Arena Trap ability

[WolfgangDamien]

Im curious as to the public's opinion on Arena Trap ability, as most of the users / other pokemon with abilities that prevent switching are banned to Ubers. 

 

((this is not a thread to complain, beg or whine about game mechanics. I just wanna see what actual users think. Please dont lock this thread thinking im trying to complain and get it changed.))

 

I personally think its a good ability and should be allowed, because I think switching out is more abused than any single ability could ever be abused.

 

Whats your opinion? 

Edited March 21, 2016 by WolfgangDamien

[Kurodashi]

To be fair it is only dugtrio who is ubers (with arena trap).

 

And the thing is switching and predictions are what makes skill in this game and I think arena trap limits that and I am glad it is not a common ability but it also helps create new strategies and counter play.

 

In my opinion the ability is only as strong as the pokemon who has it meaning if you have trapinch you maybe able to kill chansey but almost every other pokemon is easily gonna kill trapinch.

[WolfgangDamien]

Ah, I probably should have made it include Shadow Tag ability, or said pokemon with abilities that prevent switching in general. Though my initial reason for making the thread was learning of Trapinch's recent HUGE jump in usage because of it's arena trap ability, lol. 

Edited March 21, 2016 by WolfgangDamien

[Kurodashi]

Well personally I don't think trapinch deserves OU the only thing it is used for is traping chansey and it has or rather had no usage in NU/UU. (I think i have seen it once in a lower tier team (lower than OU) with no success).

[WolfgangDamien]

Well the numbers are actual usages by active members so numbers cant really lie o.o I know a couple people in my team did make comp Trapinches in response to Dugtrio becoming Uber and it looks like nearly everyone else had the same idea. Right before the ban to Uber I was thinking of making a Dugtrio myself, lol. 

Edited March 21, 2016 by WolfgangDamien

[Kurodashi]

I guess Trapinch was the imidiate response to the dugtrio ban but I feel like its usage has gone down since people are finding more was do deal with chansey then just arena trap.

[WolfgangDamien]

Chansey is easily dealt with by any faster fighting type pokemon with a STAB attack though..  :huh:

[Kurodashi]

This is where the switching part comes into play.

 

Of course you can switch a fighting pokemon into chansey but I just gets switched out which arena trap prevents + trapinch can kill chansey with superpower.

[OrangeManiac]

There just seems to be so much misunderstanding in this thread already so I have to correct some things here. Not most of the Pokemon with trapping abilities are banned. Only Wobbuffet and Dugtrio. Magneton, Trapinch, Diglett and Wynaut are allowed. Pokemon do not get banned only for having a trapping ability, they need to be in some other way detrimental to the competitive play.

 

Wobbuffet is banned because it simply is just ridiculously overpowering with the moves Counter and Mirror Coat. Its stats make it easily live hits and high base HP allows it to Counter/Mirror Coat that with insane damage. Beating Wobbuffet would not only require to run set up sweeping or Toxic but the move Encore can lock the Pokemon into these moves and can be used to set up their own Pokemon while the enemy is locked to a move. Due to these reasons Wobbuffet is just ridiculously OP and Ubers.

 

Dugtrio is banned not for trapping Chansey but for trapping the Pokemon that beat Chansey. Basically how the metagame worked in the Dugtrio era was that an offensive threat beat a Pokemon, opponent goes to Dugtrio and revenge kills it while there's nothing to be done. Your Metagross, Heracross, Blazikens, Ursarings and whatnots got Dugtrio trapped so you no longer had them in your efforts to defeat Chansey. This metagame become quite cancerous for the fact you could lose your offensive wallbreakers despite not making a single mistake. The tier council had brought up the idea of banning Arena Trap because Diglett could abuse the same thing to lesser extent, however the final decision was to ban Dugtrio.

 

Neither of these Pokemon were banned because of having a trapping ability, they are banned for being bad for the metagame which partly is directed from their ability.

 

Chansey is easily dealt with by any faster fighting type pokemon with a STAB attack though..  :huh:

 

Unfortunately no because of Weezing. Weezing can counter basically any Fight-type in the tier excluding Blaziken so breaking that core has become somewhat difficult.

[Kurodashi]

In my opinion the ability is only as strong as the pokemon who has it

 

I guess I should explain it in more detail next time good thing you did it.

[Bishav]

https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/forum/23-competition-alley/

 

 

Im curious

[spoiler][/spoiler]

 

Trapinch must have been through a lot to end up in OU. The tier council takes its job seriously

[Kizhaz]

I know I'm the minority in saying this, but I personally feel that Arena Trap should be banned. To me it comes into the same argument as Baton Pass, but on the opposite end of the spectrum. Baton pass ultimately gave the user the ability to scout their opponent next move causing imbalance in the meta game, along this it could also pass boosts which is just icing on the cake. Arena Trap instead of allowing you to see your opponents next move and get a safe switch, prevents your opponent from switching which I feel comes under the same imbalance. Dugtrio was a little hard done by as it is only the Ability which makes him under the Ubers characteristic, Sand Veil Dugtrio would most likely be NU. You can say what you want, but Dugtrio was only banned because of his Ability, it has no overwhelming offence, pitiful defense and speed that is bested by few others, other than AT it had nothing for it's ban.

 

Now I know if AT were banned then "Trapinch and Diglett aren't uber with AT, hence it is not ban worthy" but if any stage 1 pokemon is being used in a meta with no eviolite or any offencive items besides Choice Band, one would expect it to have decent stats, but alas again those two are only used for their trapping abilities and although they are by no means Uber, they are above LC where they belong.

[Gunthug]

I know I'm the minority in saying this, but I personally feel that Arena Trap should be banned. To me it comes into the same argument as Baton Pass, but on the opposite end of the spectrum. Baton pass ultimately gave the user the ability to scout their opponent next move causing imbalance in the meta game, along this it could also pass boosts which is just icing on the cake. Arena Trap instead of allowing you to see your opponents next move and get a safe switch, prevents your opponent from switching which I feel comes under the same imbalance. Dugtrio was a little hard done by as it is only the Ability which makes him under the Ubers characteristic, Sand Veil Dugtrio would most likely be NU. You can say what you want, but Dugtrio was only banned because of his Ability, it has no overwhelming offence, pitiful defense and speed that is bested by few others, other than AT it had nothing for it's ban.

 

Now I know if AT were banned then "Trapinch and Diglett aren't uber with AT, hence it is not ban worthy" but if any stage 1 pokemon is being used in a meta with no eviolite or any offencive items besides Choice Band, one would expect it to have decent stats, but alas again those two are only used for their trapping abilities and although they are by no means Uber, they are above LC where they belong.

I'm pretty well on the fence re: an arena trap flat ban, but I do think it's slightly similar to sand veil in gen 4. They banned all weather evasion abilities based on uncompetitiveness without regards to the fact that cacturne, a poke not used in OU, would be banned by default as a result. Now, did this decision have anything to do with the fact that Gliscor, even without sand veil, represents a decently important piece in the OU meta (which meant they didnt wanna just ban gliscor)? Possibly - you certainly couldn't say the same for dugtrio, which like you said would fall drastically w/o arena trap.

 

Also, I'm curious to hear what you think of u-turn? I would throw volt switch in there too, but it's stopped by ground types. Uturn though, in a gen4 meta without rocky helmet, is essentially just baton pass + damage (and ofc it doesnt pass stats but as you said, thats really just icing on the cake)

Edited March 22, 2016 by Gunthug

[Kizhaz]

I'm pretty well on the fence re: an arena trap flat ban, but I do think it's slightly similar to sand veil in gen 4. They banned all weather evasion abilities based on uncompetitiveness without regards to the fact that cacturne, a poke not used in OU, would be banned by default as a result. Now, did this decision have anything to do with the fact that Gliscor, even without sand veil, represents a decently important piece in the OU meta (which meant they didnt wanna just ban gliscor)? Possibly - you certainly couldn't say the same for dugtrio, which like you said would fall drastically w/o arena trap.

 

Also, I'm curious to hear what you think of u-turn? I would throw volt switch in there too, but it's stopped by ground types. Uturn though, in a gen4 meta without rocky helmet, is essentially just baton pass + damage (and ofc it doesnt pass stats but as you said, thats really just icing on the cake)

 

I keep forgetting to respond to this. I haven't thought too much about the introduction of U-turn/ Volt switch, however I always just assumed that Baton pass would no longer be banned and in turn would bring Dugtrio back from Ubers as trapping won't be as big of a problem (although idk in our meta)

[jasonoon95]

its part of pokemon, deal with it, dont ban something cuz you cant defeat it, lel

[LuisPocho]

its part of pokemon, deal with it, dont ban something cuz you cant defeat it, lel

why would we keep the boring and stupids parts of pokemon when we can ban them? that would be absurb

[OldKeith]

Should be allowed, as long as it is not on dugtrio (which is pretty powerful and fast)

[Thunderprime]

Damn you must sucks hard to think it is boring and should be banned. Like he sais its part of the game same like magneton trapping your skarmory. yes it fucks up your team deal with it dude you can win without chansey