[Denied]Pickup Item Table (And Finger Puppets)

[Snewgon]

After considering various ideas I've come to some conclusions.

1. There should be a pickup chart for Hoenn and a different pickup chart for Kanto/Sevi. This might be controversial.

2. The stupid/irrelevant items in the original Emerald chart are methods of balancing used for the ability.

3. Due to many of this game's (PokeMMO's) balancing mechanics (player's movement speed, limitations of Pokemon's stats, etc.) being based on that of Emerald (I say this specific version because it has the "best" chart), Emerald's pickup chart is balanced for this game, or at least a good starting point for balance.

4. Therefore, the stupid/irrelevant items should remain in the chart, in the same place for both lists.

5. The "goodies", these being items which are otherwise unobtainable or hard to obtain except via pickup (basically those worth pickup farming for), should be different between the charts. This will add more dimensions to farming, and make farming some items unacessible until getting to Hoenn.

6. To prevent confusion as much as possible, Hoenn's pickup chart should be exactly the same as the Emerald pickup chart. See here:

7. TM26, Leftovers, TM01, TM44, Mental Herb and King's Rock can all be replaced in the Kanto pickup chart for renewable TMs or other useful items some have been discussing. This will yield Kanto's pickup chart.

I'd like to hear others' opinions on whether or not Rare Candies, PP-UPs, Elixers, or Ethers should be swapped for something, and of course opinions on whether or not I should throw this idea out the window.

Random Suggestion: If players are too tired of waiting, the Sevii Islands (which might be closer to Hoenn for all I know) could have the Hoenn pickup chart (at least until Hoenn is put in).

Thanks for not TL;DR'ing me, Merry Christmas Eve, and good night.

[LazarFirinBoy]

I still think there should be Kanto pickups in Kanto and Hoenn pickups in Hoenn. That makes more items available with Kanto AND Hoenn pickups being available. Plus, it makes it more like the real games.

[caughtem]

lol... there's a lot more than Taunt missing from that list. There are about 10 TMs of the 50 that are renewable.

The general consensus seems to be using Emerald's table but dropping the irrelevant/stupid items, like the white herb.

What? I like the white herb, it is great if you want to use overheat twice. Unless i'm thinking of another herb.

[Snewgon]

Or in my case, 6 shiny meowth... Honestly rare candies could be replaced at lower levels if that would help. Or entirely. Honestly, rare candies are way less important than things like PP ups and a renewable source of some TMs and Ethers.

Oops. Didn't see you there.

6 Shiny meowth? You sir are a persistent gamer. I was happy with 1 adamant meowth and 5 others with pickup ^^

I only mentioned how rare candies could be abused in the table before because I thought you were leaning that way. It's my opinion that they're fine (as I said in #3 of my last post).

I still think there should be Kanto pickups in Kanto and Hoenn pickups in Hoenn. That makes more items available with Kanto AND Hoenn pickups being available. Plus, it makes it more like the real games.

That was a great idea. Thanks for mentioning it :)

What? I like the white herb, it is great if you want to use overheat twice. Unless i'm thinking of another herb.

White herb is the one that makes your stats go back to normal if they ever go down. I think you've got the right one.

This is why I felt weird about just removing items from the chart. Everybody deserves to use a moveset they like (so long as the necessary components were available in the game), even if it's not particularly common.

Merry Christmas!!

[Atuan]

My posts keep getting deleted from this thread - probably my own doing.

What we need is a custom chart to debate over.

[Giygas]

My posts keep getting deleted from this thread - probably my own doing.

What we need is a custom chart to debate over.

Well, what level and rarity do we all think hidden power should be at?

Personally I think it should start being available with 1% rate at level 60.

[TheOriginal]

Well, what level and rarity do we all think hidden power should be at?

Personally I think it should start being available with 1% rate at level 60.

I agree

[Snewgon]

Well, what level and rarity do we all think hidden power should be at?

Personally I think it should start being available with 1% rate at level 60.

I assume you mean the 61-70 bracket, rather than just from 60 on?

Makes sense. I think in addition to the 1% in the 61-70 bracket, it should consume the 51-60 bracket (in other words completely replacing rest).

I feel as though I'm talking too much in this topic. I'll hold off a bit from now on. I promise.

[Atuan]

No, keep discussing it. I'd be right in there with you if I wasn't a little inactive these last few days.

[Snewgon]

Atuan you're an artist and an enabler. Thank you.

Changes so far:

11-30 King's Rock

41-60 White Herb

51-70 Rest (Replace w/Hidden Power)

71-90 Focus Punch

91-100 Earthquake

Time for a suggestion that everybody likes and nobody could possibly have a problem with..

11-30 King's Rock ---> Prism Scale.

I feel like false swipe should be relatively low level, since it's a weak move despite the utility thing.

41-60 White Herb ---> False Swipe

This'll be a bad trade for Kanto, but we're running low on ideas..

71-90 Focus Punch ---> Thief

So if all my suggestions are taken then we'll have:

11-30 King's Rock ---> Prism Scale (please?)

41-60 White Herb ---> False Swipe

51-70 Rest (Replaced w/Hidden Power)

71-90 Focus Punch ---> Thief

91-100 Earthquake ---> ?

Now we have to decide what to bury earthquake with. What's an awesome TM/item we're missing?

[Atuan]

Time for a suggestion that everybody likes and nobody could possibly have a problem with..

11-30 King's Rock ---> Prism Scale.

I feel like false swipe should be relatively low level, since it's a weak move despite the utility thing.

41-60 White Herb ---> False Swipe

I... I think I love you.

This'll be a bad trade for Kanto, but we're running low on ideas..

71-90 Focus Punch ---> Thief

I think that's way too high for Thief. Most people will only require one for their story team and maybe one or two on their competitive teams. I'd actually like to see Focus Punch and Earthquake remain where they are. I use EQ enough to want a team of Meowths just to farm it, and I'd also have another team just to farm FP. I think by the time we expand into a second table, we'll have other stuff to throw into the mix (such as tradeable cards, more TMs, etc.)

EDIT:

PS

Rest -> Hidden Power sounds good. 50 is low enough to encourage all competitors to get a Meowth team there.

[Giygas]

41-60 White Herb ---> False Swipe

False swipe isn't a TM in these games.

[Jarrod0306]

Honestly, I don't even know why ether's are in the table. We can buy Leppa berries from Saffron, they restore 10pp (although not yet implemented).

*proud owner of a stack of 99 Leppa Berries.

**realized they are not implemented soon after.

[Snewgon]

I... I think I love you.

Sorry - I'm already taken by Desu's avatar, but it's flattering all the same.

I think that's way too high for Thief. Most people will only require one for their story team and maybe one or two on their competitive teams. I'd actually like to see Focus Punch and Earthquake remain where they are. I use EQ enough to want a team of Meowths just to farm it, and I'd also have another team just to farm FP. I think by the time we expand into a second table, we'll have other stuff to throw into the mix (such as tradeable cards, more TMs, etc.)

EDIT:

PS

Rest -> Hidden Power sounds good. 50 is low enough to encourage all competitors to get a Meowth team there.

False swipe isn't a TM in these games.

It may be too much to hope for an oddball TM to be implemented along with pickup (or even at all). Based on the above, I think the best solution is to drop False Swipe from the 41-60 bracket and add Thief. I agree with keeping Focus Punch and Earthquake since we've basically got no other ideas (and also they are awesome).

Honestly, I don't even know why ether's are in the table. We can buy Leppa berries from Saffron, they restore 10pp (although not yet implemented).

*proud owner of a stack of 99 Leppa Berries.

**realized they are not implemented soon after.

It's always good to prepare ^^

But there are plenty of useless items on the list atm, and it seems like empty spots are our enemy since we're running low on staff in the idea-for-replacement-items department. Besides, the items that aren't amazing are there to keep pickup farming from becoming too important.

Sooo here it is:

11-30 King's Rock ---> Prism Scale

41-60 White Herb ---> Thief

51-70 Rest ---> Hidden Power

71-90 Focus Punch ---> Focus Punch

91-100 Earthquake ---> Earthquake

Everything else stays the same from the Emerald chart. That sentence probably could be worded better but you guys know what I mean.

[Atuan]

False swipe isn't a TM in these games.

Get off my Koolaid, Giygas. We're getting TM False Swipe and that's the fricken end of it.

PS

Here's a list of Gen III TMs that could be added (that weren't added until Gen IV) but all exist in the current meta-game! (So they'd really only give us some egg moves easier/faster)

TM54 - False Swipe

TM58 - Endure

TM61 - Will-o-Wisp

TM62 - Silver Wind

TM64 - Explosion

TM70 - Flash

TM73 - Thunder Wave

TM74 - Swords Dance

TM80 - Rock Slide

TM82 - Sleep Talk

TM85 - Dream Eater

TM87 - Swagger

TM90 - Substitute

Personally, I only see three issues with this list.

Will-o-Wisp, Silver Wind and Swords Dance would change the meta game (Today, December 27th, 2012) by bringing a better Weezing, Scizor/Scyther, and a ton of other builds with Swords Dance. However, Rock Slide, Explosion, Thunder Wave, Dream Eater and Substitute are all move tutor moves and any Pokemon that can learn these TMs already has access to them. Sleep Talk, Swagger, Endure aren't available until Emerald so I can see these being 86'd. Swords Dance isn't available to us yet, but will be shortly and this would work in well instead of farming accounts to tutor.

Which leaves False Swipe - a purely PvE skill that would not affect the meta-game in one bit.

So here's the list again with only the TMs I think should be added.

TM54 - False Swipe

TM61 - Will-o-Wisp (If breeding is out first)

TM62 - Silver Wind (If breeding is out first)

TM64 - Explosion

TM70 - Flash

TM73 - Thunder Wave

TM74 - Swords Dance (If Seven Island is out first)

TM80 - Rock Slide

TM85 - Dream Eater

TM90 - Substitute

[LazarFirinBoy]

Get off my Koolaid, Giygas. We're getting TM False Swipe and that's the fricken end of it.

Why can't we just wait until generation four to have TM False Swipe? That way it's more like the real game.

[Nebulae]

To be honest I'll have enough False Swipe with breeding. I don't really want it to be a TM, but I understand if you do. I wouldn't mind it.

[Volpi]

To be honest I'll have enough False Swipe with breeding. I don't really want it to be a TM, but I understand if you do. I wouldn't mind it.

Easier to get shiny parasect with false swipe so you get a shiny you would actually use :P

[Robby]

Excellent idea.

[Giygas]

Get off my Koolaid, Giygas.

TM70 - Flash

But the... but the flash... but it's we can already but I can get it you just have to...

Okay...

[Atuan]

I want HM Flash and TM Flash. ISSUE? Zero.

Easier to get shiny Parasect with false swipe.

No, no, I wasn't thinking about myself >_>

ALL TMs can be bred onto Pokemon that can learn it (with varying exceptions that usually have work-arounds) so that doesn't really validate a reason not to add False Swipe. If breeding was right around the corner, I wouldn't have time to be posting on the forums. Unfortunately, it looks a long ways off.

As for waiting on Gen IV - why? The mechanic changes the Game Freaks made throughout the years weren't progressive, they were reactive i.e., "Now that we're on PokeYear 2000, I think False Swipe should be a TM~!" vs. "Fuck this move doesn't really get good use considering you don't get it until you finish the entire game and move onto the islands. Let's make it a TM and sell it at the Department Stores from now on."

[Snewgon]

NO TM!

BEEDRILL ISN'T ALLOWED TO HAVE FALSE SWIPE YET!!

NOT CANON IS NOT CANNON!!!

But yeah I really don't mind. As for those other shiny new TMs, they might need a form of implementation other than pickup. This chart is already pretty saturated. Unless we start throwing out random things like X-items and escape ropes, which would skew the balance a bit imo. Pickup already gave us some of the rarest and most consumable items in the game before we started tweaking it.

[Atuan]

X-items don't deserve to ever be implemented.

[Tokxilchaosz]

X-items don't deserve to ever be implemented.

Not empty quoting.

[Atuan]

Not empty quoting.

You're alive...