Time Clause

[Gunthug]

Also, you don't even play this game. Arguing for something that will have zero consequence for yourself is really disrespectful.

it's not even true. In fact, to answer you or someone else's question, yes someone has intentionally time clauses someone just to be a douche - it actually happened to senile in an official. That he played in. In the game.

Senile gets on from time to time and flexes his comp skills in tournaments, but even if he didn't, who cares? It's not like he's being insensitive to those who would have to stay at tourneys longer - he's simply questioning whether that's even true. Edited March 17, 2015 by Gunthug

[Kiliminati]

I hope you are aware that timing out your opponent doesn't win you the game - the only motivation to do this is if you are both in a losing position, and a uguu. Have we even had this happen in an official yet?

Even though I don't log on to play much anymore, I still hear about this happening to people more often that you would think. In fact, I think this is a core issue that players who support abolishing the time clause want others to consider- how easy the rule is to abuse.

 

Granted, you are an absolute uguu if you choose to intentionally stall out your opponent to where you both lose, but it is certainly within the realm of possibility due to how the clause works at this point in time. 

Edited March 16, 2015 by Kiliminati

[Gunthug]

Even though I don't log on to play much anymore, I still hear about this happening to people more often that you would think. In fact, I think this is a core issue that players who support abolishing the time clause want others to consider- how easy the rule is to abuse.

Granted, you are an absolute uguu if you choose to intentionally stall out your opponent, but it is certainly within the realm of possibility due to how the clause works at this point in time.

Don't forget the possible team coordination aspect, too. If I'm in the semifinals and I play the winner of flava and zebra, flava could decide at any time in the match to play for time clause to give me a free pass to the finals. It's not a foolproof strategy - zebra could beat him before the 45 - but it's definitely a possibility since imo 45 minutes creeps up on you pretty fast

[Kiliminati]

Don't forget the possible team coordination aspect, too. If I'm in the semifinals and I play the winner of flava and zebra, flava could decide at any time in the match to play for time clause to give me a free pass to the finals. It's not a foolproof strategy - zebra could beat him before the 45 - but it's definitely a possibility since imo 45 minutes creeps up on you pretty fast

Very true. I'm starting to think that the current clause is actually hurting the competitive atmosphere of the game more than it's helping. But then again I have only been spectating from afar; it's been a while since I've participated in an official myself. Anyways, just my two cents on the issue.

[Gunthug]

I like think's idea, to test this out. Because if we try a tournament without time clause and it lasts 9 hours, I have absolutely no problem admitting I was wrong and that we shouldn't abolish time clause. But I'm just tired of seeing good players dqd for getting into a gridlock, and I'm really sick of players getting a free pass into a late round of a tournament

[OldKeith]

The point with reducing the afk timer is to stop people deliberately wasting time. You can DQ your opponent, technically, if you survive less than 40 turns. However, with the pressure of time people will have to rely on many switches to DQ someone on purpose. That can lead to mispredictions/mistakes that can break a core pokemon and make the match much faster.

[BurntZebra]

Just like to mention you can easily abuse time clause as of now, assuming time clause activates at 45 minutes, that is 2700 seconds, and the afk timeout button appears at 75 seconds. Assuming you wait for 65 seconds each turn, it would only take 42 turns to activate the time clause. And if you're suspected of trying to abuse time clause, you can either say you have bad internet/lagging or just say there is no rule against it because the time clause is such a flawed system.

[Gunthug]

The point with reducing the afk timer is to stop people deliberately wasting time. You can DQ your opponent, technically, if you survive less than 40 turns. However, with the pressure of time people will have to rely on many switches to DQ someone on purpose. That can lead to mispredictions/mistakes that can break a core pokemon and make the match much faster.

I think we can all agree that first and foremost, we need to be able to see the afk timer. This is a no brainer solution that likely would have to pre empt anything we come up with here, but that sadly, the devs probably don't consider important enough to give is within the next calendar year

[OldKeith]

4. Time LimitsTournament staff is responsible for running a timely event. To assist in this effort, POP has established guidelines for time limits during various portions of the event. Players may take notes at any time during their match but must begin each match with a blank sheet.

4.1. Pre-game Time Limit

Players will have 90 seconds to view their opponent’s team and select their Pokémon.

4.2. Mid-game Time Limit

Any mid-game effects, such as selecting a move or retreating Pokémon, are to take place within the 45 seconds allocated per turn.

4.3. Match Time Limits

Single-game matches will be 15 minutes. For best-of-three matches, each game in the match will be 15 minutes.

4.4. Untethered Time Limits

At tournaments where Battle Boxes are not locked, the time limits outlined in sections 4.1–4.3 will be enforced by judge ruling. Time limits may be extended or adjusted at the Tournament Organizer’s discretion but must be communicated prior to the beginning of the tournament and may never be shorter than the time limits outlined in 4.1–4.3. Ties may be broken manually by a judge in accordance with section 6.1. Increased pace of play may be enforced at the discretion of a judge.

 

This quote was taken from the official VGC 2015 rules. What do you know, they have rules regarding time, because staff is "responsible for running a timely event". And for those who do not know what VGC is, it is the format used in official events for Pokemon ORAS world tournaments/events.

Edited March 18, 2015 by OldKeith

[Shaniqualela]

 

4. Time LimitsTournament staff is responsible for running a timely event. To assist in this effort, POP has established guidelines for time limits during various portions of the event. Players may take notes at any time during their match but must begin each match with a blank sheet.

4.1. Pre-game Time Limit

Players will have 90 seconds to view their opponent’s team and select their Pokémon.

4.2. Mid-game Time Limit

Any mid-game effects, such as selecting a move or retreating Pokémon, are to take place within the 45 seconds allocated per turn.

4.3. Match Time Limits

Single-game matches will be 15 minutes. For best-of-three matches, each game in the match will be 15 minutes.

4.4. Untethered Time Limits

At tournaments where Battle Boxes are not locked, the time limits outlined in sections 4.1–4.3 will be enforced by judge ruling. Time limits may be extended or adjusted at the Tournament Organizer’s discretion but must be communicated prior to the beginning of the tournament and may never be shorter than the time limits outlined in 4.1–4.3. Ties may be broken manually by a judge in accordance with section 6.1. Increased pace of play may be enforced at the discretion of a judge.

 

This quote was taken from the official VGC 2015 rules. What do you know, they have rules regarding time, because staff is "responsible for running a timely event". And for those who do not know what VGC is, it is the format used in official events for Pokemon ORAS world tournaments/events.

 

most vgc matches are under 15 turns so that doesnt apply here.

[OldKeith]

most vgc matches are under 15 turns so that doesnt apply here.

 

 

That is not relevant, they can be longer, they can be shorter than they are here. The point is the duration of the event, regardless of the predicted length of the battles. stall is a viable playstyle in vgc, too, I have seen some long matches.

[ThinkNice]

That is not relevant, they can be longer, they can be shorter than they are here. The point is the duration of the event, regardless of the predicted length of the battles. stall is a viable playstyle in vgc, too, I have seen some long matches.

You can't draw a comparison between doubles and singles like, ever. So saying 'VGC has Time Clause so we should have it too' is not viable, because they are both completely different from each other. It's however sensible to say that hosts are required to run timely events, how this should be accomplished is something we are discussing in this thread.

[PandaJJ]

 

4. Time LimitsTournament staff is responsible for running a timely event. To assist in this effort, POP has established guidelines for time limits during various portions of the event. Players may take notes at any time during their match but must begin each match with a blank sheet.

4.1. Pre-game Time Limit

Players will have 90 seconds to view their opponent’s team and select their Pokémon.

4.2. Mid-game Time Limit

Any mid-game effects, such as selecting a move or retreating Pokémon, are to take place within the 45 seconds allocated per turn.

4.3. Match Time Limits

Single-game matches will be 15 minutes. For best-of-three matches, each game in the match will be 15 minutes.

4.4. Untethered Time Limits

At tournaments where Battle Boxes are not locked, the time limits outlined in sections 4.1–4.3 will be enforced by judge ruling. Time limits may be extended or adjusted at the Tournament Organizer’s discretion but must be communicated prior to the beginning of the tournament and may never be shorter than the time limits outlined in 4.1–4.3. Ties may be broken manually by a judge in accordance with section 6.1. Increased pace of play may be enforced at the discretion of a judge.

 

This quote was taken from the official VGC 2015 rules. What do you know, they have rules regarding time, because staff is "responsible for running a timely event". And for those who do not know what VGC is, it is the format used in official events for Pokemon ORAS world tournaments/events.

 

 

I was thinking about the same. Unfortunately, there is nothing even remotely similar between VGC and our metagame.

 

If a VGC match does not finish on time, the winner will be decided by who has the most pokemon left. If it's tied, it will be decided by the hp remaining on the pokemon left. If we introduce this rule to our game, stall will probably immediatelly become the superior playstyle, because it's all about not letting your pokemon go down. The key difference to why this is not the case in VGC is because it's doubles - stalling in doubles is hard to pull off, especially thanks to the ridiculous megas and other powerhouses in 6th gen.

 

Another thing worth noting is that the official pokemon metagame is by no means as well constructed as smogons metagames, which pokemmo is based on. While smogon insists on making changes to improve the competetiveness of the metagame, the official pokemon people insists on pokemon already being balanced, and they (almost) only ban the most powerful legendaries (without any testing or anything). This is the reason why smogon is the biggest pokemon community out there, and why a lot of pokemon fans are not even familiar with VGC.

[DoubleJ]

My request would be to extend time clause to 60 minutes and strictly enforce it. No, "oh man they could win in like 5-10 moves, let's extend it". 

[BurntZebra]

My request would be to extend time clause to 60 minutes and strictly enforce it. No, "oh man they could win in like 5-10 moves, let's extend it". 

Oh so I just need to survive 60 turns to time clause someone. Nice, gg scouters 

[KingBowser]

I rather not have a system that can be abused by my opponent.

[Robofiend]

We should just sack the whole idea - if we gave players 15 extra minutes they'd still try to stall out opponents and abuse the system. We've seen many times that time clause can be used by teams to eliminate tough competition by stuffing the bracket with obedient noobs who sacrifice their own chance of success to help teammates We've also seen that enforcement of the policy is highly subjective and inconsistent, which is detrimental to a positive and truly competitive system for running tournaments.

[Linken]

why not implementing a showdown like system where a staller gets less time for actions starting from let's say 2 minutes and going down to 10 seconds or so?

[ThinkNice]

why not implementing a showdown like system where a staller gets less time for actions starting from let's say 2 minutes and going down to 10 seconds or so?

stress on the server is too high I believe

[xSparkie]

Due to the implementation of the new battle timer, this thread is no longer relevant so I'll be moving it to the Competitive Archive.