[Denied]TM Distribution - a more feasible idea.

[Atuan]

Well they'd have to be quite low, otherwise it'd essentially be reusable TMs.

It might be faster to get a single TM, but considering you can unlock the entirety of the game in under an hour, most people will choose to run through.

I myself will always prefer thieving, but my play style is the minority.

You can't have your cake and eat it, on this one.

[Darkshade]

Well they'd have to be quite low, otherwise it'd essentially be reusable TMs.

It might be faster to get a single TM, but considering you can unlock the entirety of the game in under an hour, most people will choose to run through.

I myself will always prefer thieving, but my play style is the minority.

You can't have your cake and eat it, on this one.

I give kudos to whoever can run through the game in hour.

However what if it came to three characters per IP?

But that's besides the point, I still believe this method could be faster than running through the game again, and more efficient.

[Tokxilchaosz]

That was my point. Getting some TMs will take longer thieving than running through the game, but the latter will give you ALL story TMs.

As it should. If you want multiple specific TMs such as flamethrower/thunderbolt then you should put some more effort into getting them. These will be more valuable and you could probably end up trading them for 3+ lesser TMs (That others could get from doing the storyline).

Furthermore, if the underlying goal behind this idea isn't to reduce character creation but instead

=words=

then I have to revoke my support for this idea.

That was in response to my post which was in response to someone suggesting that TMs should not be tradable. I believe both Darkshade and I both would prefer keeping TMs trade-able. (I think he does)

[Darkshade]

That was in response to my post which was in response to someone suggesting that TMs should not be tradable. I believe both Darkshade and I both would prefer keeping TMs trade-able. (I think he does)

I certainly do.

[Atuan]

I was the one suggesting that, Tokxil x.x;

The most commonly used TMs are Focus Punch, Rest, and Earthquake (for now)

All of these are easily obtained by a quick run through. Earthquale being the only one that would take some reasonable time. (Rest takes 5-10 minutes)

Why farm Sandslash for an hour or two for Earthquake when you can just get all three in the same time? Plus a load of others.

PS

Keep in mind this is my opinion of the average mindset and NOT my own.

[Tokxilchaosz]

I was the one suggesting that, Tokxil x.x;

my bad.

The most commonly used TMs are Focus Punch, Rest, and Earthquake (for now)

All of these are easily obtained by a quick run through. Earthquale being the only one that would take some reasonable time. (Rest takes 5-10 minutes)

Why farm Sandslash for an hour or two for Earthquake when you can just get all three in the same time? Plus a load of others.

Because we can spend that time in game on our main account chattting with friends, and its not like using Thief is completely useless. Get a lvl 100 dark type to use thief and it can probably one hit any wild Pokemon in the game right now. You can train up low leveled Pokemon at the same time as farm for TMs (although not as good as the Tangela patch).

[JaeHwa]

Thankyou.

You may not need to, if you could obtain the TM you need from someone~

But then I have to find out what they want, or how many they want, if they will even trade it for what it's worth. That's more trouble than I'm looking for, so I would just make an alt and get the TM in an hour or so.

I like the idea, and it would be better (hopefully) than the current situation is.

[Patrick]

With a working Thief, 5% on wild X would be just fine. Also, I really doubt we'll be able to / want to speedrun on alts forever.

What happens if an update comes and suddenly NPC trainers challenge you on sight? (just an example, and it's from the games, so it's possible)

[Tokxilchaosz]

Also, I really doubt we'll be able to / want to speedrun on alts forever. What happens if an update comes and suddenly NPC trainers challenge you on sight? (just an example, and it's from the games, so it's possible)

This. I seriously doubt anyone can beat the real game with NPC trainers and full animations working as fast as they can use Thief a few times and get the 5-7 top tier TMs that they really want. And people who just speedrun on alts just for itemes will burn out after a while, and they will not have traded anyone or used the Trade Corner forum (or otherwise interacted with other players).

[Darkshade]

This. I seriously doubt anyone can beat the real game with NPC trainers and full animations working as fast as they can use Thief a few times and get the 5-7 top tier TMs that they really want. And people who just speedrun on alts just for itemes will burn out after a while, and they will not have traded anyone or used the Trade Corner forum (or otherwise interacted with other players).

^ Exactly.

It's fine to say people will in concept, but realistically, they'd get very bored.

[Hemlock]

I can farm items while watching Bob's Burgers in another window. Can't do that with speedruns.

[Darkshade]

I can farm items while watching Bob's Burgers in another window. Can't do that with speedruns.

Argument settled, haha.

[Atuan]

Just because three people agree, mostly due in part to a false concept, (wasn't it stated that NPC trainers will never challenge you? Or at least it isn't currently planned?) doesn't mean the argument is settled.

Sure, there will be some TMs that won't take very long, but enough people have said they'd rather just run through and get all TMs for me to double guess. I'm not saying scrap the idea, because the core concept still holds. I just can't see it being that game breaking or detrimental to anyone's play-style if TMs were locked to your character.

I understand in a perfect world this idea would also bring along a sub-market that makes the economy meta game a little more diverse. Hell, I'd probably be one of the biggest beneficiaries of this, as I've already got a level 100 shiny Butterfree raring to go. However, my major concern is cutting down on character runs, that's why I want this to be the end-all (plus breeding).

PS

Again, please keep in mind that I would rather farm Tauros for six hours than replay the storyline for Rest.

[Metalkon]

Anything that encourages players to catch wild pokemon after breeding is ingame without doing major harm is a great idea to me.

[Patrick]

Anything that encourages players to catch wild pokemon after breeding is ingame without doing major harm is a great idea to me.

Then Thief came along.

(I'm still in favour, as a second preference to a regular old TM shop.)

[marsbars]

I really like this idea.

[Darkshade]

Just because three people agree, mostly due in part to a false concept, (wasn't it stated that NPC trainers will never challenge you? Or at least it isn't currently planned?) doesn't mean the argument is settled.

Sure, there will be some TMs that won't take very long, but enough people have said they'd rather just run through and get all TMs for me to double guess. I'm not saying scrap the idea, because the core concept still holds. I just can't see it being that game breaking or detrimental to anyone's play-style if TMs were locked to your character.

I understand in a perfect world this idea would also bring along a sub-market that makes the economy meta game a little more diverse. Hell, I'd probably be one of the biggest beneficiaries of this, as I've already got a level 100 shiny Butterfree raring to go. However, my major concern is cutting down on character runs, that's why I want this to be the end-all (plus breeding).

PS

Again, please keep in mind that I would rather farm Tauros for six hours than replay the storyline for Rest.

I'd like to know why my idea specifically HAS to be the main cause to prevent people making alts, although I understand it has to do with the fact people do it for TM's.

Alternate accounts will be cut down upon I am sure, even WITH this idea, as I've already said, we could end up limiting alts, and we could up the percentages of these TM's.

It will still have an effect on the amount of alternate accounts, regardless.

Then Thief came along.

(I'm still in favour, as a second preference to a regular old TM shop.)

<3

I really like this idea.

Thankyou.

[Atuan]

I'd like to know why my idea specifically HAS to be the main cause to prevent people making alts, although I understand it has to do with the fact people do it for TM's.

There are, arguably, three things to make alternate accounts for (other than self-challenge or justcuz).

1. One-time obtainable pokemon. This includes Eevee, Fossils, Hitmons, Starters, Lapras, all NPC trade pokemon, etc.
   
   • This reason will be 100% wiped out because of breeding/trading. It will be extremely easy to obtain a starter egg for any of these pokemon.
     

[*]One-time obtainable items. This includes, but isn't limited to, Exp. Share, Soothe Bell and Leftovers.

• Ideally, Leftovers will be covered by Pickup. Having many of these makes it easier to manage your roster (assuming you have more than six) so that you aren't swapping your Leftovers around in between pokemon.
  
• Soothe Bell, however, will not make a lot of sense in the Pickup table because having any more than six of these is asinine. There isn't much reason to have more than one, but, if for whatever reason, you want to increase the happiness of several pokemon at once, it can be handy. That being said, it is a minuscule part of the game.
  
• Exp. Share doesn't make much sense in the Pickup table, either. You will only ever need five of these and probably only want one of them. (one or five will still take equal amounts of time, it's really just for the uguu trainers)
  
• Both the Soothe Bell and Exp. Share would make a lot of sense somewhere like the Game Corner. They can be purchased after a bit of work and any coins you earn beyond obtaining the 5/6 counts of the items can be put towards other Game Corner prizes.
  

[*]The only other reason for an alternate playthrough (BESIDES challenging yourself, doing it for fun, and other ways that wouldn't impact your 'main' character) is for the one-time obtainable TMs.

• Renewable TMs should do away with this, but considering the time it takes for a full clear, it might not.
  
• Multi-use TMs and a TM shop have already been shot down.
  
• Although some TMs may be quickly obtained via Darkshade's implementation, they may not equate to getting all the TMs in one play-through and trading them.
  

Now, let's look at some options.

1. Make the TM held-rates high enough to discourage alternate accounts even more.
   
   • I personally feel this would be too easy. If you can get Earthquake from a Diglet 20% of the time, no one will ever run an alt through for it, but it will also devalue the crap out of the TM. Lower this chance of holding the TM and the value increases, but the desire to make an alt increases.
     

[*]Make TMs untradeable.

• This will completely wipe out the desire to make alt characters (once the other issues are addresses e.g., breeding). However, it will also completely wipe out the sub-market for TMs. All TMs will lose their value and a strong portion of the existing economy will disappear.
  

[*]Here's the best I could do for a middle ground. Get ready. Remove story-line TMs.

• All TMs found on the ground, received from a Gym Leader or other NPC, etc. will be completely removed from the game. This means that alt accounts will not obtain TMs, completely removing the desire to make them. However, it will also preserve the TM market, albeit changing the values somewhat and, in some cases, drastically. The only visible downside to this, in my opinion, is making it difficult for new players, as well as the foreseeable WHERE DIG? questions that will flood up. Considering the alternatives, though, I find this to be the best option. Maybe it will be a bit harder for new players, but once they realize those level 2 Pidgey they caught were holding Whirlwind, they might understand.
  

I patiently await your rebuttle, Dark.

[Lycanite]

Legendaries could offer rare TMs, perhaps even some TMs unique to PokeMMO (such as legendary signature moves like Sacred Fire) instead of being able to catch them.

[Atuan]

Legendaries could offer rare TMs, perhaps even some TMs unique to PokeMMO (such as legendary signature moves like Sacred Fire) instead of being able to catch them.

...

[Darkshade]

I will get to this, when I have more time - I assure you.

[Atuan]

Newb. Just because you get a STAB doesn't make your Assurance effective - Crunch would have been stronger.

[novato]

Newb. Just because you get a STAB doesn't make your Assurance effective - Crunch would have been stronger.

i loled, very witty

[Necromanster]

Here's the best I could do for a middle ground. Get ready. Remove story-line TMs.

1. 
   
   • All TMs found on the ground, received from a Gym Leader or other NPC, etc. will be completely removed from the game. This means that alt accounts will not obtain TMs, completely removing the desire to make them. However, it will also preserve the TM market, albeit changing the values somewhat and, in some cases, drastically. The only visible downside to this, in my opinion, is making it difficult for new players, as well as the foreseeable WHERE DIG? questions that will flood up. Considering the alternatives, though, I find this to be the best option. Maybe it will be a bit harder for new players, but once they realize those level 2 Pidgey they caught were holding Whirlwind, they might understand.
     

Perhaps this is a minor adjustment but you could make it so you can only catch certain TM's once you pick up the TM in-game. Now picking the TM up in-game wouldn't be added to your bag, it would unlock the option to be able to obtain it from caught wild pokemon. This will add a little bit more originality to the game then just completely removing them.

[Darkshade]

1.) You have cleared up yourself - breeding will come into effect, and there will be less of a desire to create alt accounts, given that they need to be level 50, although I do not doubt this limit may be taken away eventually.

2.) I'm actually agreeing with you on this one, make these items obtainable elsewhere and there is no problem, whether it be through pickup, or the game corner.

3.) ;

1.) 20% is a little over the top, 5% is still quite high, but not too high that it would be too common, and not too low that it would be too rare.

That being said, 10% is another option, but 20% is too damn high!

2.) But then you lose a large potential for a whole other market, yes I understand why you'd think that's a good idea, in that it would force people to go out and find these TM's, but what would be the point? That would just aggravate players, and kill off the potential for a good trade economy.

3.) I'm seeing your idea, and I'm not disagreeing that it is a solution, I'm just not sure it's the right solution, the game isn't as quick to run through as you make out, but yes it can be done in a short amount of time, what if the TM percentages were tallied up so they were just as easy to obtain on a playthrough of the game (Or close to) then this wouldn't be an issue.

Or there's your idea, there's another idea that story TM's are separate from these TM's, and cannot be traded (Which may be the best solution, but lacks some logic)

And there may be many other ideas, although as I have stated, the percentages are up for debate.