k, depending on how good you want the pokemon to be).