Excelimpulse Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Okay so let me get this straight. We can run quick attack to stop reversal sweeps but we can't run protect on the majority of pokes to stop cb users.....right. And flava come on arguing that qa is an answer to reversal is pretty sad. That's like saying hail is an answer to dugtrio. It has a purpose for one move and that is it. Espeed could hit hard also and not just do 25% damage max if that like qa would. And Craig waiting a tourney or two I think is invalid. Most people won't even breed endure rev pokes like blaziken for the risk of being banned. That isn't a speculation either I already talked to people and now breeding has stopped. People don't want to breed with the risk of them being banned. So you can argue that reversal isn't a problem then because it's not used but lets face it. Without sandstorm and a strong priority attack that will not revolve around centralizing arcanine it needs to go. And if our economy wasn't well the way it is then we could breed it and test it without taking a hit. So now I went from not being able to breed for 2 months, to breeding and almost going broke with liquid cash, and then now not being able to breed because risks of bans. Running quick attack on fkygon is mediocre and just shows how desperate that is. With its massive move pool running a priority to stop 2-3 pokes because of one move is a nuisance. Fearow is another thing at least it got stab with it. Edited February 13, 2015 by Excelimpulse Link to comment
Goldeneyes Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Preemptive* Vaeldras, PandaJJ, RysPicz and 1 other 4 Link to comment
DrCraig Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 i am impressed about nobody has mentioned reversal gyarados yet -.- but no i still not think it should be banned especilly because of slowbro is the most used pokemon in the ou meta as we know it atm... I did <3 Link to comment
codylramey Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) It doesn't matter how premtive this is, it doesn't matter what can and can't stop reveral this that and the other thing. Unless something has changed in tiering policy reversal will not be banned unless you can prove its OP on all pokes that get it. Ill tell you right now tou can't so don't bother wasting ur time. Edited February 13, 2015 by codylramey Link to comment
JonazDK Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I did <3 i'm blind -.- Link to comment
TheBloo Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 That's like saying hail is an answer to dugtrio i mean it did win me a tournament JSTUD, Robofiend and flavajabari 3 Link to comment
Frag Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 It doesn't matter how premtive this is, it doesn't matter what can and can't stop reveral this that and the other thing. Unless something has changed in tiering policy reversal will not be banned unless you can prove its OP on all pokes that get it. Ill tell you right now tou can't so don't bother wasting ur time. reverse psychology, u are a genius bro, i hope it works. CatioN and flavajabari 2 Link to comment
Excelimpulse Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 How is endure reversal competitive? What skill involves? At least with the dragons you have a chance to predict what is coming and stop it. Endure rev you need spikes,sandstorm, or quick attack(smfh). 2 are none exhistint in ou now. And if argueing run quick attack on flygon is an option(your being a hypocrite). You can easily run protect on all your pokes for cb users. Is that a valid answer? No just like quick attack on flygon or any ou poke. So we're left with spikes. And that can be easily removed . So what stops endure rev ghost pokes? What if you use vlaziken with a salac berry to outrun gengar or leichi to kill clops. Using the ghost quick attack argument is all arguments I have used for not banning dnite and I got bashed. And now your using them with a little twist. smh proves to me that this Community is broken. Endure rev, charjzard drum is now competitive? unbelievable ......... If it's not competitive it's ban worthy. Link to comment
codylramey Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Well its a lot harder to remove the needed pokes from the other guys team, come in, set up proper boost to sweep, and, endure at the right time without being predicted, Than it is for dnite to come in and spam moves Also you predict what dnite is going to do dnite only has to switch out you predict endure and make the proper move then you just fucked up their entire set up. Also you run the rist of activating salac too early if you bring them in at the wrong time. Tldr dnite and reversal users are not comparable. Link to comment
Artemiseta Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 see comments above about charizard having a host of options to beat it down without resorting to priority moves if u running leichi on an endure reversal poke then anything and everything that is faster will beat it... not entirely sure how u used ghost quick attack argument. saying you did is still different as quick attack and espeed are 2 different things. espeed has twice the power of quick attack. quick attack is also used to pick off weaker poke that are using salic berries. not to mention there are at least 2 other espeed users in arcanine and linoone. if you choose to save the reversal pokemon for whatever reason it will not outspeed everything that it would before when u do revue reversal u have 1 health and literally any priority move can and will kill that pokemon. also its not like there are not gimmick sets out there which for the most part that is what endure reversal sets are gimmicky in nature Link to comment
Sacky Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 what about endure sharpedo..or just a suicidal sharpedo to counter the endure/sub reversal ones? =3 Link to comment
Excelimpulse Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Well its a lot harder to remove the needed pokes from the other guys team, come in, set up proper boost to sweep, and, endure at the right time without being predicted, Than it is for dnite to come in and spam moves Also you predict what dnite is going to do dnite only has to switch out you predict endure and make the proper move then you just fucked up their entire set up. Also you run the rist of activating salac too early if you bring them in at the wrong time. Tldr dnite and reversal users are not comparable. What "pokes" are used to stop it that your saying? And on top of that now you can't go after killing heracross, of blaxijen for the risk of endure rev. And then if you predict wrong you get punched in the face. and that argument where dnite all you have to do is let switch out is invalid. Once it does you have the mkmrntum and at that point in time there's a good chance dnite isn't coming in on something without getting hit hard. Which is the same argument you just used. being forced to use arcanine or linoin or whatever the hell it is is not competitive. Being forced to run quick attack is complete bs. And risking prediction you just used to stop the sakac boost or whatever is the same argument for dnite and the other two flammers. endure rev competitive....I rofl literally a safety net before you die and then can possibly end the game instead of dieing. being forced to centralize around arcanjne is okay????rofl Edited February 13, 2015 by Excelimpulse Link to comment
Vaeldras Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 People don't want to breed with the risk of them being banned. Actually, noone runs reversal because dragonite and gyarados can easily screw up any reversal user. Now that dragonite is banned doe. Link to comment
Excelimpulse Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 Actually, noone runs reversal because dragonite and gyarados can easily screw up any reversal user. Now that dragonite is banned doe. Blaziken endure rev blaze kick thunder punch.....gyardos also gonna die now. No one runs reversal because it WAS a gimmick set and now all the checks to it are almost gone. We're left with arcanine which is mediocre at best Has very little use. And quick attack. Sounds like competitive to me. Does that mean rattata can come play in ou now too?????rofl Link to comment
Artemiseta Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 arcanine will cannot sweep through 75%of the meta with relative ease so please keep that in mind. qa is on pokes other than ratatta be serious also slowbro still wrecks blaze. tpunch does maybe 30% without cb or att boost while still tanking the reversal and blazekick Link to comment
Qaztin Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Isnt Quick Attack/ExtreemeSpeed counter move to endure/reversal or something changed? Link to comment
Excelimpulse Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 arcanine will cannot sweep through 75%of the meta with relative ease so please keep that in mind. qa is on pokes other than ratatta be serious also slowbro still wrecks blaze. tpunch does maybe 30% without cb or att boost while still tanking the reversal and blazekick So your forced to run slowbro ? What about heracross? You could make an argument and run both if you wanted and one of them are getting through. And that's my point arc is a gimmick. It got crunch and that's it. If it got willo you could make an argument that it can go defensive. Arc is bl and always will be. Link to comment
Vaeldras Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Blaziken endure rev blaze kick thunder punch.....gyardos also gonna die now. No one runs reversal because it WAS a gimmick set and now all the checks to it are almost gone. We're left with arcanine which is mediocre at best Has very little use. And quick attack. Sounds like competitive to me. Does that mean rattata can come play in ou now too?????rofl That was my point, more or less. Thunderpunch isn't really a good move on a reversal set though, you're gonna need swords dance too. Link to comment
Excelimpulse Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 That was my point, more or less. Thunderpunch isn't really a good move on a reversal set though, you're gonna need swords dance too. Not if you rely on reversal to sweep and the other two as coverage Link to comment
fredrichnietze Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 i am impressed about nobody has mentioned reversal gyarados yet -.- but no i still not think it should be banned especilly because of slowbro is the most used pokemon in the ou meta as we know it atm... well sub + reversal + dragon dance leaving one move. so either waterfall, crunch, or EQ. waterfall=cant touch slowbro and many other bulky waters or venasaur. crunch=cant touch weezing and several other pokes can kill/force you out. EQ=cant touch gengar at all. or any other levitate/flying that resist fight like claydol. furthermore taunt/roar/ww/haze completely shut down gyara. Link to comment
Artemiseta Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 you are not forced to run slowbro however over half the people already do as it is our best defensive wall at the moment run both if u chpse but you will lose coverage and if there is any priority you are in trouble if I recall slowbro is not oko'd by non cb megahorn (could be wrong I don't want to run calcs tho) fred might help if he likes me in your court now lol arc is viable in this meta it can run defensive with morning sun. it can toxic it is bulky it has a great ability and can go cb with espeed. will burn pokes with flame and has a physical stab fire move now if it so chooses Link to comment
fredrichnietze Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 you are not forced to run slowbro however over half the people already do as it is our best defensive wall at the moment run both if u chpse but you will lose coverage and if there is any priority you are in trouble if I recall slowbro is not oko'd by non cb megahorn (could be wrong I don't want to run calcs tho) fred might help if he likes me in your court now lol arc is viable in this meta it can run defensive with morning sun. it can toxic it is bulky it has a great ability and can go cb with espeed. will burn pokes with flame and has a physical stab fire move now if it so chooses 252 Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 134-162 (66.3 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 150-176 (74.2 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery your absolutely right. Link to comment
Excelimpulse Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 even if slowvro does live from a 2hko it's not like your bringing it in on heravriss unless one of your pokes are dead. And even if so you then have to make sure no spikes are down. And then on top of that you have to be centralized around slowbro. Which remember isn't healthy like dnite....sanething other than on opposite ends of the field. Link to comment
Rigamorty Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) 252 Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 134-162 (66.3 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 150-176 (74.2 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery your absolutely right. something to note here is that it gets rekt if swarm which isnt really ignorable in the matter, since hera can just sub down to swarm range on slowbro easily. Swarm Heracross Megahorn vs. Slowbro: 224-264 (110.8 - 130.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO Swarm Heracross Megahorn vs. Slowbro: 204-240 (100.9 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO that's adamant and jolly Edited February 13, 2015 by Rigamorty Link to comment
fredrichnietze Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 even if slowvro does live from a 2hko it's not like your bringing it in on heravriss unless one of your pokes are dead. And even if so you then have to make sure no spikes are down. And then on top of that you have to be centralized around slowbro. Which remember isn't healthy like dnite....sanething other than on opposite ends of the field. 1-2 layers of spikes are ok. 3 is a bit risky. 252 Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 134-162 (66.3 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 2 layers of Spikes and Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 134-162 (66.3 - 80.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes your main problem is then what? hera faster so you can only get in one hit and it will not 1hko. you can para and make it easier to be taken down by team mates but if guts it is risky. 0 SpA Slowbro Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heracross: 104-126 (67 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 0 SpA Slowbro Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 108-128 (57.7 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO and yea swarm will kill off bro riga is right. Link to comment
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