AFK Button Clause

[Noad]

i think lower level staff have been awesome of late. For the last few months, really. But for the reasons I've already stated, staff (non devs) don't have to TRY to change anything to fix this problem. They simply need to take this rule away until it can be fairly and properly enforced. And if staff don't think this is the right decision, let's hear why

64 man tournaments, time clause and the AFK time-out clause are currently being discussed. We don't want you to think that we are ignoring this thread/ events feedback thread and they are being factored into our discussions. One of us will post again if any changes are decided. 

[codylramey]

Just have it to where you have to whisper the ref,who will in turn whisper the opponent that the timer is showing, b4 you are allowwed to afk.

[Gunthug]

He's right, absolutely no one in this thread has made an argument disagreeing with him and his notion of entirely removing the AFK timeliness clause.

[spoiler]If only because of a little thing called confirmation bias.[/spoiler]

I should have said "I've seen no GOOD argument to the contrary"

 

 

Just have it to where you have to whisper the ref,who will in turn whisper the opponent that the timer is showing, b4 you are allowwed to afk.

But why even go through all this trouble? What good is the AFK button clause doing?

 

Like I said, the only way to abuse not having it would be to stall until time clause double DQ, but uh, this has happened plenty of times even with the rule. Clearly, the double DQ 45 minute time clause can be abused with or w/o the AFK button clause, so just dropping the AFK button clause and giving battlers some peace of mind seems to be the most logical solution to me - Until they can incorporate a very simple, convenient move timer, I mean

Edited March 22, 2015 by Gunthug

[codylramey]

The afk timer, as well as time clause, is there to help tournies not take forever. Also isnt my suggestion the exact way it use to be? (just remembered that).

 

Do the refs spec the entire battle while refing? If not then we could just hold an entier tier of the bracket at once to speed the torunies along couldnt we?

[Gunthug]

You're not helping your case. Anyway, the AFK rule should remain because to remove it is to remove a guarantee of timeliness from battles and I'm not waiting for people like you to turn a fun tourney into Smogon-esque games of calc chess. Pokemon is already a game of chess. If you have an inkling of what you're doing as a trainer, then just do it. It's simple.

There is already a guarantee of timeliness from battles - it's called the 45 minute Time Clause. There's a timer that is displayed on the top left portion of the screen for duels in tournament mode. This timer shows the overall time of the duel. You can see when you're approaching the 45 minute mark of the match, and adjust your speed accordingly to ensure you don't get DQd.

 

Compare that to the AFK button clause that you are so valiantly defending. You have no idea when you're approaching the 75 second AFK button appearance unless you

 

A. eyeball it against the overall duel timer, which can be unnecessarily difficult when you're already in a time crunch to choose your next move (Say, for example, your move starts at 14:38)

 

or B. Open up yet another browser/tab (likely in addition to a calculator website if you like having that handy) and manually time your own moves. Remember, some people can't run pokemmo and another window at the same time, especially during crowded tournaments, and rely on others for calcs (which IMO isn't coaching)

 

So, because the current methods for preventing getting DQd by this way are inadequate, the rule shouldn't be used until a timer is implemented.

 

 

 

One of my biggest problems with the rule is that it just puts unnecessary pressure on the dueler. No one wants to be the guy who loses a match solely because they used 76 seconds to pick a move, which can lead to rushed decisions in crucial moments.

[Vaeldras]

We need the afk button because otherwise one could simply spend 10 minutes before choosing his move.

The timer is really needed on the other hand

[jayfeatskydd]

We need the afk button because otherwise one could simply spend 10 minutes before choosing his move.

The timer is really needed on the other hand

I don't think anyone wants the button gone.

The point is to remove the relatively new rule that allows it to be click on sight, as opposed to post rules that allowed it be clicked only in much more extreme cases.(Actually AFK or literally taking a few minutes a turn)

Edited March 22, 2015 by jayfeatskydd

[Vaeldras]

I don't think anyone wants the button gone.

The point is to remove the relatively new rule that allows it to be click on sight, as opposed to post rules that allowed it be clicked only in much more extreme cases.(Actually AFK or literally taking a few minutes a turn)

 

You don't really need more than 100 secs x turn unless you actually want to run calcs. 

Maybe 2 minutes, but more would be too much.

Besides i'm the only one who still double switches, so kek.

Seriously, your turns will be way shorter after you get a good coin.

 

But again, does it even happen? does anyone actually afk on sight?

[Gunthug]

You don't really need more than 100 secs x turn unless you actually want to run calcs. 

Maybe 2 minutes, but more would be too much.

Besides i'm the only one who still double switches, so kek.

Seriously, your turns will be way shorter after you get a good coin.

 

But again, does it even happen? does anyone actually afk on sight?

Yes. It has happened quite a few times in the last week in high profile tournaments

[Gunthug]

Honestly I've just been repeating what I said in my first post, which pretty much shuts down the original post's argument in 1/4th the wordcount, but I'll continue defending my point of view.
 

That clause disqualifies and punishes BOTH people, rather than only the indecisive jerk who's wasting time running calcs and therefore is not an appropriate guarantee that I won't get screwed over by you.
 

I agree that an invisible timer is a terrible idea, but listen closely because I do not agree with you overall: the rule should not go away. It may be inadequate, but it's better than having no timer at all for several obvious reasons, including my response above.
 

Human error is a part of battling and, more broadly, video games in general. Accept it, or at the very least get used to it.

Let's do a little math. Each duel has 45 minutes until you get Double DQd, and you claim that this AFK button clause protects you from that. 45 minutes is 2700 seconds. 2700/75 (the amount of seconds you have for each move) is 36. A player need only stretch a duel for 36 turns to screw you and himself over.

 

If someone wants to hit time clause, they can. With or w/o the AFK button clause. So, knowing now that your "but it protects me from getting time claused" argument simply doesn't work...do you have any other valid reasons why the rule shouldn't be removed pending a visible timer?

 

You seem to be a pretty calc-averse person...what did calcs ever do to you? Did you have a bad experience with a calc as a child or something?

[Gunthug]

I have nothing against calcs, just against giving people infinite time to sperg out rather than rely on their own skills and knowledge. By removing the timer, bad or not, anyone can take as long as they please and I ain't havin' that shit. Keep the battle moving or don't join tournies.

By leaving the blind timer in, anyone, bad or not, can play a game of whack a mole to earn a free spot in the next round. The timer isn't going anywhere, by the way. I'm not saying we should remove the timer, and I don't really understand why you keep saying that. I'm saying we should remove the insta-click dq clause that currently haunts official tournaments

[Gunthug]

Do you mind if I [spoiler]dip my pretzel in that salt?[/spoiler]

What the fuck are you even talking about? I've never been dq'd by an AFK button press. Is it just impossible for you to comprehend that I might be arguing for temporary removal of the clause because it's common sense, and not because of some personal vendetta?

[ThinkNice]

Why don't you two just agree to disagree.

[Gunthug]

Why don't you two just agree to disagree.

that's a sign of weakness

 

[spoiler]not srs lel but a weak argument doesn't sit well with me[/spoiler]

Edited March 23, 2015 by Gunthug

[ThinkNice]

that's a sign of weakness

Don't make me pull that Ninetailes.jpeg on you fgt

[Gunthug]

Don't make me pull that Ninetailes.jpeg on you uguu

please don't

[BurntZebra]

Let's do a little math. Each duel has 45 minutes until you get Double DQd, and you claim that this AFK button clause protects you from that. 45 minutes is 2700 seconds. 2700/75 (the amount of seconds you have for each move) is 36. A player need only stretch a duel for 36 turns to screw you and himself over.

 

If someone wants to hit time clause, they can. With or w/o the AFK button clause. So, knowing now that your "but it protects me from getting time claused" argument simply doesn't work...do you have any other valid reasons why the rule shouldn't be removed pending a visible timer?

 

You seem to be a pretty calc-averse person...what did calcs ever do to you? Did you have a bad experience with a calc as a child or something?

Basically what Senile was suggesting before, that the AFK timer actually supports trying to time clause as a strategy

[fredrichnietze]

dos anyone think showdown style timer is a bad idea? or that there is a better one? if so pls tell me now and why.

[codylramey]

I like the idea of having a good amout of time per turn at the begining of the match and have the timer gradually widdle down as the match goes on. So like you start out with like 2 min per turn then after the first 5 min of the match you get 1:45 until you get down to lets say 15-30 sec per turn at lets say the 45 min mark. This will hlp keep torunies shorter bc you will evenrually have less time to think at the end when it rly matters so someone is bound to fuck up or if someone just has it in the bag it will take less time for the match to come to its inevidable end..

 

The numbers i used are random and only serve as an example.

Edited March 23, 2015 by codylramey

[OldKeith]

dos anyone think showdown style timer is a bad idea? or that there is a better one? if so pls tell me now and why.

 

I like the showdown timer because it punishes a stalling player (by stalling, I mean taking ages to pick a move). The more time he spends on one turn, the less he will have on the next.

[Gunthug]

I completely agree with the sentiment that the timer itself needs some work. And I'm fine with discussing possible changes to the timer, such as allowing more time for those who choose moves quickly, and less and less time for those who continuously burn time move after move. I've seen some creative solutions so far

 

Keep in mind, though, that the most pressing issue now is whether or not the rule should even be in place w/o a visible timer

[TheRealPhatiman]

Well, recently senile made a thread about time clause, which I think is a very complex issue that requires a lot of thought. However, there's another clause which we're all familiar with, and its the one that allows you to hit the AFK button when your opponent takes longer than 45 seconds to make a move.

 

Unlike the issue of the 45 minute time clause dq, this is not a complex issue. This is an issue with a clear solution, and without that solution, the rule needs to go. What's sad is, players are getting shamed for utilizing this rule, when it's not their fault - this is clearly, 100% the fault of the staff who enforce this rule at tournaments, and the devs who seem too lazy to do something about it.

 

Simply put, without being able to see a timer that shows us how much longer we have to make a move, this rule is completely and utterly unfair, and quite frankly, a load of shit. It allows a lesser player to literally hover their mouse over the AFK button and wait for their opponent to slip up while deliberating a move.

 

Let's face it - situations arise constantly in a duel when you need to devote more time to a decision than at other times in the duel. Sometimes, you can't really know the best move until you do a calc or two - this takes time, quite often longer than 45 seconds. But forget about the length of the timer, because as it stands right now, the only way to know how much longer you have until the AFK button pops up is to manually use the overall duel timer to track the 45 seconds. A difficult task, given everything else you're doing in the duel. Plus, >math...imagine ur turn starting at 17:37. What am I, a calculator?

 

At the end of the day, the 45 minute time clause rule is there to prevent duels from going too long. Abolishing this stupid rule would give people the option of intentionally stretching the duel to hit time clause and a double DQ - but guess what? That's already pretty easy to do with the AFK button rule in place, so who cares? In the meantime, players are getting the boot from tournaments for taking 46 seconds to make a move. Think about that.

 

The rule is absolutely ridiculous, and it is irresponsible for staff to continue to allow for this horribly unfair rule to be in place simply because it's less work for them. Please, staff, stop enforcing this rule at tournaments until we can see how much time is left per move.

Just read this and was too lazy to go through the thread,so sorry to the people who had strong arguements for the clause,im not disregarding your opinion,just too lazy to read them lol

 

Honestly,Il never forget the day this rule became a thing,we went from hitting the afk being a disqualifiable offense to it being something condoned and encouraged..while I think its fair to an extent what I dont feel is it being enforced in an offical,where people get srs and run calcs and actually think 4-5 steps ahead and have a multitude of scenarios to contemplate,it forces players to rush and thus make bad moves in the fear of being afked..kinda taints the comp scene imo..also what happened to honour?most players if not all(its still that way right?) confirm if the player is there and then wait afterwards to confirm they afk before pressing it,its good sportsmanship at the bare minimum..

 

+1 completely support this

[Noad]

I'm posting this here as well as Events Suggestions and Feedback.

 

As promised, I am posting the outcome of the discussion between staff members about the recent issues brought up regarding events.

 

Regarding Time Clause, we have decided that we are not going to deviate from how it is currently. Unfortunately time plays a big

part against us in tournaments, this is both from a staff and player perspective.

 

We simply cannot let a match go on for hours, especially one that occurs in the second or third round, this would hold up the tournament for the other players and we do not feel that this is fair.

Time Clause will continue to not be enforced in the Semi Finals or Final round, however.

We hope that you understand that this was a difficult decision to make but we feel that it is the best one given the circumstances we are currently in.

 

Regarding 64 man tournaments, we will not be making these a standard for tournaments and tournaments will continue to have a 32 man bracket size. However, this does not mean that we will not be running any at all. I am certainly interested and enthusiastic about hosting more 64 man tournaments in the future and I am really excited about my UU 64 man coming up on Sunday.

 

The Spring Championships will continue to be 32 man bracket sizes as this is what it was originally laid out as and we feel that 10 chances to get in a bracket is very realistic and possible. This does not mean that we are ignoring your feedback or the amount of sign ups that the first qualifier had received, this will all be very much taken into account for any possible future Masters-esque tournament series.

 

Regarding the AFK Clause, after much discussion we have decided to trial the removal of this clause from Semi Finals and Finals battles. This means that participants will need referee approval to press the AFK button if you are duelling in any of these rounds. The AFK Clause will remain for Rounds 1-3. Again, the purpose behind this is the time constraints that we are under when hosting and playing in tournaments.

 

Thank you for your understanding and I hope to see many of you in our upcoming tournaments.

[BurntZebra]

rip my OU career

[flavajabari]

what about a visible timer ?