JJ Bored at a Friend's House: UU Edition

[DoubleJ]

UU is in a bit of a conundrum. We have 12 bans to Borderline and multiple requests to ban Chansey, which many believe to be the biggest problem today. Our meta is currently in a bit of tight pickle considering it can't add or subtract any pokemon based on usage, due to the suspect testing in OU. Despite all of this though, we even made a couple drastic additions by bringing back down Umbreon, Alakazam, Charizard, Slowking, Scizor, and Machamp (moved back to BL). 

 

Nevertheless, I decided to outline a few changes that I feel would be beneficial for the tier to take a step forward.

 

Proposed Changes to the PokeMMO Underused Tier:

 

1. Ban Chansey to Borderline

 

Chansey is clearly Uber under the defensive characteristic. It walls all special attackers, mostly because we lack a reliable Fighting special-attack, and it can stall out many UU Walls with Wish + Protect + Seismic Toss + Toxic. It can also hurt many Choice Band users by simply using Protect to scout the incoming move. While this isn't necessarily a reason to ban it, it is another reason supporting its ability to stall out your opponent.

 

Pros: Special Attackers will become more viable without Chansey, the meta will no longer revolve around Chansey, other play-styles can flourish without the dominance of Chansey and stall

Cons: Special Attackers like Alakazam may become too powerful and a reliance on Umbreon might develop

 

2. Suspect Test Alakazam when Chansey is Banned

 

Without Chansey, I feel that Alakazam would prove to be a problem in UU. While this is simply an assumption, I would hope that an immediate suspect test would be made to figure out if this thing is a problem. While Umbreon is a good counter, I would hate to see an Umbreon on 70% of teams just to stop a possible Alakazam threat. There are multiple things that can check Alakazam outright, but the threat of an unknown Hidden Power could foil those plans.

 

Pros: Alakazam has the speed and power to plow through a team without a reliable special wall, making it potentially Uber by the Offensive Characteristic there aren't many options to switch in on Zam, Alakazam will become one hell of a revenge killer

Cons: We have answers in UU for Alakazam, namely Priority attacks, steel-types (if no HP Fire), and dark-types (if no Signal Beam), it's also pretty frail and can't switch in on an attack itself

 

 

3. Players should begin to embrace the offensive approach

 

Underused has an amazing array of offensive threats, from Swellow to Manectric to CM Slowking to SD Zangoose to Flail Kingler, but unfortunately players are just using the same old stall team. Whether this is because of how good Chansey is or whether it's just a comfortable tactic, a very effective play-style is being passed up for another. In my assessment, once players begin to shake up the meta for themselves there could be some real diversity developing. 

 

Players should use their own creativity rather than copying the team that won the previous UU Official.

 

 

 

 

[fredrichnietze]

ok once and for all.

 

zam will not beat umbreon .all umbreon has to do is switch in and zam is done for.

0 Atk Umbreon Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 62-74 (47.6 - 56.9%) -- 87.1% chance to 2HKO

(this is not on switch and switch 1hko)

252+ SpA Alakazam Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Umbreon: 78-94 (38.6 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

(not that anyone runs neutral nat 0 sp def invest umbreon and modest zam)

252+ SpA Alakazam Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 58-70 (28.7 - 34.6%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

max spdef

cm then vs max sp def

+1 252+ SpA Alakazam Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 88-104 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

cm then vs 252 neutral nat no sp def

+1 252+ SpA Alakazam Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Umbreon: 116-138 (57.4 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

 

so unless you are running max spa modest zam vs 252 hp no spdef neutral nat umbreon then umbreon is going to win baring hax.

 

hp 70 and umbreon has no 4x weakness's so sig beam>all hp's vs umbreon.

 

 

and i still want to wait a bit to see what people come up with to deal with chansey.

[DoubleJ]

 

ok once and for all.

 

zam will not beat umbreon .all umbreon has to do is switch in and zam is done for.

0 Atk Umbreon Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 62-74 (47.6 - 56.9%) -- 87.1% chance to 2HKO

(this is not on switch and switch 1hko)

252+ SpA Alakazam Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Umbreon: 78-94 (38.6 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

(not that anyone runs neutral nat 0 sp def invest umbreon and modest zam)

252+ SpA Alakazam Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 58-70 (28.7 - 34.6%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

max spdef

cm then vs max sp def

+1 252+ SpA Alakazam Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 88-104 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

cm then vs 252 neutral nat no sp def

+1 252+ SpA Alakazam Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Umbreon: 116-138 (57.4 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

 

so unless you are running max spa modest zam vs 252 hp no spdef neutral nat umbreon then umbreon is going to win baring hax.

 

hp 70 and umbreon has no 4x weakness's so sig beam>all hp's vs umbreon.

 

 

and i still want to wait a bit to see what people come up with to deal with chansey.

 

 

I didn't say it did. If you read my post you would see that I clearly noted that Umbreon is a "good counter", but in this meta, it's the only safe switch in. If it's the only safe switch-in and Alakazam becomes popular, wouldn't there be another choke hold on usage?

 

 

EDIT: And we've had plenty of time to see Chansey in play and see how the meta develops. I don't think we wait any longer honestly. Discussion has been made and consensus says ban it. We've seen it dominate in practice. What more do you want?

Edited July 6, 2015 by DoubleJ

[Senile]

This is all nice and all, but why is this it's own thread instead of  a post in the UU suggestion thread like it should be? We changed the way Comp Alley works for a reason.

[DoubleJ]

This is all nice and all, but why is this it's own thread instead of  a post in the UU suggestion thread like it should be? We changed the way Comp Alley works for a reason.

 

Because the topic pertains to not only suggestions for UU tiering, but also toward community play-styles as well. 

[Gunthug]

When I saw the title I was hoping it was another cool thread like that one you made where we randomly discussed different UU pokes and creative sets. You should turn it into that, instead of this

[PandaJJ]

and i still want to wait a bit to see what people come up with to deal with chansey.

 

This might not be relevant yet (or ever,) but trick is being implemented for next update. Trick choice band totally ruins chansey. With that said, trick is pretty much a one-time-use move, and a gimmick. Chansey is beyond banworthy atm, and I doubt trick would actually change much. If you for some reason decide to keep the cancer around untill the next update, I'm sure we will see some trick choice band being used.

[Blue]

Locking this thread, those are some nice thoughts jj , you are welcome to post them here https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/54913-uu-discussion-chansey/ and https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/54049-uu-tier-discussion-request-thread/