RysPicz

Chansey is a combination of support + defensive + unhealthiness (uhhh sorry I had to). The argument about previous meta isn't much relevant now after updates changing the metagame so much, we're somewhere different than we were with previous meta. Well like I said again it shuts down an entire playstyle (special offensive) so defensive uber should also be taken under consideration. Along with unhealthiness. [spoiler]I couldn't resist, sorry bruh XD[/spoiler] Yeah I'm all up for a test ban, we should see a big spark in the usage of Zam, Esp, Star and some weather teams. I wouldn't even thing about getting rid of it if we'd have a complete gen 3 meta tho... If I'm up to be honest, I really fucking hate dug as well but it's so goddamn effective.

All things you listed are physical threats. We're talking about how Chansey blocks special attackers making their playstyle and weather teams to be completly unviable. :v I do see it as both unhealthy due to our incomplete meta where we lack special offensive presence combined with future gen moves and abilities, PLUS it is defensively uber. Period. No poke tops Chansey in terms of absorbing special hits. Nothing. [spoiler]yeah bringing unhealtiness wasn't the smartest thing xdd[/spoiler]

I wish I could say what I mean in my own language, but I compared the pokes usage-wise, not comparing their impact on the meta. The whole argument of Zeb is just pure bullshit and does not connect to what I wrote at all. Metagross gets shit on by HP Fire, which 90% of espeons should run and it's outspeeded. Aero is not a switch-in, it can only revenge kill. Arcanine unless sdef invested won't risk coming into Esp either. Slaking also won't risk coming into esp. We are talking about switch-ins when Esp is out in a favourable position. Neither of pokes you mentioned (except Metagross) would switch into Espeon.

Hyper voice doesn't seem as a gimmick for me, not as much as hail for sure, as it's a STAB move that goes through sub. Maybe it's power isn't super impressive (135 BP with STAB) but it can still do damage similar to seismic toss in few examples and again, it kills subrev dug which is Chansey's doom otherwise. Chansey is not really easy to exploit due to it's wide movepool. Wish pass is cool, aroma is cool, twave is cool so is tox, counter is like doom for physical attackers unable to oneshot it. P2 and Gardevoir don't stop special sweepers cold: Starmie and rain/ sun teams would become much more viable if these 2 would be our available sdef walls. Chansey stops those pokes cold. I would get rid of chansey because it simply stops special offensive in the tier. I don't know how to voice it, I'm not into tiering. But Lino got banned and Zard got banned because they made a certain playstyle (stall) totally unviable. Same goes here with Chansey. I'm up for at least a test ban to see how the meta will look like. And zeb being stubborn af and posting weird arguments, like... I just burst in laugh. I literally laughed IRL. What the fuck are you talking about. I did compare the usage of these, saying that usage is not relevant when it comes to tiering and you are comparing Lando to Chansey as pokes similarity. Lando got banned while it's usage was like 20%, not even sure, someone correct me if I'm wrong. Chansey got like 33% right now. Jesus. How are you even a council member is a fucking mystery for me. I don't feel like reading the rest of your post after reading that.

Usage is not relevant when we are talking about bans. I don't remember how big usage Lando had before it got banned into ubers in ORAS OU but it was even lower than Chansey's in here. Chansey is punished hard by trapping pokemon? Digler and dugtrio do need substitute + reversal to get rid of it, while it can dispose of each with hyper voice making them completly useless slot in the team. We seen it happening already. Trapinch in OU is just lol. If you are talking about pokemons with Block/ Mean look a'ka perish trappers or block + setup sweepers (Gard and Slowbro are the only ones I can think of right now), then it's only a proof of how dominant Chansey is in the tier, as they are almost solely made under the big fat chick. And like you said we got sets specifically made UNDER ONLY ONE POKE which is Chansey. This is not playing smart or countering the main counter of the team but disposing of cancer that otherwise won't give a shit about you and your team unless you brought all out physical team. Which seems to be very popular right now according to the usage and we all know why. There is no risk in using Chansey. It won't get pursuit-killed like Gardevoir, does not sport a status weakness like P2, Ludi or earlier mentioned Gard and TWave is always there to prevent any sweeper from setting up and ruining the team. It outclasses every SDef wall in the tier in every aspect aside from offense and became too good not to use. Obviously it doesn't define meta as much as Metagross does which is on 1 out of 2 teams which imo is unhealthy a little bit but Metagross gets trapped by 2 most common trappers, has poor STAB and once it revealed it's set it's easy to handle. But saying that Chansey doesn't define the meta at all is a herecy. 1/3 teams carry Chansey. When you wrote "Chansey doesn't affect how viable sp attackers are" I almost choked with my lunch. Look at the usage table and tell me how many of these pokes are purely special attacking in the top 30. Only Jolteon and Star while Star is more often used as an offensive spinner rather than a pure special attacker. Espeon sees no usage because of the fat blob at all. Kingdra and Ludi got transformed into Physical set (Kingdra) and sdef set (Ludi) because their rain sets are ineffective with this shit in tier. Any weather special-attacking poke is irrelevant because of that. The whole meta is physically oriented because there is no point in carrying special attackers with her in tier. What I was thinking of is bringing the argument why Chansey became so good in our pokemmo meta. We have the split from future generations. Yet, we didn't get a single poke from them, nor moves. Ba! We lack Johto starters, Milotic and legendaries. In old gen3 meta, there were pokes capable of setting up on Chansey (Suicune, Celebi, Raikou, Jirachi) and pokes that were defining the meta and are banned in ours due to a) split b) incomplete meta (Mence, TTar, Lax, Bliss, Gengar). Then, we lack a lot of moves from gen4, most notably things like physical Bug move, special fighting move,special ground move etc. And also abilities such as sheer force. Our meta is unwelcoming for special attackers because of the split, lack of most common and powerful pokes from gen3 and lack of moves. Another thing is our fantastic council that seems to just sit and do nothing while tiers are screaming to be fixed.

Don't need it, got a god tier from Fred already. Thanks doe bruh. This can be closed

I've voided the bet that Kiz accepted even though he lost it, just for the record. He was up to pay it so you can consider it paid

No Mercy triumphs

Depends on how many vitamins from altruns I got

Amo a Timwaps <3

I'll give you a like

Omg so savage I bet they shit their pants already

*150k or even more, one peek on trade chat and I've seen a stick for 200k. This really needs to be fixed asap because we simply cannot make comps and MMO metagame is already stagnant as fuck due to difficult and costly breeding.

I also don't really see Vileplume as the real problem. It has high usage but plethora of common weaknesses make it really exposable and there are pokes that can expose them, thus fall in the usage. About Sceptile move- it's more like... we are crying in UU for something different. Something has to be done. Sceptile on paper doesn't seem to be that much threatening and might help to balance the tier, besides even if it fails, we at least tried something. Because of idleness the tier is stagnant and wallish and absolutely not enjoyable for a large part of cummunity, including myself. E: shit double post and I wanted to edit. sorry, 3 days of work of 11-12 hours can do that to you E2: Do not bring Zard back or I'm gonna make you regret it the first tournament you do it.

Exeggutor. E: Welp somehow I erased the rest of my post. I'll fix this soon

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Cross me out, im going out with a gril that evrning, no chances. Evening with a qt is 100% success, that one is 1/6

Robo hit the nail on the head. It is not about a trading system you are or are not going to implement. It is all about mindless grind that game has to offer and nothing really much outside of it. Honestly the main reason why I even bother logging in outside of tournamentd are my friends, my teammates. I am more than sure that a big wmount of other players feels totally the same. I know players who log in just to chat and do nothing productive in the game. Trading system is just a nice addition but what we really need are items and easier access to them. 150k per one item when I need 2 is a fucking outrage, so is spending 3-4 hours to find one myself. Same goes with evtrain. It took me 4 days to evtrain 4 pokes in atk, speed and hp. While also using some vitamins to speed it up. Oh and also making these comps took me like a month. Soon I will be on holiday and I will try to record how much time and money I spent making one decent comp. Then I am going to ask you, devs, a question: would you enjoy it yourself. E: pardon my typos, am on phone

You need 1 hour. Make hoenn alt, go into dewford, grab the silk scarf. Shouldn't take more than 30 mins. Repeat over and over to get more silk scarfs. Devs are forcing us to make alts, so let's do that. E: It gets worse. This is a fucking outrage.

I'm not sure if this is the right thread but I'd like to do it here. I would like to suggest moving Sceptile down. It's speed might seem dangerous, as well as it's movepool, but average defensive stats along with typing that leaves it with plethora of weaknesses and the fact that it's outspeeded by Swellow + totally countered by omnipresent Plume might leave it with a chance of staying and helping in the tier which is full of walls. What do you think?

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I think you are missing my point. If you think I want a tier like that then go into archive and look who made wals of text against Alakazam, Charizard, Rhydon and prob more but these 3 are the most recent ones that I do remember. Think before making a post like thst kid. I am always looking at poke from subjective point agreed, but the main priority for me is balanced and healthy metagame for everyone. If a certain pokemon like Chansey stops all of OUs special attackers, offers unrivalled support with wish, aroma and status-absorbing then for me it id a no go. Oh and we saw how trappers do against Chansey during a certain PSL match where it killed a subrev dug with hyper voice. Usage does not lie, it is now either in higher usage than even Metagross or comes close to it. if 8 pages of discussion is not enough for you Robo, I will make another wall of text for this cancerous pink blob once I come home from work.

Srs? You got 8 pages of discussion which is basically community saying it's cancer and Zeb defending it with gimmick arguments. Most of us voiced the opinion in this thread already, I don't feel like repeating myself over and over again.

That's my man Hassan. Diick the quick the Jolt op