Robofiend

Arcanine also has useful 90/80/80 defenses, reliable recovery and intimidate. What I'm saying is that Amparos can be used as a (pseudo) wall, but it's not scary because it walls. It's scary because Tbolt hits lots of things hard, the Agil set can run wild after the enemy gets worn down a bit, and because it can wall. Arcanine, by contrast, can wall and support all day but it can't really break other walls that try and switch in against it.

RU srs? [spoiler] kek [spoiler] the only problem i see is that then you have to worry about managing a whole other tier. It'd be best to wait til this shit is automated. [/spoiler] [/spoiler]

Well you can always run Return/Body Slam for the Calm Minders and Theif/Shadow Ball to hit Ghosts/Psychics. Not perfect, but it pairs well with other utility pokes like Mantine (who prevents Poliwrath, the Nidos and most Calm Minders from getting too cocky) and definitely appreciates the Heal Bell and Wish support that Lickitung provides. I'm a little wary of running Protect on anything in NU, however, just because of how rare Choice Banders are and how many free switches it can give away. It can also run Disable or Screech, two seemingly bad options that make that can prevent a full CM set up or make Body Slam all the more threatening. It's not perfect, but it at least looks usable on paper, especially with Flareon having so many hard to cover weaknesses.

*resists as in nothing is SE against it- something that no other Special wall in the tier (except Ampharos and I guess Sableye but it's pretty bad) can claim to have

I dunno, we have stuff like Lickitung that resists pretty much everything and can be a cleric, although almost no one uses it because of its lack of offense and the cost of buying all of those BP moves.

Well technically... *explains textbook strawman, I'm sure you already know*. I'm not sure what else to say other than that summation =/= misrepresentation. Cody did give a lenghthy (yet maybe unsatisfactory) reply to the quoted Noad post, so it's a bit of a strawman on your part, with regards to this meta-argument, to argue as if he did just reply with a one liner. #gotem. The post with bullet points seemed to be a summation of all arguments made, and I read several posts in this thread saying something to the effect of "it's not the staff's job to moderate the economy." Anyway I think neither of us care that much about this so... yeah. I'd be surprised if this suggestion in particular is implemented, but it does point out a problem where most of the information about this game lives on the forums and that doesn't do anything for non-English speaking players. Even if a player somehow found out about the forums from another player, non-English speakers have no way of finding out the value of anything without either another player helping them or learning English.

That's why you run Endure/Salac

LF update Lately I've been seeing Haunter do a lot of damage, it's probably S Rank material with those stabs, Shadow Ball hax, near perfect coverage and almost limitless movepool. I'm questioning how Flareon got to A+ rank - while it's good it just doesn't get used very much or threaten many pokes. Being slow and having bad defense is a bane in a game where EQ is super effective against pretty much everything except Blastoise. Sableye doesn't get enough love for simultaneously providing some support against Xatu/Grumpig with Faint Attack, stopping Normal spam, having insta heal, and access to one-off moves like Psych Up. Granted, it'd be a lot better if Amph/Blast weren't so common. Gorebyss deserves some A/A+ love as well - once you set up that late game Rain Dance everything but Mantine (who also should get a shout out if it weren't for Ampharos) is going to be scared. Solid defs as well for a strong sweeper. I also feel like Golduck deserves some love, again it's late game abilities are scary and it hits reasonably hard with STAB Surf. The only fear is taking Toxic on the switch in from Blastoise. Already mentioned Pinsir once, it's probably more A rank than S since Blastoise is around now, but its physical bulk is pretty mighty (enough to live a non-CB Scyther Aerial Ace) and fast Quake with Access to QA makes it a pretty balanced poke in terms of performance against offense and defense. Roselia is another missing link here: while it sometimes struggles with Blast/Amph it can also abuse more stall-oriented variants by absorbing Toxic (or even Twave if you run NC) and being one of the tier's only Spikers. While it looks pretty flimsy it can survive stab Special Fire attacks from Ninetales or Flareon and even lure counters like Scyther and Fire types in with that STAB Sludge Bomb. It definitely needs some support to work effectively as a spiker, but Spikes can make a big difference against offensive teams since they use leftovers less often and Spikes often mean the difference between X% to OHKO and the guaranteed OHKO.

but but ampharos isn't really a wall no reliable recovery, 125 base SpA, near perfect coverage with the right HP = not really a wall

mfw you lowball me and claim to be clearing out the lowballs

Or just letting me play?

Modest - HP Fire 18 / 28 / 23 / 24 / 27 / 28 offer me or perish flaming encouraged

i missed a lot of discussion here but: I generally think suggestions like this are a pain in the ass, unnecessary and generally silly, but I'm actually ok with this implementation because it's pretty minimal and helps to deal with the problem where players catch a shiny and have no idea what it's actually worth. Even if you know that shinies appear 1/X encounters, X is only as important as the number of players who play the game. While new players could go look up info about shinies online, that info doesn't say anything about the economy of PokeMMO. While staff aren't obligated to manage this part of the game so much it might help reduce turnover (players get a shiny, sell it and and then quit because they run out of money or become disenchanted about trading). re: strawman fallacy - i didn't really see cody's posts as strawman arguments, he more or less just summed up a lot of points people made and then provided a brief explanation of why those claims were reductionistic. summing up an argument into a bullet point does not equate to a strawman, so long as the original argument being made is not diluted or made into something it's not.

eevee carefull f - 24/ 23 / 23 / x / 26 / 26 trapinch adamant f - 12 / 31 / 22 / x / 28 / 25

Remember when we had that poll of "how long to wait" "when to reset usage" etc. ? Yeah we already addressed that. The only difference is that the 2 month thingy can get messed up.

Well I'm not saying it's exclusively Ampharos's fault, there's also the problems of Xatu, Haunter, Grumpig, and so on. I just feel like these four force the player's hand a lot, and that's not as competitive/healthy as having checks that actually dissuade you from running them (e.g. Absol). It's not like NU is anywhere near as bad as OU was/is :) Not meant to be a potshot at you guys necessarily, but it did seem that the "let it be and hope the meta evolves" mentality didn't really follow up on the second part of that promise. I'd rather just agree to disagree here, it's a moot point. At the very least, I agree that we should consider fixing this rule. The only imminent problem I'm seeing is that if we do a "4 tourneys and then update" rule or something, we're eventually going to end up with changes happening all willy nilly, which isn't necessarily horrible, but Noad might not be down.

/agree We did set up the rules like this, now it's time to follow em I think the changes in NU are good, seeing as the old NU council really didn't make any progress on tiering in the last two months. These changes (removal of Blasty/Amphy) are long overdue, and it's becoming more apparent to me that the lack of bans in NU hasn't really made for a more competitive tier. If all of these now UU pokemon were meant to be in NU then we'll see them back in the tier come December, altho I suspect Ampharos will continue to see more use in UU.

Pic9: 30 31 17 30 26 29 Naive F 130k i'll buy - what lvl tho? I'd pay 20k or something extra for you to evolve since sometimes evo's a pain cuz happiness gets wiped after trade

gimme dat glalie

Idk J, there's always going to be a market for that free leveling service (with me, at least)

This is brilliant, all of the moving parts of breeding are a bit maddening at times. Definitely see no downsides, except for that braces are too expensive.

I'd say ditch Machamp for sure, probably ditch Umbreon/Weezing core for Chansey/Slowbro (or P2), and possilby throw Jolteon, unless you're running Heal Bell, Wish, Rain Dance or something. Ursaring is a good swap for Machamp, as is Heracross Kingdra is pretty awesome but it hates Chansey Gyarados is ok but risky given that Porygon2 is popular. Curse Swampert might be a more usable option.

where's the wild charge on 9/knock off on buzz tho fun watch tho, forgot that UU is the best tier for a sec there

I'd say Chansey's the best, but P2 + a cleric can be pretty cool too. Other lower tier pokes like Ampharos, Kangaskhan, Altaria and Miltank can work too, but are less reliable on the whole than the more higher used pokemon in OU.

but.. that just negates the whole idea of "Ubers" - which is supposed to be the tier with no bans With your idea we just end the awkward scenario that Smogon found themselves in with Mega-Rayquaza earlier this year meh, I'd honestly say that our current metagame is more like DPP than ADV, just because of the split. I don't really have anything against Ubers but this is like the 4th time this thread has happened and Ubers still isn't common because the other metagames are just better... except OU, kind of a perpetually meh game ... edit: mehtagame