[Banned to BL2] Fearow

[DrCraig]

With this logic, I could say all kind of stupid stuff.

 

Example: Breloom can counter Exeggutor with Hidden Power Bug or Swellow can counter Rhydon with Hidden Power Grass.

 

Every pokemon can get hidden power, there is nothing new there. I don't consider it a valid argument on a physical attacker with mediocre spatk.

No gb

HP Ground Fearow in the old meta was to kill Steelix. Maybe Omastar? Omastar really wasn't that common, but look. Steelix was super common back when Fearow was popular so HP Ground was on every single Fearow.

 

Choice Band Fearow Hidden Power Ground vs. Steelix: 52-62 (28.5 - 34%) -- 98.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

It was to hit Fearow's main counter, and it didn't even kill it. It's not even close. HP ground would be viable and should be considered as an alternative for Pursuit or Steel Wing because it was, and is useful for hurting one of Fearow's main counters, Aggron. I really don't think it should be seen as 'lol special move on fearow, ya right.'

Edited August 14, 2015 by DrCraig

[KaynineXL]

With this logic, I could say all kind of stupid stuff.

 

Example: Breloom can counter Exeggutor with Hidden Power Bug or Swellow can counter Rhydon with Hidden Power Grass.

 

Every pokemon can get hidden power, there is nothing new there. I don't consider it a valid argument on a physical attacker with mediocre spatk.

What....?

 

For starters Breloom is a different sort of Pokemon to Swellow and Fearow. Lots of things can deal with Breloom and it needs a certain moveset(as far as I know, I don't UU so w/e) like sub, fp, spore, something else.

Why get HP bug for Exeggutor when other things stop it anyway? It's pointless..

 

On to Swellow, Rhydon has been in UU for how long? A week or two? Who's to say someone isn't already thinking of it? Also are there other things that switch onto Swellow easily(once again, don't UU) because that plays a big part in to it.

 

In NU, if Aggron has like 30%+ usage because of Fearow, HP ground would be a great idea.

 

'stupid stuff' pfft...

Edited August 14, 2015 by KaynineXL

[gbwead]

Exact same logic as Tyranitar or Salamence running HP Grass to topple Swampert, or Metagross to use HP Fire to break Forretress. 

Not really, Tyranatar got 95 base spatk without a malus nature necessarily, Salamence got 110 base spatk without a malus nature necessarily and Metagross got 95 spatk without a malus nature necessarily. Even though those pokemons are/were OU, 95 spatk or 110 spatk in undeniably not equivalent to 61 spatk with a malus nature. Those pokemons are also not necessarily holding a choice band which is a major difference.

 

I have nothing against "thinking outside the box", but using this fishy outside the box thinking to justify that a pokemon should be banned that is problematic for me.

 

 

It was to hit Fearow's main counter, and it didn't even kill it. It's not even close. HP ground would be viable and should be considered as an alternative for Pursuit or Steel Wing because it was, and is useful for hurting one of Fearow's main counters, Aggron. I really don't think it should be seen as 'lol special move on fearow, ya right.'

I don't know why you keep bringing up the old meta Craig XD The main difference between HP now in opposition to HP then is that right now when you do HP it only works on Aggron!!!!!!! It is completly useless against the rest of the meta.

Back then HP being physical could at least do decent damage on anything.

 

 

In NU, if Aggron has like 30%+ usage because of Fearow, HP ground would be a great idea.

 

'stupid stuff' pfft...

Sorry, I didn't mean any offense by that :/

 

I just think saying that "Aggron's viability in the tier is a direct consequence of Fearow getting move down" is unfair.

• There is a lot of think that got move down. Like I said before, Aggron does incredibly well against Xatu, Crobat, Misdreavus and Haunter (if no super effective hp).
• With Absol being moved up, this gives a lot of room to calm minders and Aggron could be really useful to block those pokemons. Grumpig, Ninetales, Girafarig (if no EQ), Kadabra and Mr. Mime

I would just like people to stop saying Fearow is banworthy because he forces us to play unviable pokemons to counter him. Aggron is not unviable, he actually could do great in this meta even if Fearow wasn't around.

Edited August 14, 2015 by lamerb

[DrCraig]

I don't know why you keep bringing up the old meta Craig XD The main difference between HP now in opposition to HP then is that right now when you do HP it only works on Aggron!!!!!!! It is completly useless against the rest of the meta.

Back then HP being physical could at least do decent damage on anything.

You're just not getting it

Nobody ran HP so it could be a 70BP coverage move, it was FOR THE STEELS AND FOR THE ROCK.

HP ON FEAROW NOW WOULD BE ON THE FEAROW FOR THE ROCK/STEEL.

Im drawing a parallel with the previous meta and you clearly cannot see that.

 

There is no reason that HP should just be scoffed at.

 

 

Not really, Tyranatar got 95 base spatk without a malus nature necessarily, Salamence got 110 base spatk without a malus nature necessarily and Metagross got 95 spatk without a malus nature necessarily. Even though those pokemons are/were OU, 95 spatk or 110 spatk in undeniably not equivalent to 61 spatk with a malus nature. Those pokemons are also not necessarily holding a choice band which is a major difference.

 

I have nothing against "thinking outside the box", but using this fishy outside the box thinking to justify that a pokemon should be banned that is problematic for me.

No no no no no you are missing the point of JJ's post. You're nit picking specifics and ignoring the base of his argument.

Edited August 15, 2015 by DrCraig

[KaynineXL]

Not really, Tyranatar got 95 base spatk without a malus nature necessarily, Salamence got 110 base spatk without a malus nature necessarily and Metagross got 95 spatk without a malus nature necessarily. Even though those pokemons are/were OU, 95 spatk or 110 spatk in undeniably not equivalent to 61 spatk with a malus nature. Those pokemons are also not necessarily holding a choice band which is a major difference.

 

I have nothing against "thinking outside the box", but using this fishy outside the box thinking to justify that a pokemon should be banned that is problematic for me.

 

 

I don't know why you keep bringing up the old meta Craig XD The main difference between HP now in opposition to HP then is that right now when you do HP it only works on Aggron!!!!!!! It is completly useless against the rest of the meta.

Back then HP being physical could at least do decent damage on anything.

 

 

Sorry, I didn't mean any offense by that :/

 

I just think saying that "Aggron's viability in the tier is a direct consequence of Fearow getting move down" is unfair.

• There is a lot of think that got move down. Like I said before, Aggron does incredibly well against Xatu, Crobat, Misdreavus and Haunter (if no super effective hp).
• With Absol being moved up, this gives a lot of room to calm minders and Aggron could be really useful to block those pokemons. Grumpig, Ninetales, Girafarig (if no EQ), Kadabra and Mr. Mime

I would just like people to stop saying Fearow is banworthy because he forces us to play unviable pokemons to counter him. Aggron is not unviable, he actually could do great in this meta even if Fearow wasn't around.

Aggrons viability isn't a direct consequence of Fearow getting moved down through...?

Of course it is. I'm not saying Aggron wasn't viable before Fearow, because heck it wasn't bad at all. It's going to shoot up on the usage ladder because of Fearow though which would make HP ground useful. Sure those pokes you pointed out would higher him up also... But are you seriously telling me Fearow is not going to make the biggest impact on highering the usage rate of him?

 

We're not saying Fearow is banworthy because it forces us to play with unviable pokes.. We're saying he has almost no counters, and Aggron as a great example gets wrecked by HP ground.

[gbwead]

You're just not getting it

Nobody ran HP so it could be a 70BP coverage move, it was FOR THE STEELS AND FOR THE ROCK.

HP ON FEAROW NOW WOULD BE ON THE FEAROW FOR THE ROCK/STEEL.

Im drawing a parallel with the previous meta and you clearly cannot see that.

 

There is no reason that HP should just be scoffed at.

I did not understand a single word of that. Sry :/

 

No no no no no you are missing the point of JJ's post. You're nit picking specifics and ignoring the base of his argument.

However, I understand what JJ was talking about. I just don't believe Salamence/Tyrnatar/Metagross are in the same situation as Fearow. 

 

Edit:

But are you seriously telling me Fearow is not going to make the biggest impact on highering the usage rate of him?

No worries, I am not saying that XD I do agree with you that Fearow is the main reason to play Aggron, but it is not the ONLY reason. 

 

Edit2:

We're not saying Fearow is banworthy because it forces us to play with unviable pokes.. We're saying he has almost no counters, and Aggron as a great example gets wrecked by HP ground.

 

Well there has been a really good amount of counters that were mentionned in this thread already. Some people kept using the same argument that those counters were unviable and I don't believe that to be the case.

 

As for HP ground, it is good for Aggron and only Aggron. I hope we can agree on this.

Edited August 15, 2015 by lamerb

[KaynineXL]

I did not understand a single word of that. Sry :/

 

However, I understand what JJ was talking about. I just don't believe Salamence/Tyrnatar/Metagross are in the same situation as Fearow. 

I'l see if I can explain Craigs point.

 

When people used to run HP Ground on Fearow(when it was physical) it was to hit Steelix for approx 25%

Now you can run HP Ground on Fearow to hit Aggron for approx 70%(while in Sp atk)

 

So what he's trying to say, why is it that the Sp Atk version is so ridiculous.

You know what I mean? 

Edited August 15, 2015 by KaynineXL

[DrCraig]

I did not understand a single word of that. Sry :/

HP Ground was not on Fearow because 'well if like they dont go to the counter, you can do like 20% to something else.' That is not how it works. HP Ground would be SPECIFIC for Fearow's counters. HP Ground WAS specific for Fearows counters. It has NO USE otherwise. This is "basically" the SAME SITUATION and there is NO REASON hp ground should be scoffed at.

 

However, I understand what JJ was talking about. I just don't believe Salamence/Tyrnatar/Metagross are in the same situation as Fearow. 

Still missing the point. Read it again. Then think about it, and read it a third time.

[gbwead]

I'l see if I can explain Craigs point.

 

When people used to run HP Ground on Fearow(when it was physical) it was to hit Steelix for approx 25%

Now you can run HP Ground on Fearow to hit Aggron for approx 70%(while in Sp atk)

 

So what he's trying to say, why is it that the Sp Atk version is so ridicules.

 

You know what I mean? 

OH! I get it now. I thought I had already explained why it was riddicules. 

 

I will repost my explanation in case it has been missed:

 

Hidden Power on Fearow is weak, especially with jolly nature. It is extremely situational and completly worthless agaisnt the rest of the tier.

 

In OU, if magneton is facing a Ludicolo with 10% hit points, he doesn't have to do thunderbolt to kill ludicolo: he can simply use Hidden Power and this way he could potentially prevent Jolteon from swiching in with volt absorb. If Fearow is against a 10% hit points Aggron, he could end up making a fatal mistake. With no spatk, by using hidden power, he also makes himself vulnerable agaisnt the rest fo the tier.

 

Edit:

 

 

Still missing the point. Read it again. Then think about it, and read it a third time.

 

Cmon Craig, I am not an idiot. I am pretty sure I understood what he was saying. Am I allowed to understand and disagree at the same time?

Edited August 15, 2015 by lamerb

[KaynineXL]

OH! I get it now. I thought I had already explained why it was riddicules. 

 

I will repost my explanation in case it has been missed:

Wow.

 

I literally left you a reply for that and you didn't acknowledge it?

 

1. Jolly doesn't matter, it 2hkos with or without -sp atk.
2. How is HP Ground weak when its 2hko the most viable counter to Fearow?
3. Once he used HP Ground, yes he makes himself vulnerable, but at the same time... that Aggron is on 30% and can no longer switch on Fearow. So what are you going to do the second time round?

That doesn't sound ridiculous to me.

Edited August 15, 2015 by KaynineXL

[DrCraig]

Cmon Craig, I am not an idiot. I am pretty sure I understood what he was saying. Am I allowed to understand and disagree at the same time?

HP Fire Metagross etc., have pretty much no use out side of destroying their main counters. Just because they have a decent stat in satk, doesn't magically make the HP better. HP isn't going to hurt another pokemon significantly. The HP is counter SPECIFIC, just like how hp ground on Fearow is threat specific.

 

Edit: hit f5

Edited August 15, 2015 by DrCraig

[gbwead]

Wow.

I literally left you a reply for that and you didn't acknowledge it?

I actually reposted more for Craig than you XD

 

That doesn't sound ridiculous to me.

It is kinda of ridiculous to think you will always do the right move at the right time. 

This goes both ways. What if you do HP ground and I don't switch on Aggron? You will do litteraly no dmg and be stuck on that "dead move" for the time being.  

When a pokemon with a decent spatk stat mispredicts by doing HP on the wrong pokemon, he will at least do some damage. Fearow will do litteraly none. 

 

Lets say I am scared of Fearow using Drill Peck so I switch on Ampharos:

0- SpA Fearow Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ampharos: 26-32 (13.1 - 16.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever

 

Lets say I am scared of Metagross using Thunder Punch so I switch on Venusaur:

0- SpA Metagross Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Venusaur: 34-40 (18.1 - 21.3%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Metagross would actually do slightly more damage, but unlike Fearow

• he won't necessarily be holding a CB,
• he won't necessarily have a malus nature
• and he can afford investing spatk evs because he got a godly base atk stat (135 vs 90) anyways.

[DrCraig]

 

I actually reposted more for Craig than you XD

 

It is kinda of ridiculous to think you will always do the right move at the right time. 

This goes both ways. What if you do HP ground and I don't switch on Aggron? You will do litteraly no dmg and be stuck on that "dead move" for the time being.  

When a pokemon with a decent spatk stat mispredicts by doing HP on the wrong pokemon, he will at least do some damage. Fearow will do litteraly none. 

 

Lets say I am scared of Fearow using Drill Peck so I switch on Ampharos:

0- SpA Fearow Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ampharos: 26-32 (13.1 - 16.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever

 

Lets say I am scared of Metagross using Thunder Punch so I switch on Venusaur:

0- SpA Metagross Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Venusaur: 34-40 (18.1 - 21.3%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Metagross would actually do slightly more damage, but unlike Fearow

• he won't necessarily be holding a CB,
• he won't necessarily have a malus nature
• and he can afford investing spatk evs because he got a godly base atk stat (135 vs 90) anyways.

 

GB WHY WOULD U LIE TO ME LIKE THAT

YOURE STILL NOT UNDERSTANDING

 

Hiddenpower on Fearow is specific. It is specifically for Aggron. Only for Aggron. Nothing else, but Aggron. Why? Because Aggron is the best counter. HP Ground is specifically meant to hit the best counter. IT JUST MAKES SENSE.

 

Hiddenpower on Metagross, FOR EXAMPLE, is specific also. It is only meant to hit Forretress and Skarmory in this example. It is specific for its checks/counters(im not debating this, go along with the fuckin example). It is irrelevant what the damage is to other pokemon because who the fuck cares. That's not what it's meant to hit. It is meant to hit these specific pokemon.

 

We are to assume that every prediction will be the correct prediction because if we didn't that would be nonsensical and all arguments would be brittle. Yes, you can get locked into a move after, but that is also not the point. Hidden Power, in this case, is a specific move that is only meant to hit the best counter for this pokemon and the damage output otherwise is completely irrelevant because that is not what hidden power is for.

[gbwead]

Hiddenpower on Metagross, FOR EXAMPLE, is specific also. It is only meant to hit Forretress and Skarmory in this example. It is specific for its checks/counters(im not debating this, go along with the fuckin example). It is irrelevant what the damage is to other pokemon because who the fuck cares. That's not what it's meant to hit. It is meant to hit these specific pokemon.

It is extremely relevant, because you hold a choice band...

[DrCraig]

It is extremely relevant, because you hold a choice band...

 

No because as part of discussion, you are to assume every prediction will be the correct prediction AS I SAID HERE AND YOU DIDNT READ

We are to assume that every prediction will be the correct prediction because if we didn't that would be nonsensical and all arguments would be brittle. Yes, you can get locked into a move after, but that is also not the point. Hidden Power, in this case, is a specific move that is only meant to hit the best counter for this pokemon and the damage output otherwise is completely irrelevant because that is not what hidden power is for.

The only problem regarding choice band would be that fact that you are locked afterwards

 

With the logic that we assume not every prediction is correct, we might as well move down Salamence because everybody using a Salamence will be by definition bad at predicting. This would also entail assuming not every pokemon is 6x31 IVs. WE MUST ASSUME THESE THINGS.

 

Cant believe Im still fucking talking about this

 

edit: im done editing.

Edited August 15, 2015 by DrCraig

[Gunthug]

GB WHY WOULD U LIE TO ME LIKE THAT

YOURE STILL NOT UNDERSTANDING

 

Hiddenpower on Fearow is specific. It is specifically for Aggron. Only for Aggron. Nothing else, but Aggron. Why? Because Aggron is the best counter. HP Ground is specifically meant to hit the best counter. IT JUST MAKES SENSE.

 

Hiddenpower on Metagross, FOR EXAMPLE, is specific also. It is only meant to hit Forretress and Skarmory in this example. It is specific for its checks/counters(im not debating this, go along with the fuckin example). It is irrelevant what the damage is to other pokemon because who the fuck cares. That's not what it's meant to hit. It is meant to hit these specific pokemon.

 

We are to assume that every prediction will be the correct prediction because if we didn't that would be nonsensical and all arguments would be brittle. Yes, you can get locked into a move after, but that is also not the point. Hidden Power, in this case, is a specific move that is only meant to hit the best counter for this pokemon and the damage output otherwise is completely irrelevant because that is not what hidden power is for.

I disagree here, respectfully. In a tier like NU, where one wrong move can leave you as set up bait, I think locking yourself into a move like HP ground on a -sp att fearow is a very risky endeavor. In that regard, I definitely don't think it's irrelevant what the damage is to other pokemon - in the physical HP meta, a fearow locked into HP ground could usually at least break subs of potential set up sweepers. Also, let's consider the fact that aggron is currently used on 11% of teams. Will this go up? Sure, absolutely, with fearow and others around. But even if it rises astronomically, to something like 30% - 70% of the time, youve got a wasted moveslot on fearow.

 

I raise these points not to cast doubt on the viability of HP ground, but simply to show that it's a risky move that comes with a huge reward if you can pull it off - putting down one of the only legitimate counters for fearow in the tier (on paper). However, other fearow answers have been mentioned (relicanth, solrock, lunatone) and it remains to be seen how fearow will deal with those. At some point, it's gonna run into 4mss

 

So lets cool it on the rhetoric? No need to beat the HP ground point into the ground - LF a chance to test out the meta and go from there

Edited August 15, 2015 by Gunthug

[KaynineXL]

 

I actually reposted more for Craig than you XD

 

It is kinda of ridiculous to think you will always do the right move at the right time. 

This goes both ways. What if you do HP ground and I don't switch on Aggron? You will do litteraly no dmg and be stuck on that "dead move" for the time being.  

When a pokemon with a decent spatk stat mispredicts by doing HP on the wrong pokemon, he will at least do some damage. Fearow will do litteraly none. 

 

Lets say I am scared of Fearow using Drill Peck so I switch on Ampharos:

0- SpA Fearow Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ampharos: 26-32 (13.1 - 16.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever

 

Lets say I am scared of Metagross using Thunder Punch so I switch on Venusaur:

0- SpA Metagross Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Venusaur: 34-40 (18.1 - 21.3%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Metagross would actually do slightly more damage, but unlike Fearow

• he won't necessarily be holding a CB,
• he won't necessarily have a malus nature
• and he can afford investing spatk evs because he got a godly base atk stat (135 vs 90) anyways.

 

Yes, If Fearow used Hidden power ground and you didn't go Aggron it would be a waste.

just as wasteful as using DE or Drill Peck on Aggron.

 

????

 

Not only this, but you're then stuck on an Aggron that will punish you SOO HARD.

Aggron is gonna sub and then you've got a huge threat.. Like keith said. Unforgiving.

 

Haunter or Aggron are dead weight is just nonsense, when both are unforgiving behind a substitute.

Edited August 15, 2015 by KaynineXL

[KaynineXL]

What are the viable options that will setup on you though?

 

Apart from Aggron under a sub. My point.

[Kizhaz]

I think the fact that it will be locked into such a terrible move, allowing your opponent to switch into litteraly anything in the tier at the cost of some health to their aggron. It is easily abusable for a move that may not even be clicked. But in saying this, whos to say you need a cb, silk scarf is still a viable option imo in which case hp ground would actually be useful

[DrCraig]

What are the viable options that will setup on you though?

 

Apart from Aggron under a sub. My point.

Not much that can take a D-edge/DrillPeck/SteelWing.

[LionKIng]

how can you base your arguments on IF every prediction is the right one. You can't make the right predictions all the time because in this game you don't even have a team preview, so spamming hp ground for the hope of aggron is just nonsens. There isnt something like perfect predictions becuase this game is unprevisable. Also NU is the most diverse tier in the game right now, theres plenty of bulky stuff that makes fearow unable to sweep. Like i said time and time before the game isnt a 1 vs 1 match but a 6vs6 and you can't decide the winner out of IF everyone predicts right cuz it won't happen. 

 

I feel like this discusion is going nowhere because everyone pretty much agreed that fearow shouldnt be banned before testing. So arguing about hp ground to kill only fearow is just plain useless atm. We got the point, it 2 hits aggron good. (except craig that doesnt want to test ban it lel)

 

and for kaynine a bunch of stuff can set up on hp ground, ghosts for exemple, gligar, zangoose, and all the fast stuff in the tier that can sword dance, even a cradilly could set up on a fearow with hp ground.

Edited August 15, 2015 by LionKIng

[KaynineXL]

how can you base your arguments on IF every prediction is the right one. You can't make the right predictions all the time because in this game you don't even have a team preview, so spamming hp ground for the hope of aggron is just nonsens. There isnt something like perfect predictions becuase this game is unprevisable. Also NU is the most diverse tier in the game right now, theres plenty of bulky stuff that makes fearow unable to sweep. Like i said time and time before the game isnt a 1 vs 1 match but a 6vs6 and you can't decide the winner out of IF everyone predicts right cuz it won't happen. 

 

I feel like this discusion is going nowhere because everyone pretty much agreed that fearow shouldnt be banned before testing. So arguing about hp ground to kill only fearow is just plain useless atm. We got the point, it 2 hits aggron good. (except craig that doesnt want to test ban it lel)

 

and for kaynine a bunch of stuff can set up on hp ground, ghosts for exemple, gligar, zangoose, and all the fast stuff in the tier that can sword dance, even a cradilly could set up on a fearow with hp ground.

 

You don't need to predict Aggron coming in though. You drill peck, aggron comes in. Next time you get a chance to hit with Fearow you hp ground because you know Aggron is coming.

 

Now you can either go for the kill on Aggron, or just switch out to make sure you don't get setup on.

 

I think Fearow is too strong, I do think we should test it first. We're actually arguing over it because Gbwead says it's ridiculous. I'v already stated why it isn't and nobody replies to tell me how I'm wrong. 

 

If you run HP Ground, you need to remove Quick Attack or Pursuit, both situational. If the person has a Aggron then Fearow is pretty useless since it can't damage it in which case HP Ground would be very good.

Edited August 15, 2015 by KaynineXL

[LionKIng]

You don't need to predict Aggron coming in though. You drill peck, aggron comes in. Next time you get a chance to hit with Fearow you hp ground because you know Aggron is coming.

 

Now you can either go for the kill on aggron, or just switch out to make sure you don't get setup on.

 

I think Fearow is too strong, I do think we should test it first. We're actually arguing over it because Gbwead says it's ridiculous. I'v already stated why it isn't and nobody replies to tell me how I'm wrong. 

but puttin fearow in play is extremely hard, so having to put him in play twice to MAYBEE hit agron with hp ground the second time around , the game might already be finished by then. Ive played fearow alot and in a tier where offense is #1, putting fearow in play even as a revenge killer is hard because alot of sweepers are faster then fearow and if you are using hp ground you are lacking  2 of the following : quick attack, pursuit or steel wing, lacking coverage on most of its counters or cheks.

[gbwead]

We're actually arguing over it because Gbwead says it's ridiculous. 

I don't think it is ridiculous to use hp ground to counter Aggron.

However, I think it is ridiculous to think using HP ground or HP grass is gonna solve your problem. By using HP, Fearow becomes a set bait which is a new problem.

 

Let's not forget that this discussion is about whether or not Fearow is banworthy or will be banworthy after some testing. Fixing a problem by creating another does not make Fearow more viable and does not make him suddenly more OP. 

[KaynineXL]

but puttin fearow in play is extremely hard, so having to put him in play twice to MAYBEE hit agron with hp ground the second time around , the game might already be finished by then. Ive played fearow alot and in a tier where offense is #1, putting fearow in play even as a revenge killer is hard because alot of sweepers are faster then fearow and if you are using hp ground you are lacking  2 of the following : quick attack, pursuit or steel wing, lacking coverage on most of its counters or cheks.

You can play Fearow if you're smart. You need to play it when you get the opportunity. For example if you're Ninetales vs a Victreebell, you know they are going to switch to a Sp Wall, then you can switch to Fearow for free here. They could bring in something like Grumpig or Mantine and there you go... Free switch. Sure they could bring Ampharos but you get my point. You can use this in many ways as long as it's obvious they will switch.

 

I don't think it is ridiculous to use hp ground to counter Aggron.

However, I think it is ridiculous to think using HP ground or HP grass is gonna solve your problem. By using HP, Fearow becomes a set bait which is a new problem.

 

Let's not forget that this discussion is about whether or not Fearow is banworthy or will be banworthy after some testing. Fixing a problem by creating another does not make Fearow more viable and does not make him suddenly more OP. 

No Fearow doesn't become setup bait if you use it. You're just baiting(outplaying) yourself. If Aggron comes in on HP ground and you hit 70% from him, switch... Chances are the person will switch and setup. That's just you being greedy and playing bad.

 

If you DE/Drill Peck on Aggron then you have just baited yourself on Aggron setting up.

 

What's the difference?

Edited August 15, 2015 by KaynineXL